Cyr Bair

[Noxus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=graQg4TaJJs&list=UU5H5mR_D8aYZNHxYKvL6S-w
I have been watching quite a bit of the French Samus Cyr and i have noticed he uses Bairs really well to kill spacies when they up B off stage. If you watch the first two stocks, you can see how effective they are. Im curious as to why more top Samus players dont use this kind of off stage edge guard?

 

[Litt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=graQg4TaJJs&list=UU5H5mR_D8aYZNHxYKvL6S-w
I have been watching quite a bit of the French Samus Cyr and i have noticed he uses Bairs really well to kill spacies when they up B off stage. If you watch the first two stocks, you can see how effective they are. Im curious as to why more top Samus players dont use this kind of off stage edge guard?

Because first and foremost... its a huge commitment... the reason you see Cyr do that more often that others is because he hasnt developed his other options or he particularly likes that one and relys on that one too frequently, the reason you don't see better samuses using it... is because they throw it in as a mix up but dont rely on it as much. Its a good option, we all know it, but we try not to go for it most of the time, because there are better... faster... and smarter options. (Samus's tippered bair is actually the strongest bair in the game, so no **** its a good option, its just hard to set up for, and if you have the time for it, there are probably about 2-4 other options you could have used that would have done the job just as effectively)

 

[Mervis]

Is it just me or is that Fox not that great. He panic firefoxed which led to the several Bair gimps. He seemed like he was playing scared.

 

[Noxus]

Yeah the fox wasn't the best, it was just an example of the offstage Bair

 

[Mervis]

I mean they were solid Bairs but that guy didn't rethink his recovery game and continued to let the Bairs hit him.

 

[Litt]

Yeah the fox wasn't the best, it was just an example of the offstage Bair

Noxus... just please listen to yourself. An example of an off stage bair... calling it a cyr bair... cmon bud, that has been around for ages, every quality samus player can land it, we just don't do it over and over because we are competent players, you got your answer now just please stop.

Edit* after rereading this, came off a little mean. Let me rephrase, using a move in a specfic location to accomplish something can be useful to take note of, especially if you dont see it being done often, however use your best judgement when posting, because im sure hundreds of other samuses understand the utility of a very obvious move, as well as places where they can apply it. If you were to talk about a certain samus and their utility of up smash in which they can use it effectively, and consistently, then that topic would be worth exploring. however an offstage bair is just common sense, just think about when its best to use it, and when other options would be more optimal

 

[xbombr]

Is it just me or is that Fox not that great. He panic firefoxed which led to the several Bair gimps. He seemed like he was playing scared.

Definitely seemed uncomfortable with the match up. He couldn't break the Samus's zoning or spacing at all. His recovery was also not nearly varied enough which is why the Samus was able to Bair him offstage all the time.

All of those were high recoveries with up+b, which is notably one of the worst options a fox has against someone unafraid to go out after him. Had the fox mixed up his recovery options more and played the match up properly ( so that he didn't fall behind so badly) the offstage Bairs would have been not nearly as effective and probably attempted less (assuming the Samus player knows what they're doing).

Honestly, I waited the entire match for the fox to get a Uthrow and abuse the crap out of Samus being floaty, but it never happened. Absolutely 0 pressure applied to Samus. Really this type of case is the only one where a Samus player has a massive advantage against Fox. Fox can't do anything to a Samus when they are too afraid to recover properly or get inside and get grabs.

 

[Litt]

Definitely seemed uncomfortable with the match up. He couldn't break the Samus's zoning or spacing at all. His recovery was also not nearly varied enough which is why the Samus was able to Bair him offstage all the time.

All of those were high recoveries with up+b, which is notably one of the worst options a fox has against someone unafraid to go out after him. Had the fox mixed up his recovery options more and played the match up properly ( so that he didn't fall behind so badly) the offstage Bairs would have been not nearly as effective and probably attempted less (assuming the Samus player knows what they're doing).

Honestly, I waited the entire match for the fox to get a Uthrow and abuse the crap out of Samus being floaty, but it never happened. Absolutely 0 pressure applied to Samus. Really this type of case is the only one where a Samus player has a massive advantage against Fox. Fox can't do anything to a Samus when they are too afraid to recover properly or get inside and get grabs.

I honestly didnt even watch the match, but I agree with pretty much all of ^^^

 

[343]

aw man the Cyr vs Baxon game I linked from a few months ago was never put on highlights, so Twitch removed it Baxon (who's actually good, and probably knows the matchup since he and Cyr are two of the top French players and probably play in tournament somewhat often) also tended to try recovering really early / high, and Cyr sniped him with backair a bunch of times.

I think if you have a spacy scared to recover low, this kind of backair is a reasonable counter to high up-bs; you just have to be suuuuper accurate.

 

[HolePuncher]

I'm gonna give this a try and see how much success I get with it. More options and mixups can't hurt as long as you are smart about it.

My guess is that the effectiveness of this option is similar to samus's run-off nair edgeguard:

1) Really good if you can take your opponent by surprise, but....
2) If your opponent expects it, you'll never land it, and...
3) If you whiff or trade poorly, you're now in a really bad spot

 

[Noxus]

aw man the Cyr vs Baxon game I linked from a few months ago was never put on highlights, so Twitch removed it Baxon (who's actually good, and probably knows the matchup since he and Cyr are two of the top French players and probably play in tournament somewhat often) also tended to try recovering really early / high, and Cyr sniped him with backair a bunch of times.

I think if you have a spacy scared to recover low, this kind of backair is a reasonable counter to high up-bs; you just have to be suuuuper accurate.

Haha yep, you got me into Cyr I saw that match against baxon here is the link :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn8Ptd3W8nU&index=9&list=LLnSSoJIrh6ixVRsHNw3tezQ