Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[fontisian]

I feel that this is not a reaction scum would have. +1



Are you referring to my alignment or my ability as a player?

If the later:
View attachment 311539

If the former, let’s have some analysis to back up that read. Without it, that post is just a whole lotta OMGUS. And also, IS THAT A TOWN CLAIM??? -1



“I’m assuming scum are going to be tempted to join it” reads to me like he is assuming the wagon are townies, and scum are going to be tempted to join the wagon, join implying he thinks scum were not already on the wagon.

He is looking at six people, which includes the three on his wagon. Which if his wagon are townies, they shouldn't be in his scum pool.

Your defense of Eido is noted. -1

It was an explanation of what he thought scum may have done in the past. That includes the people who voted him (well, everyone except gorf, who started the push).

Also, I'm saying I'm so far beneath you I'm above you.

 

[Maven89]

I want to apologize for my absence, I’ve been without a computer since I’ve been staying with my mother following my surgery, I’m back home tomorrow and can actually quote and make legitimate posts. Until then, when retreading I realized Eido’s statements aren’t nearly as scummy as I first thought, it’s actually swapped enough that I consider Eido to be a fairly strong town read. Scum definitely was on that wagon, and if I had to chose one person it would be Bessie. Ask questions if you want about my reads I can pull up quotes and answer them tomorrow

 

[Maven89]

I want to apologize for my absence, I’ve been without a computer since I’ve been staying with my mother following my surgery, I’m back home tomorrow and can actually quote and make legitimate posts. Until then, when retreading I realized Eido’s statements aren’t nearly as scummy as I first thought, it’s actually swapped enough that I consider Eido to be a fairly strong town read. Scum definitely was on that wagon, and if I had to chose one person it would be Bessie. Ask questions if you want about my reads I can pull up quotes and answer them tomorrow

retreading should be re-reading, phone autocorrected

 

[Sabrar]

Until then, when re-reading I realized Eido’s statements aren’t nearly as scummy as I first thought, it’s actually swapped enough that I consider Eido to be a fairly strong town read.

Could you show your progression on this? What did you think was scummy and why, what changed your mind and how is the same content now townie?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ooh that’s a hot take

I’d also like to see what pings you about bessie, perhaps including and excluding her read on eido

 

[Sabrar]

LaserGuy is this a serious meta on somi or an rvs that went nowhere?

LaserGuy voted somi in #59 and hasn't interacted with him again before your question. somi's first post was #78. Why did you think that the vote could be a serious meta?

LaserGuy why did you not point this out in your reply (#159)? You should have been aware that your vote came before somi's first post.

 

[Swiss]

Town
Sabrar
Bessie
Font
Laser
Eido
Somi
Maven89
Wam
Gorf
Swiss

OK so my problem with Eido, other than the obvious, is that were he scum he would likely have tried to get the pressure off his back - as opposed to standing there like a deer in the headlights waiting for the train to hit him.

Eido 6 people are pushing you or made comments about you that you feel negative about. At most 2 of them are scum. Don't you feel the need to reevaluate and try to scumhunt in some way other than OMGUS?

- sabar.

Very fair logic here but you're not involved in the game yet.

My problem with Gorf is he's much less confident this game. His reasoning is all correct, it just doesn't seem to come from the same place as before. But I'm chalking some of this up to him trying to be friendly this game and not how we used to play.

Laser early to townread Eido along with Font (earlier)

Posts like these (and what further ensue on pg4) make me question whether eido is d**b or scum. I think scum would be aware that they’re gonna keep drawing unwanted attention to themselves for asking for links when they got plenty of it already for that. This just doesn’t seem to phase eido... the only problem is he’s a noob so does he realize that this is just gonna keeping twisting the knife in his chest... I ****ing hate reading noobs lmao

+ gord perfect reasoning

#161 Like Laser

fontisian you're not doing much eh? Good insight into other people's work, but where are you scum hunting?

#183 Like Wam

Gorf town.

Lock it in.

fontisian you ask why later, mostly covered this. I'm flip flopping

#186 real font effort good logic + font

#202 Like Maven89


Not colour coordinating reads below as less confident than I was before.
I'll lynch pretty much anyone so whatever wagons starts up first.

Town
Sabrar
Eido
Wam
Laser
Gorf
Maven89
Bessie
Font
Somi
Swiss

 

[Wam]

I meant to say in signups but forgot to say I'm not going to be around much on weekends.

