DA: Dark Horse vs. Bob Jane T-Mart "Should the Government do something about obesity?

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I'l start off.

When I was doing my research I came across an interesting fact: obese patients spend an average of $1,429 more on health care than non-obese people. The amount of money spent due to obesity is around $147 billion. Obesity is ruining the government. Don't you think they should just do something?

Also, you might say "The people can do it by themselves". Let me tell you, they won't. I'm using myself as an example here. The biggest reason why I'm against obesity is because I don't want to stop eating. This is also probably what other people would say about why they don't want the government to stop obesity: They don't want change.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

I'l start off.

When I was doing my research I came across an interesting fact: obese patients spend an average of $1,429 more on health care than non-obese people. The amount of money spent due to obesity is around $147 billion. Obesity is ruining the government. Don't you think they should just do something?

Well, the first question I'll ask is: What do you mean be something? You can't just demand we do something, but then come up with no ideas. That's just pointless whining.

Also if you are really worried about the governments finances, I believe that you have larger fish to fry. You're far better off pulling out of Iraq or Afghanistan if you wish to save money. Iraq seems to have cost the US already, $742 Billion, while Afghanistan has cost the US $365 Billion [1].

Additionally, obesity may actually be saving the government money. See, when people die prematurely before the retirement age, the government doesn't have to hand out a pension. Remember all the fears of an ageing population? Well, with obesity, it will fix itself. If the life expectancy drops, we'll have more people of working age as a percentage of our population, and this will benefit our economy.

Also, you might say "The people can do it by themselves". Let me tell you, they won't. I'm using myself as an example here. The biggest reason why I'm against obesity is because I don't want to stop eating. This is also probably what other people would say about why they don't want the government to stop obesity: They don't want change.

Well, it's not the government's responsibility, it's our responsibility. It's our food choices, and it's our lifestyle. I don't want the government telling me what to eat and how to live my life. If they start doing that, they're beginning to sound awfully authoritarian.

There are market mechanisms that will get on top of this issue. Obese and overweight people get charged more for life and health insurance premiums [2]. If being fat costs you money, you're less likely to do it.

In fact the industry and charity groups are already doing things to tackle obesity. In 2006, the Clinton Foundation, the American Heart Foundation, Coke, Cadbury Shweppes and Pepsi have agreed to remove their sugary drinks from their vending in schools, and replace them with healthier ones. This is a good example of how the industry can regulate itself. [3] The government need not get involved.

Sources: [1]http://costofwar.com/
[2]http://www.xlife.com.au/life-insurance/term-life-insurance/0besity-being-overweight-can-affect-term-life-insurance-premiums/
[3]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1191823-1,00.html

On another note, I'd like to ask where you got your statistics from.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Kids could be easily, in search of a better term, manipulated easier to be less obese. For example, you could, for kids, lower the amount of "junk" food served in cafertetia's as well as increase PE time (no complaints there).

Alas, for adults, it's harder, as there is no school that they go to. I have to get back to that later.

They see me whining, they hatin

Also if you are really worried about the governments finances, I believe that you have larger fish to fry. You're far better off pulling out of Iraq or Afghanistan if you wish to save money. Iraq seems to have cost the US already, $742 Billion, while Afghanistan has cost the US $365 Billion [1].

Fair enough. However, let's say the war in Iraq ends. What is something we will have to deal with? The economy. What can we do to help stop it? Fix obesity.

Additionally, obesity may actually be saving the government money. See, when people die prematurely before the retirement age, the government doesn't have to hand out a pension. Remember all the fears of an ageing population? Well, with obesity, it will fix itself. If the life expectancy drops, we'll have more people of working age as a percentage of our population, and this will benefit our economy.

However, obesity, on average, lowers life expectancy by only 6-7 years. The average American lifespan is 78 years, and pensions checks start being handed out at age 65. So no, obesity isn't enough to stop pension checks.

Well, it's not the government's responsibility, it's our responsibility. It's our food choices, and it's our lifestyle. I don't want the government telling me what to eat and how to my life. If they start doing that, they're beginning to sound awfully authoritarian.

