A friend (@Teatra) asked me how many frames it takes each character to be able to dash back in the opposite direction after initiating a dash (without using an extended dash dance and of course without getting a dash turn). This got me interested in finding the best possible way for each character to do this and while I was at it, the data would also tell me the fastest possible way for each character to be able to use any action at all after they have inputted a dash (excluding a PP).
(For reference, to do a frame perfect extended dash dance, Cloud would need to re-dash on frame 16 then input the dash back on frame 17, which is 1 frame faster than what he can do below, but in practice? good luck doing that.)
I have the data for 4 different methods below.
The first is inputting a dash, immediately releasing the joystick to neutral and waiting for the skid.
The second is inputting a dash, holding the joystick forwards and returning it to neutral on the frame after you transition into a run then waiting out the skid.
The third is inputting a dash, holding the joystick forwards and inputting shield so you shield on the dash to run transition frame, then immediately releasing shield and waiting out the shield drop frames.
And the fourth is inputting a dash, quickly (on frame 4 of the dash in my tests) move the joystick to the diagonal down/forward indent and holding it there, returning the joystick to neutral on the frame after you transition into a run then waiting out the skid.
The first method I quickly labbed out myself. The second method I looked at the dash length of each character http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/DashLength and at first I was just adding the running skid length onto it https://smashboards.com/threads/skid-stop-to-shield-up-times.436583/#post-21190367, but then I found that this didn't always give the right result (see Jiggs) so I manually labbed everyone. For the third method I looked at the dash length of each character and then added 18 frames onto it, which is the minimum shield hold time. Finally for the fourth method I labbed it out manually; note that there was an issue with consistency which I go into later.
The numbers below are the frames on which you can dash backwards (or do anything at all like Jab, U-tilt and D-tilt).
Method 1:
(inputting a dash, immediately releasing the joystick to neutral and waiting out the skid)
Method 2:
(inputting a dash, holding the joystick, releasing it as soon as you transition into a run then waiting out the skid)
Method 3:
(inputting a dash, holding the joystick, holding shield to shield as soon as you transition into a run then immediately dropping shield)
Method 4:
(input a dash, quickly (on frame 4 of the dash in my tests) move the joystick to the diagonal down/forward indent and hold it there, then return the joystick to neutral on the frame after you transition into a slow run.)
Note that this method is inconsistent due to joysticks having a difficult time making consistent diagonal inputs and the corresponding frames of the skid being very dependant on how fast you were running which is connected to the very specific X values of the joystick, and so the results may vary by a frame or two; however, I have accounted for this by testing each one multiple times to get the best estimate and I have also been lenient on the frame I moved the joystick to the diagonal, so you may well get a slightly faster one.
Method 4.2:
(input a dash, immediately (on frame 2 of the dash in my tests) move the joystick to the diagonal down/forward indent and hold it there, then return the joystick to neutral on the frame after you transition into a slow run.)
See method 4 above. It's the same thing but stricter timing, and the result is that some characters get a slightly better version.
Final Results using the best method for each character:
The number of the method used will appear beside the character icon if it is either method 2, 3, 4 or 4.2.
If method 4 is equal best with another method, I will not list 4 as it is more difficult to use. For the same reason, if 4.2 is the same as 4, I will not list 4.2. You should still check all your character's methods and decide which one you would like to use. For example, there are a number of cases where method 4 is only one frame faster than a much easier method, so you might decide that it isn't worth it for you.
You should use this all the time
16 - (4)
18 -
20 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 - (4) (2)
23 - (4) (4)
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 - (2) (2) (4.2) (4) (4) (4) (4)
26 - (4.2)
27 - (3) (4) (4.2)
Not really worth it any more
28 - (4) (4) (4)
29 - (4) (4)
30 -
(For reference, to do a frame perfect extended dash dance, Cloud would need to re-dash on frame 16 then input the dash back on frame 17, which is 1 frame faster than what he can do below, but in practice? good luck doing that.)
I have the data for 4 different methods below.
The first is inputting a dash, immediately releasing the joystick to neutral and waiting for the skid.
The second is inputting a dash, holding the joystick forwards and returning it to neutral on the frame after you transition into a run then waiting out the skid.