For reference, I went through the beginning of Things to refamiliarize myself with Gorf's scum game, then went through the first few pages of Mafia and Werewolves to note how his town game differed, amd finished up with a reread of this thread.

The biggest difference is stiffness, both in demeanor and read fluidity, though some of that in Things can likely be attributed to his early interactions with a partner. Regardless, there's a looseness in his posting here that comes through in his town game and was absent in his scum game.

Given gorfs acknowledged out of game issues (no laptop) in things how much do you think the play is comparable?

Dude, that's still a stick, just a different one.

Wow, that's a pretty strong read on Eido. I don't disagree with most of your points, but I don't recall you

I think they're pretty inconsequential, so I actually find it kind of strange that bessie assigns negative points to them. What's scummy about saying the default assumption out loud?

So Swiss is happy to lynch, but admits his case would be flimsy and that's town.... how?

Wait, I was doing what? And I didn't even notice? Wow, I'm a mafia god. Seriously though, anyone calling me one of the active players isn't following this game.

QFT, Eido narrowing the scum-pool to those particular players while repeatedly pointing out that the game barely started is some strage logic.
I kind of had the impression that I've seen Eido around here before, but multiple people talk like Eido is new.
Eido How much mafia experience do you have in general and how much of that is forum mafia?

Because he admitted it was flimsy scum are more incentivised to make something up.

somitomi can I get a rough idea of where your head is at?

 

[Eido]

Checking in to say it's busy at work today (end of week and all that). I'm reading the game again and will check in again tonight.

 

[fontisian]

Here Swiss, I'll throw you a bone:
Town
Gorf
Wam
Swiss
Eido

Eido being by far my weakest townread, actually. Reasonably large gap betwen him and you, with you only being tha low because of your expressed scum skill.

You're townread on Laser seems premature, at best, to me. Sure he got there on Eido, whom I've actually gotten less sure on as he's locked it in, but he waffled it at first, saying he thought Eido's questions were kind of pointless iirc (when they clearly weren't to Eido, and that's what matters).

His read on Gorf feels pretty bad. I can see the initial reasoning, becaus Gorf's post aboutthe quickhammer and two nks that laser quoted was over the top. But gorf has since made it clear that he was working off a gut dislike of Eido's tone and approach (likely because Eido had a near identical opening post in Mafia and Werewolves) and then figured out reasoning to explain his feelings. You can see him flesh out his feelings and logic across his posts to and about Eido, and it's self-evidently towny. This is the kind of thing I expect Laser to pick up on, and it's concerning that he has not.

Then there's Laser's Bessie read. Bessie's points are nitpicky and often to logically flawed, as with the Eido point yesterday. She feels like she's looking for reasons to scumread Eido, as opposed to Gorf who scumread Eido and then tried to figure out why. This isn't necessarily damning, it could be a playstyle difference, but it doesn't feel great.

(By the way bessie , the reason you don't get the townclaim thing is that you're viewing it as a performance, something for the town to see, but when i claimed town it wasn't about you. It was about me, my joy at rolling town, and my desire to express that joy.)

Laser townreads her for her interest in the game, and if I tilt my head and squint I can maybe see it. I'll need to look at more games to compare. His townread felt a bit like a wolf bolstering a buddy, but he could be correct on her, even if he is scum. Probably not wrong on her if he's town, but it's early, so his read may yet change.

Tl:dr It wouldn't necessarily surprise me if Laser is town, but he hasn't earned a townread, and while his reads are mostly decent, his deeper thoughtfulness is missing.

Wam Gorf's posting constraints in Things are not really relevant to my read.

 

[fontisian]

*Your townread.

Phoneposting is a nightmare.

 

[fontisian]

Also the team is Somi/Bessie and Somi made a shroop, you heard it here first, folks.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

My problem with Gorf is he's much less confident this game. His reasoning is all correct, it just doesn't seem to come from the same place as before. But I'm chalking some of this up to him trying to be friendly this game and not how we used to play.

this is actually exactly correct. I feel less inclined to be angsty for the sake of being angsty like back in the day, and this is my third proper game back in years (the multiball was my first). I still feel like I got it scumhunting wise, but I’m still sorta feeling out what I think is most effective playstyle wise.

Given gorfs acknowledged out of game issues (no laptop) in things how much do you think the play is comparable?

