Death Note Mafia - Post-Game

[#HBC | Mac]

in retrospect Kyryk not dying should have been a huge red flag

 

[adumbrodeus]

Basically even with you at that point there were too many things distracting everyone else and no clear smoking gun that we could use to make something happen.

 

[ranmaru]

What does smoking gun mean again? Like a signal or something really scummy to react to?

 

[ranmaru]

Never lynching a single town

Scum lunch daily

We must pull such a perfect game once more

It's simple.

We shall both be obv town in thread.

Then we'll stomp the scum by doing a voting bloc

 

[adumbrodeus]

in retrospect Kyryk not dying should have been a huge red flag

Well I did point it out, but there were mechanical externalities, scum had the possibility to delay the kill after all and the possibility that he would waste a lynch was a decent reason.

What does smoking gun mean again? Like a signal or something really scummy to react to?

Basically, it was little things that really bugged us in particular, nothing that we could use to say that he was clearly scum that would resonate with town. He was compromise lynch status at best and that's the fruit of really short days.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

in retrospect Kyryk not dying should have been a huge red flag

I'm mostly just confused why they weren't writing down names every chance they got, even if they weren't 100% confident it was an actual match.

I'd have been deleting townies as much as possible...

 

[ranmaru]

Basically, it was little things that really bugged us in particular, nothing that we could use to say that he was clearly scum that would resonate with town. He was compromise lynch status at best and that's the fruit of really short days.

Ohhh, true yeah. Need to poke them more. But they all replaced out man. ;-;

I'm mostly just confused why they weren't writing down names every change they got, even if they weren't 100% confident it was an actual match.

I'd have been deleting townies as much as possible...

You don't know how much sad I was not being in a chat room :3

 

[adumbrodeus]

Doesn't work with people inactive enough to just replace out unfortunately

 

[Ronike]

I'm mostly just confused why they weren't writing down names every chance they got, even if they weren't 100% confident it was an actual match.

I'd have been deleting townies as much as possible...

Night one I was sure I was gonna get investigated (which I was, just didn't understand that the give wouldn't happen til the end of the day), then Kyryk or FIE (can't remember who was in charge at that point) didn't have Ryuk give the death note back in time to use it on Night 2. Night 3 was literally the first time we could use it, and its when we did.

 

[Xivii]

I really don't think claiming Wedy woulda done a damn thing, and I was terrified to claim anything as I was so sure if I claimed anything in thread, people would be all "Wedy dont smile all over the place, you a liar!", or in the chatzy that people would realize that I was Ronike, and say much the same thing. Especially once town was set on me or DJ, which since my room was so small and I had claimed Holder and Adum, the two I thought to be in my room, to be town, my only play was to agree.

Perhaps you're right. The people in your chat knew you were Wedy for quite a while though, and you were going to be lynched regardless. I think it was worth the risk.

Ya no, you presented it as a game with flavor weaved into the gameplay which was part of the reason why I chose to sign up in the first place and even on a base level, even on games that just use flavor as a wrapper roles not making sense for a characters used is a first order fakeclaim detection method. Your choice made no sense and functioned as a trap for those who knew the flavor, as was illustrated EVERYONE who knew the flavor would call BS on that claim.

If it was just me, then I could accept I was off-base, but it was holder too.

It was just you. Holder pushed Ryu on the basis that MCs could be converted. I do believe that he agreed with you that it would be odd for Yagami to be an MC, but that didn't seem to be his reason for pushing him. For the record, you two were not the only ones who knew the flavor. Ran (who was actually rewatching the show during the game) even pointed out how silly your line of logic was.

To be clear, I think it's perfectly acceptable to disagree with giving Yagami the MC ability, but not on the basis of flavor. The argument could be made that it was contradictory to restrict Yagami from using firearms but not the death note, I would say. I also think it's acceptable to have a different interpretation of the flavor, but to think that was the only interpretation, the correct interpretation, and the host's interpretation was definitely a bad assumption to make, and a bad assumption to ever make.

Lastly, I'm not sure of the last time you read or watched Death Note, but Yagami having MC is easily justified. Even though he never actually used the Death Note, he was the only one of the "Anti-Kiras" to ever have possession of it. His righteousness won in the end, but any change in the situation could have produced a different outcome. Imagine if one of his comrade's life were on the line when he faced Mello; or his son's; or his daughter's. Light was just as righteous as his father. He even refused to hold onto the gun L offered him in the same way as his father. But the line between good and evil is thin, and that's what this show is about. It was merely Light's circumstance that caused him to diverge from his father. The one name written in the death note forever changed his path. Soichiro was willing to use the death note. He cut his lifespan in half just to do so (no one would go that far if they had not formed the resolve to use it). If the circumstances had been just slightly different, I definitely believe he would have done so.

you presented it as a game with flavor weaved into the gameplay which was part of the reason why I chose to sign up in the first place and even on a base level

Also stop saying this xD. There was no where in the sign ups that came close to saying this. This was not a retelling of the story. I could probably see how you could get that after the Dawn 1 post, but unless I'm just not remembering the-Man running from the cops because of being a hydra, then I don't think this was the right thing to assume.

