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Dealing with falco

zoojane

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
2
Let me start by saying I'm a scrub. I do try to use advanced techniques and I have played in tournaments (I usually lose in first round). I have one friend who refuses to use more than 2 moves- but he's played so much that he's pretty good at using only 2 moves. All he ever does as falco is phantasm back and forth, throw an occasional F smash. He probably does 1 aerial per stock. I can beat him with my other characters but I sometimes lose with Zelda (my favorite) because I can't catch him while he's phantasming.

Any suggestions? Anything I can practice on my own to get better with punishing phantasms and rolls?
 
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Kati

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
1,471
D-smash is okay against rolls what with the low angle and Falco's poor recovery. Short hopping aerials should be able to catch either an aerial or a phantasm. Nayru's love gives you a bit of invincibility and covers a roll's range as well. Play on stages with platforms.
 

ECHOnce

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,191
Location
Bellevue, WA
If that's all he's doing, practice learning how to lay Dins accurately (her side-B) by going to the Temple stage and navigating them through the various paths and stuff. Once you've practiced enough, you should be able to easily lay them a short distance in front of / behind him to ensure that if he side-B's towards you or away, he'll just hit the Dins (and you can follow up while he's in hitstun).

Learning how to land-cancel Nayrus (her neutral-B) could also be useful - if you start Nayrus in the air, and land just as the attack part of the animation finishes, you can cancel it into another attack, jump, shield, grab, or dash sooner than normal. That means that you can use it to safely approach. It's not necessary, but learning how to B-reverse Nayrus can be pretty helpful at times too. Also, since it out-ranges all of his aerials (if he approaches from the side), you can either approach his aerials with Nayrus, or you can retreat while he's close and B-reverse it (which would probably be more effective). Nayrus is vulnerable from the top/bottom though, so if he's above you already, you should just U-smash or U-tilt or something.

Both of those can stuff most approaches fairly easily (including his side-B and F-smash spamming), and allow simple follow-ups. Since F-smash is much shorter, you could also just shield-grab him out of his F-smash (shield before he F-smashes while facing him, and then press A after it hits your shield. L+A or R+A inputs grabs like Z) and chain-grab him from there. On that note...Zelda has a U-throw chain-grab that can also lead into several U-smashes and then end with aerials or F-smash or D-smash.

Remember that so long as you can get Falco off the stage, he's a dead Falco. Learn how to edge-guard Falco, and he should only be able to make it back if you mess up or are too far away.
 

Kaeldiar

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
563
Location
MDVAiridian City
There is nothing more frustrating than getting beaten by someone who just uses 1 or 2 moves!

If something radical happens and he starts getting good, this is probably the best documented MU for Zelda. Zhime and Mango played a plethora of games at A New Hope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXANn8OpcdU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA9KVWcCZcM

For the time being, Nayru's Love shuts down Phantasm. Learning how to use Din's properly will also help IMMENSELY. It's a great noob-killer. Jaicho's advice with going to Temple to practice is good (and also pretty fun! It's like playing with a new toy). Personally, I like to try to imitate Mewtwo's Shadow Ball movement. Throw out a couple uncharged Shadow Balls as Mewtwo, then go back to Zelda and try to make Din's move how Shadow Ball did.

Up-throw chaingrab is great :D You can chain together up-throws and up-smashes on Fox and Falco, as seen here, and finish with a lightning kick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXANn8OpcdU#t=1m18s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXANn8OpcdU#t=2m12s

Zelda has a lot to deal with Falco, but so does Falco. It's really frustrating if you don't know what you're doing. Good luck!
 

4tlas

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
1,298
He doesn't use lasers?! You're lucky. When I play against any Falco he only uses 3 moves: shine, dair, and lasers.

If he just does phantasm, for now you can beat that by standing still and using Nayru's whenever you see him start a phantasm. Make him do something else to get around that.

Edit: Oh yeah, Dins, Dsmash, and Fsmash will also work well. I suggested Nayru's because the technique is more forgiving due to the invuln frames you get when using Nayru's.
 
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Downdraft

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Messages
556
Location
Huntsville, AL
I've been practicing against the AI recently, and the chain U-throws don't appear to work anymore, so I just U-throw into repeated U-smashes. Is anyone else having this problem?

-Up Throw: Damage decreased from 9-8, KB values compensated. Releases a frame faster.
I don't see how this small change alone allows the CPU's to escape hitstun after the second or third throw.
 

4tlas

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
1,298
I've been practicing against the AI recently, and the chain U-throws don't appear to work anymore, so I just U-throw into repeated U-smashes. Is anyone else having this problem?


I don't see how this small change alone allows the CPU's to escape hitstun after the second or third throw.
The AI has godlike reaction time. For a human to do what it does it would have to buffer inputs which means it is committing to them early and is probably not thinking about further DI or getting out of tumble.

The more I practice against the AI the worse my combos get, especially as Zelda.
 
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