I saw fonti answers this later so I’ll chime in: I had thought the same thing when I first read that she used meta to come to that, but I actually read that game back after she said that and that was a pretty astute observation.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Game’s moving kinda slow, but I don’t really mind much right now. ToDay I would not yeet Swiss, sabrar, probably fonti, possibly maven if his content goes in the direction I anticipate it to go. Everyone else is still on the table to varying degrees

 

[Eido]

Eido being by far my weakest townread, actually. Reasonably large gap betwen him and you, with you only being tha low because of your expressed scum skill.

This makes me feel good about Fonti.

She reaches out to halt pressure developing on me throughout the game. We see this against Gorf, but also against Bessie, Wam & Sabrar.

Does Scum!Fonti follow all that with ‘actually, he’s a weak Town read now’ ?

I’m leaning no. To me, it looks like she’s thinking and re-evaluating my position in the Town core she plans to build, and looks authentic?

Back to work.

 

[Eido]

Swiss : Are you able to open up about your Fonti, Somi, Bessie & Maven reads?

 

[Sabrar]

She reaches out to halt pressure developing on me throughout the game. We see this against Gorf, but also against Bessie, Wam & Sabrar.

I assume this refers to #189 where fonti replies to a question instead of you. So why don't you answer the follow-up in #191?

 

[Swiss]

Swiss : Are you able to open up about your Fonti, Somi, Bessie & Maven reads?

No I'm not

 

[Sabrar]

Swiss could you please answer #206?

 

[Wam]

I asked font about the meta read as my memory from things was that I called gorf scum early and I'm not getting those vibes this game. So im moving gorf to town.

Town
Swiss
Sabrar
Gorf

Scum wise I'm struggling to look past eido.

Somi needs more content.

Font, laser, maven are all still neutral.

Bessie I'm withholding judgement still.

 

[Swiss]

LaserGuy voted somi in #59 and hasn't interacted with him again before your question. somi's first post was #78. Why did you think that the vote could be a serious meta?

I see someone say meta vote So I ask if it’s serious.

Not sure how else I can explain this one bud

 

[Sabrar]

I'm leaning town on Swiss because he's not reading the thread with the attention that I would expect from scum and he doesn't care. Examples are #57 which is basically the same question I asked in #29 and the answer he gave in #221 which shows he is not keeping track of players and does not check the thread before posting.

I am leaning towards scum on Eido because in my experience a public appeal for validation comes more often from scum than town. And by that I'm referring to the following phrases:

Does that make sense? This is @ everyone.

Do you disagree with anything I've said in that post?

Do you disagree with any players I listed as being potential scum?

Eido btw I'm curious why you haven't replied to #57 or the reminder in #108.

I have town leans on fonti and Gorf but these are mostly due to overall tone and good content, no specific thing stood out for me.

 

[fontisian]

At least Sabrar likes my content.

I will say Eido feels weirdly stiff.

 

[somitomi]

I have always and in every game been suspicious of LAMIST content, things like spontaneous town claims early D1. What’s so townie about having to preemptively claim town?

It's not townie, I very specifically said I'd consider it null. What's so scummy about simply saying "I'm town"?

can I get a rough idea of where your head is at?

Not quite in the game, sadly, I have to read again over the weekend even though I swore I'm gonna stop re-reading the entire thread. At the moment I feel like Eido is the standard new player with a good chance of flipping town and not providing much information, but I've just been burned by this.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

If that’s the only read you have right now, I’d say you probably do need to reread the thread this weekend lol. Out of everyone playing, you and Maven have me equally most starved for content, and considering both of your content I think that’s a worse look for you.

 

[LaserGuy]

Wow, that's a pretty strong read on Eido. I don't disagree with most of your points, but I don't recall you having such a strong scumread so early. Or are the other reads extremely weak?

If you agree with bessie's points, why are you surprised that this read is weak?

Right Brain is stuck in my head so I’m playing as Hari Seldon’s meta. But since I am bessie, I am doing a crappy job and am not being as meticulous with my point system and am using only whole numbers, and I have never been one to focus on content unless it pings me so I’m not going to have as many plus as minus. Also, I am weak on behavior analysis and will never be as good of a player as Hari anyway so I will probably soon go back to being just bessie. +0

I still don't really get from your explanation why you've decided to do this. I feel like you would have understood the potential difficulties and limitations of this system before you started. Why did you feel the need to adopt another player's (alt's) meta?

