Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Wam]

Eido is asking questions for the sake of questions

I agree, I'm going to sheep swiss here

Vote eido

On a play style perspective this looks like swiss normally does but I haven't seen scum swiss play.

I don’t see Wam as being scummy for pointing out Swiss is at L-2, but it’s definitely odd he pointed it out and gave everyone a warning, but didn’t think to unvote to prevent it. Definitely noted.

Eido seems focused on giving people bizarre homework and it comes off like forced content. Not a fan.

Swiss can be considered a slight town read due to him driving content but it’s too early to say he’s town.

No one else has caught my attention.

L-2 at rvs not too bad, more than that would be worrying hence no unvote.

then do it you *****

Offer a carrot not a stick. #HBC | Gorf if you do it we wont lynch you day 1.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

LaserGuy phoneposting but in short, the difference in tone. Wam and sabrar were fairly tongue in cheek through it all whereas eido went on to start the game more formally. There was a sort of cognitive dissonance there where there wasn’t with the others

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v1.1

Eido (3): Gorf, Swiss, Wam
Swiss (1): Eido
Somitomi (1): Laserguy

Not Voting: Bessie, Sabrar, Maven, Fontisian, Somitomi

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to eliminate!

 

[fontisian]

I have been blessed with a town roll and for this I am grateful.

 

[Eido]

Alright, let’s start here:

Eido who is scummiest right now, in your opinion? And why?

I’m not sure right now.

If it's not one of the vocal players (Gorf or Swiss), it's one of the players on the side of the discussion using it as leverage. Somitomi / Wam? I'll post some reasons next.

 

[fontisian]

Is this a good time to townread eido or should I keep that as a fun surprise for mid-Day?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Is this a good time to townread eido or should I keep that as a fun surprise for mid-Day?

i guess we’ll find out another Day

 

[fontisian]

Oh no Gorf are you scum

Yo, Swiss, was this all joke or was there something that actually pinged you from Gorf?

 

[Eido]

Alright, about Gorf's scum tell.

It's bad.

I have never seen Scum make quick-hammer plays like he's suggesting as early as Page 1. I'm sure it's happened, but I've never seen it happen.

Why is it unreasonable of me to see examples of this in action? Keep in mind this is my 3rd game.

Gorf says I was too 'comfortable' placing Swiss at L-2, and that quick-hammer situations have happened in the past.

I need an example to be able to measure what Gorf is saying is coming from some form of reality/experience, or if he's exaggerating certain aspects instead for the sake of pushing on me.

Does that make sense? This is @ everyone.

 

[Eido]

Swiss' push feels more reasonable here because I've yet to build much of a character profile on DGames. Ya, I guess I do ask a lot of questions.

I need to think about this more.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I didn’t say it was scum making a quick hammer play. It’d be a joke that went too far, and we’d be left in D2 with diddly for info.

I don’t think it’s “unreasonable” to want to see what that might look like, but I also don’t think it’s reasonable to expect me to pull a game out with that in it and continue to push the point when I’ve already told you you’re not going to get that from me.

Alright, about Gorf's scum tell.

It's bad.

also I expected you to explain why I’m scummy after this. Since you didn’t, can you clarify what you mean by this?

 

[Eido]

I agree, I'm going to sheep swiss here

Vote eido

On a play style perspective this looks like swiss normally does but I haven't seen scum swiss play.

This vote looks opportunistic.

Have any particular questions of mine pinged you?

 

[fontisian]

Swiss' push feels more reasonable here because I've yet to build much of a character profile on DGames. Ya, I guess I do ask a lot of questions.

I need to think about this more.

Quickhammers in rvs are very, very rare outside of irl games. I don't remember if I've even seen one in my 100s of games.

Something to consider here: Is the reasonableness of a push an accurate way to measure the towniness of the person pushing it?

 

[fontisian]

I didn’t say it was scum making a quick hammer play. It’d be a joke that went too far, and we’d be left in D2 with diddly for info.

I don’t think it’s “unreasonable” to want to see what that might look like, but I also don’t think it’s reasonable to expect me to pull a game out with that in it and continue to push the point when I’ve already told you you’re not going to get that from me.




also I expected you to explain why I’m scummy after this. Since you didn’t, can you clarify what you mean by this?

