D-Throw to Uair

[Malle]

Completely broken move. To grab > KO someone at 100% with next to no effort is ridicolous.

It is a good move, as a combo, and many characters have this variant. But no other character has the potential to perform a grab combo that instantly KO's the target.

Shine some light on the issue, discuss. Assist me on this mental frusteration.

 

[DeLux]

Have you tried varying your vectoring patterns?

 

[Malle]

Hmm, just a bit, but it felt like it didn't help the slightest. The D-Throw is insanely quick and Diddy jumps pretty high, in combination of the throw being pretty weak so the distance covered is not all too great.

Perhaps a certain direction is considered better than the other regarding vectoring, if anyone knows that would be of great help.
If not, then I will just have to try it.

 

[DeLux]

Vectoring the Dthrow away to avoid the Uair linking tends to work at higher percents from what I've seen. So you can mixup your vectoring by getting your opponent to hit you past the percent which a dthrow will still link to Uair but wont' kill you. And then Vectoring away to widen the gap.

 

[Malle]

Well, I know all there is to know about vectoring. I was just thinking about in which direction the vectoring should go, if it even matters. Or maybe I'm just momentarily mad because of the 3DS controls disappointing me. Either way, it was hell-annoying.

 

[LiL.Will]

I hear most people Vector up and away after being down thrown. D-throw > U-air reminds me of Melee Fox's U-Throw > U-air. Dont take this for granted but in training mode I went and tested what percentage most characters get KO'd after D-throw > U-air: 110-120% on lightweights, 130-140% on midweights, and 140-150% on Heavyweights. I never see it connect after that as they go to high.

 

[Malle]

I hear most people Vector up and away after being down thrown. D-throw > U-air reminds me of Melee Fox's U-Throw > U-air. Dont take this for granted but in training mode I went and tested what percentage most characters get KO'd after D-throw > U-air: 110-120% on lightweights, 130-140% on midweights, and 140-150% on Heavyweights. I never see it connect after that as they go to high.

Thank you, I will keep this in mind. Hopefully it can break the connection.

 

[Empty Number]

Thank you, I will keep this in mind. Hopefully it can break the connection.

Yup. I can attest to that. Racking up damage with Diddy is easy due to banana/side-b mind games and d-throw uairs. When it comes to the kill though, most good players know to vector up and away, then air dodge as they come down. Once I notice that they're doing that, it becomes a lot harder to land a uair, as I have to:

1) Bait out an air dodge, and hit them during the 3 frames or so they are vulnerable.
2) Read a jump.
3) Run in to uair unexpectedly when it looks like I'm halfway across the stage.
4) Grab them and throw them so quick that they don't have time to react and vector away.

It's not as EZ-mode as it seems KOing with that combo, particularly if you get them past 120% or so.

 

[Malle]

I'm just not used to vectoring, that is all.
Something completely new to think about.

I appreciate the feedback, thanks, yet again!

 

[Remioli]

Also at low percentages the throw is still a guaranteed 30 percent minimum on lots of characters. Dthrow to two or more aerials is easy. With a banana and side B he's also probably the easiest character to get grabs with.

 

[Negoksai]

If you hold up diddys throw to uair combo ends much earlier but be careful at alightly higher percentages where Diddy can mix it up and throw you up or forward to kill you with your own DI. I might aswell mention this now for when you battle more competitive Diddys or when the Wii U veraion is released and it's easier to peform. Diddy kongs far more reliable kill setup is dtilt to uair or fair. Vector away from Diddy to try and get away.

 

[-Se7en-]

It's not a legit combo, I used Diddy at a tournament and people got out a lot. I landed maybe 5 down throw up airs the whole tournament.

Diddy isn't really that OP, but he is a good character. Most of the people who say he is OP are usually For Glory Scrubs.

He is beatable, truth be told Villager counters Diddy hard, pocket a banana and Diddy can't use it. It's pretty easy to get too because Diddy throws it so high without a smash input. Villager can then run away and do dumb Villager stuff.

People just need to get good and quit holding L or R and spamming left and right because it's not working.

 

[Dre89]

It's not a legit combo, I used Diddy at a tournament and people got out a lot. I landed maybe 5 down throw up airs the whole tournament.

Diddy isn't really that OP, but he is a good character. Most of the people who say he is OP are usually For Glory Scrubs.

He is beatable, truth be told Villager counters Diddy hard, pocket a banana and Diddy can't use it. It's pretty easy to get too because Diddy throws it so high without a smash input. Villager can then run away and do dumb Villager stuff.

People just need to get good and quit holding L or R and spamming left and right because it's not working.

Pocketing the nana isn't that big of a deal because nana's aren't central to Diddy's meta like they were in Brawl (at least for now anyway). He's now more about abusing his excellent frame data to force punishable commitment (on the grounds) and set up frametraps in the air.