LaserGuy voted somi in #59 and hasn't interacted with him again before your question. somi's first post was #78. Why did you think that the vote could be a serious meta?

LaserGuy why did you not point this out in your reply (#159)? You should have been aware that your vote came before somi's first post.

I thought it was obvious.

You're townread on Laser seems premature, at best, to me. Sure he got there on Eido, whom I've actually gotten less sure on as he's locked it in, but he waffled it at first, saying he thought Eido's questions were kind of pointless iirc (when they clearly weren't to Eido, and that's what matters).

I don't see how me reconsidering an early ping based on additional content is a bad thing. As it is, when Eido actually provided his explanation for why he felt this information was necessary, that's when I decided he was probably just Town.

His read on Gorf feels pretty bad. I can see the initial reasoning, becaus Gorf's post aboutthe quickhammer and two nks that laser quoted was over the top. But gorf has since made it clear that he was working off a gut dislike of Eido's tone and approach (likely because Eido had a near identical opening post in Mafia and Werewolves) and then figured out reasoning to explain his feelings. You can see him flesh out his feelings and logic across his posts to and about Eido, and it's self-evidently towny. This is the kind of thing I expect Laser to pick up on, and it's concerning that he has not.

I am suspicious of the fact that he claimed he was scumreading Eido for one thing, then retrospectively built his case to be about something different when questioned about it.

Laser townreads her for her interest in the game, and if I tilt my head and squint I can maybe see it. I'll need to look at more games to compare. His townread felt a bit like a wolf bolstering a buddy, but he could be correct on her, even if he is scum. Probably not wrong on her if he's town, but it's early, so his read may yet change.

I didn't really expect you to see it, but I have played many more games with bessie than you have so this is not surprising. On the other hand, I am suspicious of that your immediate inclination is to assign scum-motivation to me making tone/gut/meta reads based on little information, since this is something I do all the time, and I feel like we have played enough together that you should be aware of this is how I like to play.

On balance, your analysis so far feels very hedgy to me. Like you're more interested in trying to keep as many options open as you can for yeeting people, rather than actually trying to sort.

Vote: fonti

 

[LaserGuy]

Also, if fonti is scum, wam is probably the buddy.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I am suspicious of the fact that he claimed he was scumreading Eido for one thing, then retrospectively built his case to be about something different when questioned about it.

you ever just get a vibe and find the best words for it later than you first said it? Like, it was pg 1, it was the end of rvs. I think you’re being disingenuous in how you’re understanding my read on eido. I’m not gonna claim it’s ai, it can be something simple like bias because I got a scumread from it and you got a townread.

 

[bessie]

This is Hoku. He is the second greatest thing ever and I LOVE HIM!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Hi Hoku! Alfredo says hi!

 

[bessie]

dafuq did i just read

Right Brain is Xivii .

Hari Seldon is a player that showed up on xkcd a short time after the Crossover Mafia game (xkcd+Dgames hosted by Marshy). Hari had a very distinct posting style and play style. One of the things he did was he analyzed every post, broke them down and assigned points. He was a brilliant player, and I’ve said before that he did the best behavior-type reads. He only played two games (and had a spectacular win as scum) and disappeared; we pinged him a couple times to join games but he never came back.

A short time after Hari disappeared, Zenii returned (we hadn’t seen him since Crossover) and started playing mafia semi-regularly on xkcd.

COINCIDENCE???

Also, I'm saying I'm so far beneath you I'm above you.

Ok I reread it. I had assumed you were placing my starting point in the deep dark scum void far removed from this physical world, and yourself in the towniness of the exosphere, but I see your explanation. If this was not a town claim, I'll restore a point. +1

I want to apologize for my absence, I’ve been without a computer since I’ve been staying with my mother following my surgery, I’m back home tomorrow and can actually quote and make legitimate posts. Until then, when retreading I realized Eido’s statements aren’t nearly as scummy as I first thought, it’s actually swapped enough that I consider Eido to be a fairly strong town read. Scum definitely was on that wagon, and if I had to chose one person it would be Bessie. Ask questions if you want about my reads I can pull up quotes and answer them tomorrow

Not assigning points to this post, I want to give Maven a chance to properly read the thread, which he obviously can’t do on his phone or he would realize that I’m not even voting. +0

Off topic: Maven, good to hear you are doing better and will be going home this weekend.