Gorf, is it fair to say that your initial suspicion of Eido came from his less jokey tone while he was joining a joke wagon, instead of the vote itself?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gorf, is it fair to say that your initial suspicion of Eido came from his less jokey tone while he was joining a joke wagon, instead of the vote itself?

Yea

 

[fontisian]

I agree, I'm going to sheep swiss here

Vote eido

On a play style perspective this looks like swiss normally does but I haven't seen scum swiss play.

Ooh, this one is fun. I'm glad Eido quoted it.

Wam doing a thing here where he jumps to the next question, instead of focusing on the original one. He already knows he agrees with Swiss's point, so instead of investigating that he's trying to figure out if Swiss is manipulating him.

Is that towny? I lean towards yes, tempered by the fact that it's been a minute since I've thought about Wam and I don't understand him all that well.

 

[fontisian]

Yea

Yeah, you and Eido are talking past each other. He thinks it's just the l-2 thing, because that what you emphasized more originally. I'm guessing you hadn't fully fleshed out what you were thinking about him at the beginning of your case, and you didn't communicate it as well as you could have.

 

[Eido]

Something to consider here: Is the reasonableness of a push an accurate way to measure the towniness of the person pushing it?

Having a good think on this. It's pretty deep.

Have you given it any thought yourself? In relation to some of the more vocal pushes from Gorf/Swiss?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yeah, you and Eido are talking past each other. He thinks it's just the l-2 thing, because that what you emphasized more originally. I'm guessing you hadn't fully fleshed out what you were thinking about him at the beginning of your case, and you didn't communicate it as well as you could have.

I can agree with that, but it doesn’t really change my own outlook on his play then or from then.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I think it’s less about you actually putting him at L-2 and more about your parking your vote on him at L-2 and proverbially twiddling your thumbs afterwards

Like I know I said it lol, it was more do to with his behavior while on the wagon in pg 1 than his actual vote. I wonder why he didn’t/hasn’t looked into this and instead focuses on citations.

 

[Sabrar]

This feels like a bit of an overreaction to an RVS wagon. Not liking Gorf atm.

But why would scum!Gorf overreact if the wagon were on a townie?

 

[bessie]

I’m here! Like usual I don’t play during work hours. We’re having sort of an emergency at work this week so my hours will be longer than usual. I will keep up with the thread and be on line around this time every night, but most of my analysis will have to wait for the weekend.

Vote: Swiss

No, I'm not holding grudges, why do you ask.

Interesting, not the content I would have expected from your opening, but it is right on schedule. +1

Swiss' mind was racing.

On the one hand, saying he wasn't doc was a masterstroke, hiding his true power role. Yet on the other, the smaller minded townies might suspect him for being so open. A pickle, to be sure.

He eyed the player base thoughtfully, weighing up the names and stigmas attached to them, rolling their names across his tongue like boiled sweets.

Yes, he thought, as he saw Maven89, this would work nicely.

I don’t trust D1 town claims. -1

Sabrar Wam Swiss

Can you give me a rundown of who you know well in this playerlist?

Why these players? +0

First cracks in the swiss wall as the pressure builds?

We are at L-2 just so no one can accidentally hammer swiss.

If you were worried enough to make a post warning of an accidental hammer, you could have done something to prevent it. -1

And there's the scumtell

+1

I thought we might make it to page 2 before this . Also last time I played with font they did a tunnel on me that reminded me of your tunnels sabrar. Maybe you should team up?

Nope, you know better and should have expected this in Sabrar’s first post, so I think this post is just noise. -1

I'm picking up that Wam is uptight in #13 and maybe #24.

Waiting for more people to post.


What gave you this impression?

Noise. -1

It's a response to Swiss. Waiting on all players to post so I can get a better sense of the game before judging Wam on his opening.

Why would you need more players to post, or even more content from Wam, to judge Wam on his opening? -2

shooting ranmaru is always pro town

vote: eido

not rvs

protip eido: actually interact with your scummate this game so that it’s not baby easy to find them after you flip red

I like this post. +1

Sound advice. If only I had a scummate.

Wine. -1

Yo, find me an example. Or reach out to someone who can.

Otherwise I have to think about you making this up.

Dislike. It’s valid to ask for an example, and you van be suspicious of Gorf if he doesn’t provide a satisfactory explanation. However, you, as a new player, shouldn’t be discarding any theory so quickly. -2

Do you have an example of a page 1 quick-lynch? Does it happen often enough?