 

[Ronike]

I figured people had at least a good idea that it was me, and were push come to shove I would have claimed, see if it would have helped, but I doubt it would have by that point.

 

[adumbrodeus]

sorry no, holder had the same "bs" reaction as I did, he had just had prior reasons for pushing it. Your interpretation made no sense.

 

[Maven89]

I wasn't there for the Ryu claim so I can't really speak on it, but as a Death Note fan I think it makes perfect sense to give Yagami the Morbid Composer trait, I haven't seen the show in a while but I remember him at least making the eye deal and I think I remember them discussing him possibly using it? At least L was more then willing to use it.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

was ryu the only town morbid composer?

 

[Xivii]

sorry no, holder had the same "bs" reaction as I did, he had just had prior reasons for pushing it. Your interpretation made no sense.

Nein. It would be impossible for you to find a quote because it is non-existent.

 

[Orboknown]

Never fully read the thread and was flying blind through a lot of it. Sorry for the sub par performance zen.

 

[Ronike]

Soichiro Morbid composer makes sense IMO.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Soichiro using the Death Note was not something he ever did, but Morbid Composer isn't JUST that. It changes alignment to Pro-Kira. Light's father was regarded as the sole just character in the entire series by the creators, and his dying words were remarking in elation that his son wasn't Kira [at the particular moment in time]. Don't get onto Adumb for reasonably having issues with such a claim. I admitted that it could've made sense with a stretch later on before we lynched him, but my immediate reaction was truly the same. If the line between good and evil being thin was truly the point, then I think everyone should've had the potential to change, not just the one character that would probably least likely ever do anything like that. Even Near, who had probably the most vitriol towards Kira of everyone, could reasonably use the notebook because the manga speculated that he might've actually done so (albeit to corner Kira lol).

It didn't help that he possessed a gun, which contradicts something he specifically states in the series as I pointed out in that video I posted, because he was not a member of the taskforce. Of course, the gun was empty, and I later remarked too that, if stretched, there was a consistent logic, but the entire thing is paradoxically misleading on an undeniable level.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Nein. It would be impossible for you to find a quote because it is non-existent.

He liked MY "BS" post and expressed similar sentiments. Also it really didn't help that the wording of the death note implied recruitment while they possessed it, not miller status.

Come on Zenny, accept that you are not perfect, that you make mistakes .

 

[ranmaru]

The words still never mentioned the alignment being changed. You guys assumed that it did.

 

[th3kuzinator]

ronike and ala scummy af. didnt want either dead in thread cuz i needed to kill them via a gun. kinda whack i couldnt actually push any of my real scumpicks cuz i was afraid of lynching kira. kryk slipped by but wasnt much content there to make a really discernible action.

but holy **** adumb wasnt scum? doh.

 

[adumbrodeus]

ronike and ala scummy af. didnt want either dead in thread cuz i needed to kill them via a gun. kinda whack i couldnt actually push any of my real scumpicks cuz i was afraid of lynching kira. kryk slipped by but wasnt much content there to make a really discernible action.

but holy **** adumb wasnt scum? doh.

what in god's name made you think I was scum?

Edit:

The words still never mentioned the alignment being changed. You guys assumed that it did.

"Treated as pro-kira" implies an alignment change, it was a poor wording choice which compounded the issue.

 

[Xivii]

One's alignment does change while they are holding the death note. One's alignment is exclusive from their win-condition.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Aoi could've asked Zenny directly about his own role. Obviously we would've had no reason to believe him and if he was lying than it would've been natural to try and "enlighten" us, but there wasn't even a peep about that as if it were truly implied, as if there was no question.

 

[Xivii]

One's alignment does change while they are holding the death note. One's alignment is exclusive from their win-condition.

The game ends in one of two ways:

1. The Anti-Kira alignment is the only faction left.
2. Another faction achieves parity with all other factions.

When the game ends, anyone who has completed their objective is considered a winner. Keep in mind that objectives (win conditions) and alignments do not necessarily correlate. One's alignment achieving endgame does not necessarily mean the individual completed their win condition.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i agree that the wording was problematic. even after seeing the rule that win conditions are separate from alignments, I still assumed that a anti-kira player would have a anti-kira win condition. Like additional requirements on top of lynching scum.

ot wasn't an issue for me tho cuz morbid composer was probably only 4% of the reason why i pushed Ryu

 

[Xivii]

How would you word it?

