Dash Slash Bowser's Tier

[aidspup]

would bowser go up a couple tiers, if his side b was dash slash?

 

[atticusfinch7]

Not 100% sure if I know what dash slash is (I think it's the one that has really low knockback and endlag right?) but I don't think speculating how things would be different with customs is very worthwhile because just about any character becomes incredibly dangerous with them if optimized. But what I do know is Bowser's SideB is a deceptively good move. People may underestimate it because it comes out relatively slow for a grab, but it's very useful for catching people trying to punish your landings (well timed sideB before landing has a pretty big grab-box plus it autocancels) and also for grabbing people shielding on platforms. When I play bowser one of my favorite mixups is when people are standing right next time me while I hold ledge, I drop down then jump and sideB. Many people shield expecting a fair, but you can actually get a sideB grab off of this.

 

[wizrad]

The regular Klaw is generally thought to be better.

 

[paperchao]

i think reular klaw is better post patch due to it being a solid kill throw, but the nuetral applications with slash still makes it a threat on its own, but the nerf to up throw seriously hurt it as an option

 

[Big Sean]

I'm back and forth on this. After using dash slash for months in tournaments I came to the conclusion that it just wasn't better than losing a command kill throw. Now i'm not so sure. After the up throw buffs, I think I rely on side b way way less. There might be a place to improve my neutral with dash slash. I personally think it won't move him up a tier list, but It could make him better potentially.

 

[CreamyFatone]

I think the main thing with dash slash is that there were movement options and confirmed followups after hitting, but since we got the upthrow patch I think that need has been filled and it's not worth giving up an aerial command grab.

 

[S_B]

I've decided that klaw is just too good of a move to lose, which is funny because I used to lean completely the other way on that subject.

It's extremely useful as a quick kill move, and even as just a move to use when you have only 7 frames in which to do something to your opponent on reaction. 18% is also nothing to sneeze at, plus if you manage to get a stock lead, klaw can end the game in an instant.

 

[Big Sean]

I think one thing people are forgetting about Dash Slash is that it's one more way to land. One of Bowser's biggest weaknesses is landing and one of Bowser's strengths is kiling people. To be able to sacrifice a bit of killing power to get an amazing landing option, that might be worth it.

 

[Volimutt]

Combo and mix up wise I reckon but Flying Slam is a very reliable kill option and the high damage is great too.

 

[Kooky Koopa]

I think if given Dash slash Bowser would remain in mid tier. Dash Slash is nice but I much prefer side-b as a kill move and just in general as a damage dealer if necessary. While dash slash is nice with the extra movement, I think Koopa Klaw is just too valuable to Bowser's kit as it makes the opponent more cautious due to their shield not being as safe (where it would be with dash slash) and also extremely valuable when a match comes down to the crucial kill shot.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Our tier wouldn't budge because of all the custom moves in high tier that are already bogus. Stun Needles, Exploding Baloons, Air Bending Expansion, Jumbo Hoops... these are only a few of the customs that completely outclass our Dash Claw in terms of what it opens up for those character's kits. Dash Claw is not only far from unbeatable, with blind-spots, mediocre priority, and horrendous disadvantage on block, but the aerial usage is largely telegraphed and predictable. It is not an acceptable answer against an opponent that is already aware and waiting for us. Wave landing is just a gimmick, and we still eat early-mid % aerial strings like it's going out of fashion. What's the point in gaining the ability to escape in the air at higher percents when so many of the threats in high tier can just win neutral harder with customs?

We just don't gain enough from Dash Claw to shake things up in an all-customs environment. Unless we get something else from patches, you should not count on any of our custom moves carrying us to a higher tier.

 

[Cronoc]

If no other characters but Bowser (and Miis) got access to customs, Bowser would move up some spots, maybe jump a tier. Having it as a landing option and ledge getup option, not to mention combo possibilities and the way it changes the neutral game are all huge thinngs to add to Bowser's repertoire. Movement options are part of what makes the many of the top tier characters the best.

But after spending months with customs on back before EVO, I think it led to degenerate gameplay. My overall play wasn't nearly as tight because my whole gameplan was centered around dash slash, which could get me in or out at any time. It effectively allowed Bowser to break the neutral. Funnily enough, Bowser is a great counter to dash slash bowser, as pivot grab kills dash slash approaches, demonstrated to me in tournament way back when by Big Sean .

TL/DR: It would probably help, but I'm not interested in that play-style anymore.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Bowser with Dash Slash is a whole different character, but not necessarily a better one. Klaw was always one of our most valuable moves, and I think we went overboard on Dash Slash hype pre-EVO 2015 because we were all still so sour over the new Bowsercide results. Patch 1.04 was by far the worst few months for Bowser mains. Nowadays, Klaw has a better hitbox, can be controlled fairly, and serves a more valuable niche of a grab that lets us kill at % ranges where Uthrow to Uair isn't guaranteed.

If we entered a customs on meta, Dash Slash would still show up for our recommended sets, but perhaps left for specific matchups, or just people that want to play a less-effective heavyweight version of Sonic over default Bowser. For instance, Dash Slash would be a nightmare to get stuck with against Bayonetta. It has as much windup as the average smash attack, so anybody with a counter has that sort of easy answer. A waveslash can be as safe on shield as Sheik's Fair in terms of block advantage, but we're not shiek. We don't have a 2 frame jab or 6 frame grab to keep up shield pressure. And while it's hitbox is massive, I wager any sort of sword character beats it with attacks, rather than trying to block. I love its recovery and landing mixup applications because Bowser gets predictable when we always retreat to a ledge. Plus a short hop Dash Slash gets us really damned far offstage for an aggressive edgeguard. We can meet Sheik with a Fair before she reaches vanish distance of the ledge, that's not reasonable for us to do in Customs Off because we can't move that fast horizontally offstage.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Dash Slash Bowser is less useful now after Uthrow->Uair kill confirms were nerfed and Klaw's hitbox has been buffed. Dash Slash 1.1.3 Bowser would've been amazing, but now giving up his default Side-B hurts more.

 

[Zethoro]

High tier. Dash Slash Bowser gains better landing options, a quicker mid-range punish tool, a solid pressure tool, some interesting mobility options, a better combo game and an incredible kill confirm in Air Dash slash to BAir. I'll take all of that over some command grab with half the range of my normal grab that kills ~20% earlier than my BThrow and later than my kill confirm any day.