OK so my problem with Eido, other than the obvious, is that were he scum he would likely have tried to get the pressure off his back - as opposed to standing there like a deer in the headlights waiting for the train to hit him.

I'm curious, how do you think a scum!Eido would do that, in a way that is different than what he is doing now? +0

Here Swiss, I'll throw you a bone:
Town
Gorf
Wam
Swiss
Eido

I like reads posts. +1

My issue with this post is the implication that you’re doing something above and beyond in giving us some reads. Why “throw us a bone”? Shouldn’t reads and analysis be part of the game and not a favor that must be requested? -1

You're townread on Laser seems premature, at best, to me. Sure he got there on Eido, whom I've actually gotten less sure on as he's locked it in, but he waffled it at first, saying he thought Eido's questions were kind of pointless iirc (when they clearly weren't to Eido, and that's what matters).

Interesting that you accuse LaserGuy of waffling and in the same sentence… -1

Then there's Laser's Bessie read. Bessie's points are nitpicky and often to logically flawed, as with the Eido point yesterday. She feels like she's looking for reasons to scumread Eido, as opposed to Gorf who scumread Eido and then tried to figure out why. This isn't necessarily damning, it could be a playstyle difference, but it doesn't feel great.

Yes, I’m a passive-agressive self-proclaimed nitpicky tunneler. But my logic is sound, you claiming otherwise does not make it so. I have addressed your defense of Eido over this point in #200 and if you still disagree, you should address that post directly and point out the “flaws” (if indeed you can) instead of just alluding to it and labeling me flawed. And I do not (and do not need to) look for reasons to scumread anyone. I am very open about my style. I read every post in the thread in order, and comment on things that ping me or are otherwise noteworthy, starting where I left off previously, usually once per day. And I post all these comments in order, and in one long post, so that everyone can follow my thought progression. On weekends when I have more time, I compile all my thoughts and do my analysis on the thread content as a whole. If I am scumreading someone, it is because that is where the content is leading me, not because I am seeking out reasons. -1

(By the way bessie , the reason you don't get the townclaim thing is that you're viewing it as a performance, something for the town to see, but when i claimed town it wasn't about you. It was about me, my joy at rolling town, and my desire to express that joy.)

As an observer to the content in the thread, I view it all as a performance and as fair game for analysis. If content is not for players to read, what is it for? -1

Laser townreads her for her interest in the game, and if I tilt my head and squint I can maybe see it. I'll need to look at more games to compare. His townread felt a bit like a wolf bolstering a buddy, but he could be correct on her, even if he is scum. Probably not wrong on her if he's town, but it's early, so his read may yet change.

References provided upon request. +0

Also the team is Somi/Bessie and Somi made a shroop, you heard it here first, folks.

Cool I might start quoting this at the start of every post I make so that no one forgets. +0

This makes me feel good about Fonti.

She reaches out to halt pressure developing on me throughout the game. We see this against Gorf, but also against Bessie, Wam & Sabrar.

Does Scum!Fonti follow all that with ‘actually, he’s a weak Town read now’ ?

I’m leaning no. To me, it looks like she’s thinking and re-evaluating my position in the Town core she plans to build, and looks authentic?

Interesting. To me it looks like she’s trying to alleviate pressure on a partner. -1

I assume this refers to #189 where fonti replies to a question instead of you. So why don't you answer the follow-up in #191?

Just noting this because I want to assign a point. +1

At least Sabrar likes my content.

I will say Eido feels weirdly stiff.

I like your content, I would just like to see more. +0
Oh, and nice waffle. -1

It's not townie, I very specifically said I'd consider it null. What's so scummy about simply saying "I'm town"?

Hmm. I’ll let you think about it. +0

I still don't really get from your explanation why you've decided to do this. I feel like you would have understood the potential difficulties and limitations of this system before you started. Why did you feel the need to adopt another player's (alt's) meta?