 

[Xivii]

He liked MY "BS" post and expressed similar sentiments. Also it really didn't help that the wording of the death note implied recruitment while they possessed it, not miller status.

Come on Zenny, accept that you are not perfect, that you make mistakes .

I make many. CBA to even try and find the amount of typos in OPs of this thread.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

was just thinking that an im not sure tbh

 

[Xivii]

then gtfo

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Thinking on it, why would it be to Kira's advantage (aka alignment ratio with town) to have someone who's motivations (aka win condition) are the exact opposite possessing one of the Death Notes? Separating win conditions from being the definitive feature of alignment really makes for a confusing scenario. Last minute plot-twist Soichiro Yagami heel turn? "I'll kill all criminals... and then myself!" Then Light sighs, "...It's so like father to say that." GAME OVER!

Also the post-game suggestions you made about the outside-communication groups having powers in themselves and their being an actual Mafia (the absence of which definitely took me by surprise) would have indeed improved the game I think. Activity would've been greatly boosted inside and outside the game and it wouldn't have fallen to the shooting-fish-in-a-set-up-barrel state that it did.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

if win conditions aren't tied to alignments then alignments have no inherent meaning. alignments would be something that noone should care about at all. i understand why you needed it the way it was for the investigations but it still doesn't really make sense.

 

[Orboknown]

How would you word it?

Possessing a dn will make the player appear as pro-kira, however win conditions and objective are not affected by this.

?

 

[Xivii]

Thinking on it, why would it be to Kira's advantage (aka alignment ratio with town) to have someone who's motivations (aka win condition) are the exact opposite possessing one of the Death Notes? Separating win conditions from being the definitive feature of alignment really makes for a confusing scenario. Last minute plot-twist Soichiro Yagami heel turn? "I'll kill all criminals... and then myself!" Then Light sighs, "...It's so like father to say that." GAME OVER!.

Precisely. It would not be to their advantage. There were three people given the MC ability that did not start out Kira-aligned: One from town, one independent-town (trying to kill Kira), and one independent-scum (trying to aid Kira). Kira was meant to search for someone to perform the kills from him. Obviously he could not just give it to anyone though. He needed to find the right person.

 

[Xivii]

if win conditions aren't tied to alignments then alignments have no inherent meaning. alignments would be something that noone should care about at all. i understand why you needed it the way it was for the investigations but it still doesn't really make sense.

They work the same as any other game: To end the game.

 

[Xivii]

Possessing a dn will make the player appear as pro-kira, however win conditions and objective are not affected by this.

?

Yeah the "however win conditions and objectives not affected" part could be added for sure.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Precisely. It would not be to their advantage. There were three people given the MC ability that did not start out Kira-aligned: One from town, one independent-town (trying to kill Kira), and one independent-scum (trying to aid Kira). Kira was meant to search for someone to perform the kills from him. Obviously he could not just give it to anyone though. He needed to find the right person.

Having your alignment treated as pro-kira doesn't count towards "parity with all other factions" for the pro-kira folks?

 

[Xivii]

Soichiro using the Death Note was not something he ever did, but Morbid Composer isn't JUST that. It changes alignment to Pro-Kira. Light's father was regarded as the sole just character in the entire series by the creators, and his dying words were remarking in elation that his son wasn't Kira [at the particular moment in time]. Don't get onto Adumb for reasonably having issues with such a claim. I admitted that it could've made sense with a stretch later on before we lynched him, but my immediate reaction was truly the same. If the line between good and evil being thin was truly the point, then I think everyone should've had the potential to change, not just the one character that would probably least likely ever do anything like that. Even Near, who had probably the most vitriol towards Kira of everyone, could reasonably use the notebook because the manga speculated that he might've actually done so (albeit to corner Kira lol).

It didn't help that he possessed a gun, which contradicts something he specifically states in the series as I pointed out in that video I posted, because he was not a member of the taskforce. Of course, the gun was empty, and I later remarked too that, if stretched, there was a consistent logic, but the entire thing is paradoxically misleading on an undeniable level.

I believe Yagami did own a gun, I'm not quite sure though. But as a police officer, I would assume so (Police carry handguns in Japan). Also Yagami couldn't use the gun even if he had the bullet. And on that I agree with you it was contradictory. I also agree that it would make sense for everyone to have the MC ability.

 

[Xivii]

Having your alignment treated as pro-kira doesn't count towards "parity with all other factions" for the pro-kira folks?

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Orboknown]

4v2
Person gets a dn
Would that effectively kake it 3ve endgame?