I would like to read in to it.

I feel that this line of questioning has evolved to the active lurking level. -1

Conversation starter for me. I wanted a refresher on who knows who. The more familiar I feel with players, the less I'll ask this.

Then why did you only question three players? -1

Eido is asking questions for the sake of questions

+1

I don’t see Wam as being scummy for pointing out Swiss is at L-2, but it’s definitely odd he pointed it out and gave everyone a warning, but didn’t think to unvote to prevent it. Definitely noted.

Eido seems focused on giving people bizarre homework and it comes off like forced content. Not a fan.

Swiss can be considered a slight town read due to him driving content but it’s too early to say he’s town.

No one else has caught my attention.

+1

I have been blessed with a town roll and for this I am grateful.

And… I still don’t trust D1 town claims. -1

Alright, about Gorf's scum tell.

It's bad.

I have never seen Scum make quick-hammer plays like he's suggesting as early as Page 1. I'm sure it's happened, but I've never seen it happen.

Why is it unreasonable of me to see examples of this in action? Keep in mind this is my 3rd game.

Gorf says I was too 'comfortable' placing Swiss at L-2, and that quick-hammer situations have happened in the past.

I need an example to be able to measure what Gorf is saying is coming from some form of reality/experience, or if he's exaggerating certain aspects instead for the sake of pushing on me.

Does that make sense? This is @ everyone.

No, it doesn’t. You are scum reading Gorf for something that you’ve never seen happen, while acknowledging that you’re sure it’s happened even thou you’ve never seen it happen. And while it’s not unreasonable to ask to see examples, it’s suspicious to continue to focus on this and this only. -2

Note to Sabrar or LaserGuy: I think I do have an example, but I’m not remembering the game. Do you remember anything? If so I can check the archive, but since it’s not easily searchable I need a starting point.


Eido -10
Fontisian -1
Gorf +1
LaserGuy +0
Maven89 +1
Sabrar +1
somitomi +0
Swiss +1
Wam -2

 

[Sabrar]

Note to Sabrar or LaserGuy: I think I do have an example, but I’m not remembering the game. Do you remember anything? If so I can check the archive, but since it’s not easily searchable I need a starting point.

I'm pretty sure there was no accidental hammer during RVS on xkcd while I was playing so maybe it was before my time. I know there was an accidental hammer in Dark Tower by SDK but that was D2 or D3 I believe.

 

[bessie]

You're posting early. +1

 

[fontisian]

The lack of Xivii in this game is a blight upon my soul.

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy phoneposting but in short, the difference in tone. Wam and sabrar were fairly tongue in cheek through it all whereas eido went on to start the game more formally. There was a sort of cognitive dissonance there where there wasn’t with the others

I don't really understand how this follows from what you wrote earlier:

You’re very comfortable for a guy who parked his vote on a wagon at L-2 with less than a page into the game

I think it’s less about you actually putting him at L-2 and more about your parking your vote on him at L-2 and proverbially twiddling your thumbs afterwards

But why would scum!Gorf overreact if the wagon were on a townie?

I don't know that I can assign a specific motivation to why he would do it, though I could probably speculate on several. It's just something that pinged me as off.

Note to Sabrar or LaserGuy: I think I do have an example, but I’m not remembering the game. Do you remember anything? If so I can check the archive, but since it’s not easily searchable I need a starting point.

I have a vague recollection that maybe there was some game where there was an accidental hammer during an EoD scramble, but that's all that's coming to mind... nothing early in a game for sure. I haven't seen it happen, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is has happened Mafiascum before. The meta there is very trollish and back when I played there I saw a number of L-1 wagons early on D1.

Any particular reason you've decided to do points this game? I don't recall you ever doing this before.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I don't really understand how this follows from what you wrote earlier:

If not, what do you understand my reasoning was from that? Yea, to a degree I was being intentionally vague in saying that but it seems clear to me that my issue was with his demeanor while on the wagon. It was also meant to further my read on him, which it did. I’ll save full on casings for later in the game.

 

[Swiss]

#42 talks about why you voted me.

I want to know how you've reached the conclusion Swiss is Town. Can you walk me through that?

I have other questions, but let's start here.