I do sporadically use +1/-1 notation in my notes, but in general, the content level in games on this forum is too high for me to utilize it properly and actually calculate a meaningful score. I was going to link you to this post as an example because I know I did some for that game, but the notes with the points must have been later in the game and stayed in hydra chat. +0

I didn’t recognize how skewed the numbers would be until I added them up in #102 . But playing as someone else’s meta amuses me, and I do it occasionally . I remember playing one game as Sabrar and the content level required to be Sabrar almost destroyed me. +0

And I'm continuing it for a little while longer because it seems to be drawing some interesting reactions. +0

And I like the rest of your post. +1

#HBC | Gorf Alfredo is freaking adorable and has awesome eyes and gets a bonus point. +1



Eido -13-1 => -14
Fontisian -3-2+1-4 => -8
Gorf +1+1+1 => +3
LaserGuy 0+1 => +1
Maven89 +1+0 => +1
Sabrar +3+1 => +4
Somitomi 0+0 => 0
Swiss +2+0 => +2
Wam -2+0 => -2

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Sure sounds like zen

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Am I missing something with fonti? I know that she’s part of the xkcd folk, I’m wondering if I’m reading her as town for something that you guys (looking at Bessie, laser, maybe sabrar but I can’t exactly recall, I vaguely remember one other person sussing her) might read as AI or even scummy with her meta considered.

 

[fontisian]

Save me from long posts.

Ok I reread it. I had assumed you were placing my starting point in the deep dark scum void far removed from this physical world, and yourself in the towniness of the exosphere, but I see your explanation. If this was not a town claim, I'll restore a point. +1

It was a joke about what level we're playing the game at, meant to be a little bit self-deprecating.

I like reads posts. +1

My issue with this post is the implication that you’re doing something above and beyond in giving us some reads. Why “throw us a bone”? Shouldn’t reads and analysis be part of the game and not a favor that must be requested? -1

We've talked about this before. I don't like fleshing out my reads in the thread early on Day 1, especially regarding stronger players. But one of my townreads was apparently scumreading me for a "lack of content" and other people were talking about it, which meant in order to meet my responsibilities I needed to share more thoughts.

Interesting that you accuse LaserGuy of waffling and in the same sentence… -1

Nuance is not the same thing as waffling. And I don't have an issue with waffling specifically, from Laser or anyone else. I dislike that Laser's Eido townread as gotten stronger as mine has gotten weaker. I do not scumread Laser at this time, I'm still mulling it over.

Yes, I’m a passive-agressive self-proclaimed nitpicky tunneler. But my logic is sound, you claiming otherwise does not make it so. I have addressed your defense of Eido over this point in #200 and if you still disagree, you should address that post directly and point out the “flaws” (if indeed you can) instead of just alluding to it and labeling me flawed. And I do not (and do not need to) look for reasons to scumread anyone. I am very open about my style. I read every post in the thread in order, and comment on things that ping me or are otherwise noteworthy, starting where I left off previously, usually once per day. And I post all these comments in order, and in one long post, so that everyone can follow my thought progression. On weekends when I have more time, I compile all my thoughts and do my analysis on the thread content as a whole. If I am scumreading someone, it is because that is where the content is leading me, not because I am seeking out reasons. -1

I responded to your #200 post in #201.

I understand your style, yes. I think it is flawed, not wolfy, because you miss the forest for the trees. I think you arrived in the high negatives for Eido because you were more critical and nitpicky of his posts than you were of similar issues from other people.

As an observer to the content in the thread, I view it all as a performance and as fair game for analysis. If content is not for players to read, what is it for? -1

To have fun.

References provided upon request. +0

That would be lovely, thank you. More recent games are preferable if possible.

Interesting. To me it looks like she’s trying to alleviate pressure on a partner. -1

Bruh, if Eido is town he obviously knows I'm not his partner. The -1 on this should be because it's just kind of weird? Like, it's a statement, but it doesn't dig into my mindset at all, and it isn't paranoid that I'm trying to pocket him, which he has been very worried about previously.

I like your content, I would just like to see more. +0
Oh, and nice waffle. -1

Again, there's a difference between waffling and nuance, and waffling itself is not wolfy, it's honest. I've explained that my townread of Eido has steadily gone downhill as he hasn't really defended himself and gone looking for other reads. The stiffness is part of that.

 

[fontisian]

Am I missing something with fonti? I know that she’s part of the xkcd folk, I’m wondering if I’m reading her as town for something that you guys (looking at Bessie, laser, maybe sabrar but I can’t exactly recall, I vaguely remember one other person sussing her) might read as AI or even scummy with her meta considered.

I'm not from xkcd, I popped in from mtgs at the request of Osie as a replacement, liked you guys, then stuck around.

I think you're thinking of Swiss, not Sabrar.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I know Swiss isn’t mtgs, and that does clear up that they wouldn’t know you like that. I’d still like to know if I’m missing something from their pov though

 

[fontisian]

I don't see how me reconsidering an early ping based on additional content is a bad thing. As it is, when Eido actually provided his explanation for why he felt this information was necessary, that's when I decided he was probably just Town.

