Dec 27 [Critique] Marth V. Meta

[DehNutCase]

I was bored so decided to play a few rounds versus a CPU meta that fights basically the same as I do but with better reflexes. (I'm the only one who plays metaknight in my gaming group so the exp gain thing copied most of my habits. Of course, the CPU is still completely ******** (******** stupid, not retardedly gay) offstage, though it could edge guard a little.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mina4vPJ6EI

This was the only video that wasn't badly desynched, (merely ehhhly desynched, just ignore the end) though the replays work perfectly on my wii, the emulated replays desynch quite quickly, gonna go get a few replays vs fox later when a friend comes over.

Since it's quite a short replay, I suppose a general critique of why I'm playing the match up ******** is impossible, so just pointing out the specific ******** stuff I do and I'll be gratefull. Could also be usefull to point out the things I should have the MK do, so I can make it do that, but the CPU has already advanced a bit past this replay, hence the desynch.

Edit: Turns out the desynching problem probably isn't CPU, as it happens in my matches with my friends too, so I guess it's probably knockback related.

http://youtu.be/B9P_VQ6KAuU
is the only one of the replays that actully managed not to get desynched which I had versus my fox friend. As might be obvious, I have no idea how to deal with the dodge roll, so help would be appreciated on that respect. ... and various other things such as getting rid of RCO lag safely rather than doing it by eating a Usmash.

and

http://youtu.be/tTWMoyJI58k
is the least desynched out of all my matches with his metaknight, which I asked him to play, which is around the level of the level 9 CPU :S, what should've happened at the end was the last dsmash that looks like I whiffed, it tippered him at the other end of yoshi's island, and killed him. For this critiques on both my play and his will be usefull, critique on his would be more usefull since then I'd have to adapt, or get my butt handed to me on a silver platter, easier to use moves learned by muscle memory rather than the regular kind of rememberance? recall? rationaly? reasoning? *shrugg*

 

[Shaya]

Try to mix things up beyond landing into dtilts (its setting you up for Bad DI). A lot of the situations you're using dtilt, dancing blade would have been stronger (esp with breverse stutter steps / beating the cpu spot dodge)
You need to work on your spacing quite a bit. Try focussing on SWORD AHEAD OF THE BODY, ALWAYS.

After hitting someone with dtilt, you shouldn't jump, like @ 0.23. Dtilt follows up into dash / walk / db pressure, your MK CPU just dashed forward and nair'd you due to the awkward jump you did. Pay attention to those awkward jumps.

Sword before body > 0.30, 0.39, 0.46, 0.49, 0.51, 0.57 (although you didnt swing), 1.10, 1.18, 1.30, 1,34
very stupid dtilts > 0.54, 1.41
stupid landing positions you choose > 1.12, 1.36

CPU's aren't going to assist you with your spacing.

On the talk of CPUs though, my MK cpu copies M2K a bit.
Forward roll into DESTROY ME at every opportunity.

 

[DehNutCase]

what's a breverse stutterstep? Sounds like I first tap the control stick in the opposite direction to the one I'm facing and then I do a DB in the same direction as I was facing when I first tapped the control stick. Does it extend the range of DB or something? Or is it a wavebounceish thing?

 

[Shaya]

It just allows you to easily respace yourself to maximum sword range from the ground in a very quick/efficient manner.

The way you describe it sounds right

dash <, db >

If you try to dancing blade after your initial dash (as in, your running state) you need to properly b reverse dancing blade by db opposite direction then intended direction within 3 frames.

 

[DehNutCase]

http://youtu.be/lv5R_N9uJls

Disclamer: Can skip next paragraph, it's simply boring backstory
Well, after practicing Marth's forward air for 5 hours versus the Metaknight CPU (because, and I quote: "CPU's aren't going to assist you with your spacing.") I rigged to only forward air and back air, my spacing may or may not have gotten better. (Could just be I never bothered to space, but now am actively trying to space that damn aerial.) Sadly, this was the only one of the five replays that survived confrontation with the enemy. There was a somewhat funny one where I failed every single grab release follow up except the 5 or so that I followed up with ... forward air.

So yeah, is there anything else that I obviously need to work on by whacking a computer for 5 hours? (And no I'm not going to learn to space my back air to beat meta's even though the range probably goes meta fair < marth fair < meta bair < marth bair)

 

[Shaya]

You've got a long way to go, is all I can say. you need to find ways to play real people.

You started using ftilt in that video, and I'd say every time you forward tilted it was a bad move set decision.

-

I suppose my definition of spacing goes a bit further than how you interpret it. CPUs can teach you how to tipper moves, but high level spacing (which involves really precise movements for evasive + approaching purposes, and not necessarily meaning being at tipper range [although that's the general rule of thumb].

Anyway, for the most part, the marth boards avoids critiquing CPU matches for this very reason.

 

[DehNutCase]

concurrent edit w/ x3: could just skip down to the edit x3 for the most recent replays I have, I realize I have a propensity to be rather loquacious :S.

In that case, can you take a look at the second link of the first post, errm, the one that was under the first link which is now is an embeded video for some reason? It was the only replay I played against my friends fox that wasn't desynched by the second stock, and while I know NOW I'm supposed to just DB or down smash to punish his rolls through me, I supposed it would still be a somewhat accurate representation of my current skill level with marth. I had the match the same day as the first video and updated the first post right after your first reply.

Edit: and of course I now know to cancle most of the RCO lag with an auto cancled Uair so I don't have to wait half a second to shield.

Edit x2: Maybe what I should do rather than hanging around in the air is to simply bum rush fox by dashing at him on the ground and then punishing his reaction? (Id est, he jumps, I follow and Fair him off the stage, he shield, I grab and throw him off the stage, dodge/dodge roll I DB him since it's possible to do it out of a dash, is there any obvious way I'm missing to stop something like that?)

Edit X3: Well, I managed to fixed the replay desynch problem (which was what was preventing me from uploading the ones versus my friend, not the fact that I don't have anyone to brawl with, haha) so now I picked the 3 most recent matches I had versus my friend who uses fox, the first two are his fox, the third is his Ike:

Fox:
http://youtu.be/H0Ck8XVaEt0
http://youtu.be/hg5OcA2nPlM
Ike:
http://youtu.be/KfCro-IL3ms