This cockiness reads townie. Completely unaware to how much he's failing to understand, still thinks he's the interrogator.

Yo, find me an example. Or reach out to someone who can.

Otherwise I have to think about you making this up.

Unnecessary conflict. Poor play, but is it scummy

Why do you need other people to post before you can have an opinion?

Eido you failed to respond to this

Why is an accidental hammer impossible to you?

and this

LaserGuy is this a serious meta on somi or an rvs that went nowhere?

I do not

Now please explain why this means my accidental lynch when I got to l-2 was impossible

Eido AND this

I have been blessed with a town roll and for this I am grateful.

townlean font for this. I felt the exact same

Alright, let’s start here:



I’m not sure right now.

If it's not one of the vocal players (Gorf or Swiss), it's one of the players on the side of the discussion using it as leverage. Somitomi / Wam? I'll post some reasons next.

You've listed the active lobby, I expect reasoning

#86 + font for townreading eido

#88 fontisian Gorf's #70 read scummy to me

Alright, about Gorf's scum tell.

It's bad.

I have never seen Scum make quick-hammer plays like he's suggesting as early as Page 1. I'm sure it's happened, but I've never seen it happen.

Why is it unreasonable of me to see examples of this in action? Keep in mind this is my 3rd game.

Gorf says I was too 'comfortable' placing Swiss at L-2, and that quick-hammer situations have happened in the past.

I need an example to be able to measure what Gorf is saying is coming from some form of reality/experience, or if he's exaggerating certain aspects instead for the sake of pushing on me.

Does that make sense? This is @ everyone.

Poor reasoning

This vote looks opportunistic.

Have any particular questions of mine pinged you?

Big dislike on calling any vote on himself opportunistic at this point.

1.) Swiss - werewolf
2.) Laserguy null
3.) Bessie townlean
4.) Sabrar townlean
5.) Wam nullscum
6.) Maven89 nullscum
7.) Fontisian townlean
8.) Eido i want to say dumbtown but not sure
9.) Somitomi - null
10.) Gorf - nullscum

 

[Swiss]

Town
Sabrar
Bessie
Font
Laser
Somi
Maven89
Wam
Gorf
Swiss

 

[Swiss]

Eido white also

 

[Sabrar]

6.) Maven89 nullscum

Could you explain why?

 

[Swiss]

^ I mean he just of kind of is, isn't he

 

[Wam]

I have been blessed with a town roll and for this I am grateful.

I'm with bessie on scepticism of day 1 town claims.

This vote looks opportunistic.

Have any particular questions of mine pinged you?

How is it opportunistic? What would I gain if it was opportunistic?

Eido white also

Swiss missed eido out his reads list they must be partners /s

Swiss I'm not seeing the gorf case what am I missing.

Eido and bessie have vague memories of someone accidentally hammering but couldnt give a game. Someone also fake accidentally hammered a very long time in the past. I think when is started playing.

Off topic
Hope you fix your emergency Bessie.

 

[Swiss]

I can't make a case yet as he hasn't done enough.

I'd be happy to lynch, but not gonna make a case yet as it'll be flimsy.

 

[Eido]

Greetings.

Reading through.

 

[Wam]

I can't make a case yet as he hasn't done enough.

I'd be happy to lynch, but not gonna make a case yet as it'll be flimsy.

This makes me think swiss is town. Scum swiss probably makes a case up here.

 

[Wam]

Below is where my heads at currently.

Town
Sabrar
Swiss

Unknown
Laser
Bessie
Font
Maven
Gorf
Somi

Scum
Eido

 

[Eido]

Swiss

The biggest clue to me right now lies in those leveraging the momentum Gorf created to build a wagon. This means in the region of the following players:

Yourself / Somitomi / Maven / Wam / And now Bessie.

There's a real temptation to build or follow wagons on a Townie because Scum get 3 potential kills. I expect there to be some temptation in hopping on my wagon then. I'm also forced to think about Gorf making up his scum tell to push, and what that means.

Talk to me about Gorf, please. You know him well. Does he usually open up games like this?

Aaaaaaand

I'm going there......

You got a link to a game where was scum? I'd honestly like to read in to it. Just link me and say nothing else.

 

[Eido]

Wam That should answer your question too.

 

[Swiss]

Eido you haven't actually done anything.

Was this your catch up?

What actual opinions do you hold?