Dealing with fast characters, how do we keep up the pace?

[SpScarecrow]

I had played a fox/falco player and due to reflector my zoning options were limited. Their smash attacks recover quickly and it was like they were constantly in my face. Anything i did felt slow and laggy. What are our options for fast characters like that? (Capt falcon and Sheik also fit)

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I'm surprised this happens with WFT. Very few fox players are smart enough to keep pressure from the get go. This is an observation I've made with Samus but the same applies against any rushdown character, especially the space animals. With Samus the trick is to make them respect you horizontal range by using your grab, tilt and charge shot. After a few whacks to the face they start slowing down and try to play the space game more heavily and think twice about approaching or approach aerialy. WFT doesn't have an extensive grab but she does have a charge shot. Get it full as early as possible. WFT can charge while airborne so squeeze in a little bit whenever you can. The mind game kicks in when thwy start using reflector. Punish them if they get to trigger happy with it. Regardless, they can't do much when reflecting so it sloes down the pace. Using incomplete shots cam help as most reflect characters await cues and such. Fox is really a hassle especially against characters who are a little on the ass backwards side. I haven't had any experience with this matchup but I'm sure it's difficult. This is the most I could share on the matchup unfortunately.

 

[⑨ball]

Spoiler: Space Animals

First off learn how to make reflector scary to use. This is a must against reflect characters and projectile absorption characters.SS cancels into shield meaning approaches can be countered with anything you can do out of shield. Reflector also has decent cool down meaning you can charge and bait reflector and then dash in to attempt punishes.

Fox's rush down is all about spacing because his range is no better than yours and he doesn't have any disjoints. Learning how to pivot ftilt to beat out dash attacks and grabs will change your game completely. His short hop game with nair and bair can be crouch>shield punished, and because you don't lose any options while crouched, this is a great defensive position to revert back to in neutral. It also ducks lasers so you don't need to have fear of that. I need to double check and see if crouch goes under grab, I don't think it does however.

On offense, jab is your friend. Since Fox will want to be up close too, you can use it to bop grab attempts and spot dodges. It sets up for good damage, netting more and more the higher their percent. Ftilt is one of your kill moves, clashes with all of Fox's ground moves except Dsmash(which it occasionally whiffs) so it's good to throw out if you predict an attack. Nair is your go to for damage building and general shield pressure. At around 90%, soft nair combos into usmash for the kill(70-75 with DB). At around 105% ffnair combos into uair for the kill. Grab often and keep him in the air, neither of their dairs are particularly threatening and even less so when you're on the ground.

If you knock him offstage, watch his movement before deciding what to do. If he goes low, chase after him. WFT loves being offstage and space animals have always had a linear recovering, bair, dair and header trades are in your favor so go for them when you can.

I haven't played any good Falcos yet but his moveset isn't much different from Fox, so I'd proceed similarly.

Spoiler: Sheik and Falcon

There's a big post on Sheik in the MU thread I did, take a look at it so you know what your options are. Just keep in mind that I was not kidding when I said Sheik had an incredible dash>grab. It's her most powerful option in the MU imo. To reiterate in short: Stay low so you can force commitment and make her second guess her dash grab, out zone her with better projectiles, rack up damage when you can with nair, don't get hit by bouncing fish.

Falcon actually has similar problems and you can slow the entire match down just by crouching. Dash attack will whiff if he's too close, grab will always whiff. His other options are much more punishable and carry the risk of getting SS'd, which you can charge well enough, or blocked if your reaction time is decent. Building damage plays generally the same, but his offstage and recovery is much worse so take advantage of that. His dair is much better than the other characters mentioned but you still want to keep him above you for the most part. If you're worried about it you can also play safe and swat balls and throw SS at him from x axis too. Just remember that header has lag no matter when it recovers in the air, so unless you're doing SH header, you should be landing with SS, DB, or an aerial to cancel it's lag. Don't get caught by random falcon kicks or raptor punches while you're crouching and you should be fine.

For good measure here's a video of Crisspy playing the Fox MU correctly:

Crisspy too fit for Fox

 

[SpScarecrow]

With fox i got frustrated and played bad. Got hit with dash up smash a few times. Ducking under lasers works.

 

[⑨ball]

That's good. Recognizing what you did wrong is the first step to getting better at any MU. Fox, Diddy, and Sheik specialize in putting on pressure to force you into bad habits or positions where your options aren't as good so it's easy to get frustrated and pulled into their pace. Remember that if you get caught in strings that drifting offstage is a good option for Wft in order to reset to neutral.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I noticed Crisspy was tossing out quite a few Nairs. Any reason besides catching his approaches or does it beat out any of foxes moves?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Depends on the character but I tend to use grabs more with a lot of faster characters, especially the fast fallers like Fox and Falco because it can lead to some nice set ups. When it comes to the reflectors of those two, it becomes a matter of not being completely predictable. For example, hitting them with the sun salutation is much more like to work if you do it from point blank than if they're half the stage away. Learn to take advantage of WFT's low landing lag for her aerials because this also opens up good options for projectiles.