The third is inputting a dash, holding the joystick forwards and inputting shield so you shield on the dash to run transition frame, then immediately releasing shield and waiting out the shield drop frames.
And the fourth is inputting a dash, quickly (on frame 4 of the dash in my tests) move the joystick to the diagonal down/forward indent and holding it there, returning the joystick to neutral on the frame after you transition into a run then waiting out the skid.
The first method I quickly labbed out myself. The second method I looked at the dash length of each character http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/DashLength and at first I was just adding the running skid length onto it https://smashboards.com/threads/skid-stop-to-shield-up-times.436583/#post-21190367, but then I found that this didn't always give the right result (see Jiggs) so I manually labbed everyone. For the third method I looked at the dash length of each character and then added 18 frames onto it, which is the minimum shield hold time. Finally for the fourth method I labbed it out manually; note that there was an issue with consistency which I go into later.
The numbers below are the frames on which you can dash backwards (or do anything at all like Jab, U-tilt and D-tilt).
Method 1:
(inputting a dash, immediately releasing the joystick to neutral and waiting out the skid)
You should use this all the time
18 - (limit and non-limit)
20 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 -
Esam
23 -
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 -
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
34 - (all MArts)
38 -
39 -
40 -
Lol
45 -
18 - (limit and non-limit)
20 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 -
Esam
23 -
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 -
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
34 - (all MArts)
38 -
39 -
40 -
Lol
45 -
Method 2:
(inputting a dash, holding the joystick, releasing it as soon as you transition into a run then waiting out the skid)
You should use this all the time
18 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 -
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 -
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
33 -
34 -
35 -
36 -
37 -
38 -
39 -
Lol
49 -
18 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 -
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 -
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
33 -
34 -
35 -
36 -
37 -
38 -
39 -
Lol
49 -
Method 3:
(inputting a dash, holding the joystick, holding shield to shield as soon as you transition into a run then immediately dropping shield)
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
33 -
34 -
35 -
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
33 -
34 -
35 -
Method 4:
(input a dash, quickly (on frame 4 of the dash in my tests) move the joystick to the diagonal down/forward indent and hold it there, then return the joystick to neutral on the frame after you transition into a slow run.)
Note that this method is inconsistent due to joysticks having a difficult time making consistent diagonal inputs and the corresponding frames of the skid being very dependant on how fast you were running which is connected to the very specific X values of the joystick, and so the results may vary by a frame or two; however, I have accounted for this by testing each one multiple times to get the best estimate and I have also been lenient on the frame I moved the joystick to the diagonal, so you may well get a slightly faster one.
You should use this all the time
16 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 -
23 -
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 -
25 -
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
34 -
36 -
39 -
Lol
49 -
16 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 -
23 -
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 -
25 -
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
34 -
36 -
39 -
Lol
49 -
Method 4.2:
(input a dash, immediately (on frame 2 of the dash in my tests) move the joystick to the diagonal down/forward indent and hold it there, then return the joystick to neutral on the frame after you transition into a slow run.)
See method 4 above. It's the same thing but stricter timing, and the result is that some characters get a slightly better version.
You should use this all the time
16 -
20 -
21 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 -
23 -
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 -
25 -
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
34 -
36 -
38 -
42 -
16 -
20 -
21 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 -
23 -
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 -
25 -
26 -
27 -
Not really worth it any more
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
34 -
36 -
38 -
42 -
Final Results using the best method for each character:
The number of the method used will appear beside the character icon if it is either method 2, 3, 4 or 4.2.
If method 4 is equal best with another method, I will not list 4 as it is more difficult to use. For the same reason, if 4.2 is the same as 4, I will not list 4.2. You should still check all your character's methods and decide which one you would like to use. For example, there are a number of cases where method 4 is only one frame faster than a much easier method, so you might decide that it isn't worth it for you.
You should use this all the time
16 - (4)
18 -
20 -
Still worth using this for movement, while being great for attacks
22 - (4) (2)
23 - (4) (4)
There are better things you can be doing for movement, but it's still relevant for attacks
24 - (2) (2) (4.2) (4) (4) (4) (4)
26 - (4.2)
27 - (3) (4) (4.2)
Not really worth it any more
28 - (4) (4) (4)
29 - (4) (4)
30 -
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