Ah, ****, there was a whole bunch of context missing from that. My bad. I was phoneposting and it's been a very ****ty day.

The full thing was that it's ok that you came to a stronger conclusion on Eido there, because imo one of your strengths is finding towniness from newbie perspective. I didn't like how your read shifted overall: i.e. weaker than mine to start, ramping up, and now much stronger than what mine is now. You read Eido more strongly town as he was doing less towny things: not really considering what I tried to point him towards, not feeling paranoid, not really assessing anyone or looking for reads.

[quote[I am suspicious of the fact that he claimed he was scumreading Eido for one thing, then retrospectively built his case to be about something different when questioned about it.[/quote]
I think Gorf didn't understand his own suspicious when he made the case, he had a feeling he disliked Eido and so he attacked him, and in the process of attacking Eido he figured out why he was initially pinged. That process is very hard for scum to fake. I don't understand why it's something that bothers you.

I didn't really expect you to see it, but I have played many more games with bessie than you have so this is not surprising. On the other hand, I am suspicious of that your immediate inclination is to assign scum-motivation to me making tone/gut/meta reads based on little information, since this is something I do all the time, and I feel like we have played enough together that you should be aware of this is how I like to play.

I don't have a problem with you making tone/gut/meta reads, and don't believe I have stated suspicion based on that. I'm guessing you got it from the truncated Eido thing, but I you stated I went after you on multiple reads for that, and I don't see how anything other than the Eido bit could be interpreted that way. I also expect you to read bessie better than I do, obviously. My problem is how and when you made those reads not matching up with how I saw things, as when we've been more in sync when you're town and less in sync when one of us is scum.

On balance, your analysis so far feels very hedgy to me. Like you're more interested in trying to keep as many options open as you can for yeeting people, rather than actually trying to sort.

Vote: fonti

Show your work.

 

[fontisian]

Hmm, no, two more things.

1.The idea that I would possibly treat a scummate like I've treated Wam this game is actually kind of insulting.

2. " On balance, your analysis so far feels very hedgy to me. Like you're more interested in trying to keep as many options open as you can for yeeting people, rather than actually trying to sort."

*****, I have been going out my way to shut down bad yeets. Eido is drowning under pressure? I townread him. People are starting to turn on Gorf? Townread for him too. Eido and Gorf are still fighting? I try to give them a framework so they can get to better reads on each other. Wam's an easy misyeet pretty much every game? Sure, I'll share a townread there too. I'm not really townreading Eido that much but he's still getting an overwhelming number of questions, some of which are pointless? I'll volley the pointless ones for him and try to give him a little bit of breathing room. I don't talk about my suspicions as they build until I need to flesh out my views to keep my own position viable, because the extra pressure on Eido won't be helpful. You're hard townreading Eido, you should be seeing how much I have adjusted to help town!him dig his way out of this.

I'm not attacking or defending Somi, who has a high chance of ending up as the yeet Today if Eido recovers because I want to see what he'll do. I'm no defending Maven because my read on him is going to depend on what /he chooses to do/ when he comes back. The places they go and how they use their time will let me read them, and interfering now, when I want to see what they choose, how they spend their limited time the thread. The notes they don't play.

Town!you has understood this in the past, you got that I defend people in proportion to my townreads on them and to the extent I think is useful. You got that I give people rope to either defend on hang themselves with.

 

[Sabrar]

bessie's link led me to reread Witchhunt for a bit. Here is a similar appeal for validation from scum.

 

[Wam]

*****, I have been going out my way to shut down bad yeets. Eido is drowning under pressure? I townread him. People are starting to turn on Gorf? Townread for him too. Eido and Gorf are still fighting? I try to give them a framework so they can get to better reads on each other. Wam's an easy misyeet pretty much every game? Sure, I'll share a townread there too. I'm not really townreading Eido that much but he's still getting an overwhelming number of questions, some of which are pointless? I'll volley the pointless ones for him and try to give him a little bit of breathing room. I don't talk about my suspicions as they build until I need to flesh out my views to keep my own position viable, because the extra pressure on Eido won't be helpful. You're hard townreading Eido, you should be seeing how much I have adjusted to help town!him dig his way out of this.

This paragraph is very weird to me. Far too confident in knowing what are good and bad yeets .