Although personally I see nanas becoming more important as the meta becomes more defensive.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Lots of characters have D-throw to Aerial combos. R.O.B., for example, also has a D-throw to Uair combo that can KO at similar percentages iirc. There are plenty of other examples of D-throw to Aerial combos that other characters have, like Ness's D-throw to Fair and G&W's D-throw to Nair. Diddy Kong is no exception to this and his combo is hardly the most broken thing about him...

 

[-Se7en-]

It's don't understand how people complain about DThrow to Uair which isn't even a true combo but don't complain about Diddy's Frame Traps.

Oh and bananas are super important because you can throw them in shield. Nana throw is much larger and safer than something such as Ftilt or fsmash and if the nana connects it's pretty much a free grab. Grab = momentum starter.

2nd Edit : Fox has a grab combo in Melee that kills too and is guaranteed so don't get grabbed.

 

[Tristan_win]

All testing was done on the 3DS, in Vs mode with handicaps. Results were gather by hitting Sheik with just 1 attack and then ending the match to look up the recorded 'max launcher speed'. Uair testing was based around the idea that Diddy Kong uair does not have a sweet spot, please correct me if it does in fact have one.

Spoiler

Uair

Diddy Kong 0%, Sheik 0%
64KB
50,0
65KB
60,0
66KB
80,0
67KB
100,0
69KB
125,0
71KB
150,0
73KB
Diddy Kong 0%, Sheik 0%
64KB
0,10
69KB
0,20
74KB
Dthrow
Diddy Kong 0%, Sheik 0%
67KB
50,0
69KB
60,0
69KB
80, 0
71KB
100,0
72
125,0
74
150,0
76
Diddy Kong 0%, Sheik 0%
67KB
0,10
69KB
0,20
71KB
0,30
73KB
0,40
74KB
0,50
76KB

TLTR or think about.

Rage barely effects Diddy Kong uair at all.
Rage is weak on Diddy Kong dthrow.

 

[Ganreizu]

To grab > KO someone at 100% with next to no effort is ridicolous.

No one complains about ness bthrow though, even though it's way less effort than dthrow uair. o.o

 

[Nammy12]

No one complains about ness bthrow though, even though it's way less effort than dthrow uair. o.o

To be fair though, that needs to be done decently close to the edge.
Diddy can do d-throw from any part of the stage.

 

[Pierrot99]

Hello ! I'm french so I will try to speak english, sorry for the mistakes.

One month ago, I could do D-throw to U-air to kill, but now I don't know why, very often the character moves on the left or right (not a DI but just after the trow) and I can't do a U-air. Sometimes, instead I can do a B-air but it not kill.
I think maybe it's because I use too much D-throw but it's juste a supposition.
For exemple I D-throw ZSS at 110% , I jump 2× but ZSS is on the left so I miss my kill
can you help me .
Thanks

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's don't understand how people complain about DThrow to Uair which isn't even a true combo but don't complain about Diddy's Frame Traps.

Oh and bananas are super important because you can throw them in shield. Nana throw is much larger and safer than something such as Ftilt or fsmash and if the nana connects it's pretty much a free grab. Grab = momentum starter.

2nd Edit : Fox has a grab combo in Melee that kills too and is guaranteed so don't get grabbed.

Am just saying! Not only that, 's U Air kills earlier than 's to, and to top it has a crazy strong U Smash as well that can kill earlier than anything can dish out, except maybe a D Air gimp.

Just get gud.

 

[Tristan_win]

Am just saying! Not only that, 's U Air kills earlier than 's to, and to top it has a crazy strong U Smash as well that can kill earlier than anything can dish out, except maybe a D Air gimp.

Just get gud.

>.>

Training mode, cpu set to control (no DI) Diddy uair vs Fox uair on Mario standing on battle field platform

Fox 132% 'kill effect' appears
Diddy 143% 'Kill effect' appears

So yes it is technically stronger but Diddy can reliably combo into his uair in killing percents while fox....

 

[Pierrot99]

Have you got the same problem as me ?

 

[-Se7en-]

>.>

Training mode, cpu set to control (no DI) Diddy uair vs Fox uair on Mario standing on battle field platform

Fox 132% 'kill effect' appears
Diddy 143% 'Kill effect' appears

So yes it is technically stronger but Diddy can reliably combo into his uair in killing percents while fox....

I think he's referring to Melee Fox because everyone automatically assumes Diddy's Uair is broken.

Just don't get grabbed guys. Diddy isn't all that in the Neutral.

"Oh I keep getting grabbed and it's totally not my fault for letting myself get grabbed or anything!"

 

[GameWatching]

It's don't understand how people complain about DThrow to Uair which isn't even a true combo but don't complain about Diddy's Frame Traps.

Oh and bananas are super important because you can throw them in shield. Nana throw is much larger and safer than something such as Ftilt or fsmash and if the nana connects it's pretty much a free grab. Grab = momentum starter.

2nd Edit : Fox has a grab combo in Melee that kills too and is guaranteed so don't get grabbed.

Dthrow to Uair is definitely the most used move in comp play and definitely the better. And escaping it (when you're saying it's not even a true combo) is nowhere easy.

Oh, and don't say don't get grabbed because grabs simply happen too often in Sm4sh.