Unfortunatley, with that same thinking (somewhat), we got into this obesity. We cannot use the same thinking that got us into the problem to get out. When you solve a problem, something changes, whether it be that you know how to solve a rubix cube, or Hiroshima is in ruins. You can't expect o solve a problem by changing nothing.

There are market mechanisms that will get on top of this issue. Obese and overweight people get charged more for life and health insurance premiums [2]. If being fat costs you money, you're less likely to do it.

I came across this while researching. However, bob, what if people continue buying it, even with the market mechanisms? We'd just end up with a worse economy.

In fact the industry and charity groups are already doing things to tackle obesity. In 2006, the Clinton Foundation, the American Heart Foundation, Coke, Cadbury Shweppes and Pepsi have agreed to remove their sugary drinks from their vending in schools, and replace them with healthier ones. This is a good example of how the industry can regulate itself. [3] The government need not get involved.

Apparently, that hasn't completley fixed obesity. Do you have any other cases of the industry fixing itself on its own?



Sorry, I'll post sources for this post and my prevoius post when I can get on a computer.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Kids could be easily, in search of a better term, manipulated easier to be less obese. For example, you could, for kids, lower the amount of "junk" food served in cafertetia's as well as increase PE time (no complaints there).

Okay, reducing the amount of "junk" food in school lunches isn't too bad. But increasing PE time would have a few negative effects. It'd decrease the amount of time for other classes, which are important, or increase the hours of school.

And that solution does nothing for their diets outside of school. I'll use ballpark numbers. Lets say that you eat 21 meals a week. 3 for each day. You eat 2 out of school on school days and 3 out of school on week ends. You have five days at school a week. You're only going to be controlling 5/21 meals a child eats. That's roughly a quarter. The rest is outside your control. In short, you solution is incomplete.

Alas, for adults, it's harder, as there is no school that they go to. I have to get back to that later.

Okay.

Fair enough. However, let's say the war in Iraq ends. What is something we will have to deal with? The economy. What can we do to help stop it? Fix obesity.

How will fixing obesity fix the economy? It'll help the government deficit, maybe, but that doesn't translate into fixing the economy.

However, obesity, on average, lowers life expectancy by only 6-7 years. The average American lifespan is 78 years, and pensions checks start being handed out at age 65. So no, obesity isn't enough to stop pension checks.

You know life expectancy is an average right? With obesity, more people will die before the pension age, thus decreasing the number of pensions the government needs to hand out. Furthermore, 6-7 years on a pension is a significant amount of money that government is saving. I couldn't find the actual amount given out by social security, but I would imagine it's at least a thousand dollars a year. And guess what? This is occurring in 32.2% of the adult population as of 2006. [1] That's around 100 million people. That's a lot of money saved.

So already, even with ridiculous numbers that put pensioners below the relative poverty line, that's around $650 Billion saved.

Unfortunatley, with that same thinking (somewhat), we got into this obesity. We cannot use the same thinking that got us into the problem to get out. When you solve a problem, something changes, whether it be that you know how to solve a rubix cube, or Hiroshima is in ruins. You can't expect o solve a problem by changing nothing.

You're not taking into account the adaptability of the free market. And really, the problem is not worth infringing in people's liberties to solve.

I came across this while researching. However, bob, what if people continue buying it, even with the market mechanisms? We'd just end up with a worse economy.

They wont, that's how market mechanisms work. Secondly, money travelling to insurers isn't lost its increased spending and increased spending helps the economy.

Apparently, that hasn't completley fixed obesity. Do you have any other cases of the industry fixing itself on its own?

Do you expect three corporations to fix this whole issue? But hey, it's a step in the right direction. Speaking of which, McDonalds in 2008 switched to trans-fat free canola oil instead of beef tallow. [2]

Sources: [1] http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/295/13/1549
[2] http://www.gmanews.tv/story/96850/McDonalds-says-all-US-french-fries-cooked-in-zero-trans-fat-oil