Current Zelda Tech

[BirdyBirds]

Now that zelda mains have played zelda since the 3.5 changes, what are the current zelda techs that this patch has to offer? I see many threads with outdated information such as air-dodging out of teleport or naru's love changes that have been removed since 3.5 began, can we get a current list of zelda tech that future zelda mains should easily find and study?

 

[4tlas]

http://smashboards.com/threads/trif...es-a-community-effort-this-week-ftilt.347647/

This thread is stickied and should have good stuff for you. If you don't want to search through it I can try to summarize what I know for you, but be warned that I use very little tech and am likely to miss things.

Most Zelda tech comes from the weird applications of her special b moves. All are wavebounceable of course, but somehave weird properties when used out of hitstun. UpB and DownB can fly high into the air by jumping out of hitstun and immediately performing the move, and UpB and DownB can fly sideways by using them out of hitstun without jumping.

NeutralB behaves oddly when b-reversed or wavebounced. I don't know the specifics, but they are on page 8 of that thread I believe (maybe 7 or 9).

UpB can be cancelled at any time similar to Fox Illusion, appearing immediately without the 4% fire hitbox. This allows you to act near immediately. If you also start the teleport on the ground, you can act even faster.

Transform time is dependent upon the load speed of the device you are playing on.

 

[Vitriform]

Other Zelda tech includes orbital Din's Fire, SH Fair/Bair/Nair -> Waveland, Bair to Fair shield crossups, SH double Bair and SH Bair -> Fair, Farore's Wind ledge stalling (drop from ledge, then jump and immediately hit up-B), edge-cancelled teleports, ribbon dashing (kind of like waveshining, but with the teleport), and Nayru's Glide (use neutral B out of hitstun to travel long distances horizontally).

 

[Luis Alonso]

I can literally do all those techniques with the SOLE exception of Nayru's Glide. It always eludes me.

 

[BlackMamba]

I can literally do all those techniques with the SOLE exception of Nayru's Glide. It always eludes me.

Practice by letting a Marth or Roy hit with fsmash then following the instructions in the thread. That's how I learned. My issue now is remembering to do it lol

 

[BirdyBirds]

@ 4tlas and @ Vitriform , thanks for the posts! currently practicing wavebouncing nayrus and short hop nayrus for zero landing lag.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Never underestimate the utility of Zelda's air dodge. Wave dash consistently, and practice wave dash OoS and out of aerials. It might not be unique to Zelda but it's one of out most vital spacing tools.

Teleporting between platforms might not look like tech skill to the untrained eye, but it can be incredibly difficult and frustrating o perform in a pinch. You should be able to consistently teleport down from platforms, across platforms of different stages, from the stage to a platform, from a platform to the ledge, and from the air to the ledge. You should also experiment with edge cancelled shortened teleports because that technology is largely if not completely unexplored. Is all this teleporting getting too easy? Do it all OoS. That too easy? Set a team of lvl 9 Fox's against you and all you can do is Farore's Wind OoS.

Try and get your land cancelled Nayru's Love as close to the ground as possible. Then b-reverse them. Then wave-bounce them. I have intentionally chosen not to learn how to Nayru's glide because I don't enjoy the tech, similarly to how I don't like multishining, shino stalling, or double jump cancelling; it just doesn't captivate me. Besides, I'd rather focus on having good combo DI in the first place so I can save my jump. It has also taught how to SDI and DSDI out of combos more consistently. I rarely get caught in Ness's PK fire or Mewtwo's nair now. Also, can you Nayru's Love OoS? B-reverse the grounded version OoS? Learn how because it can be very useful.

Know how your Din's Fire works. When does it disconect? What "turns off" it's hit-box? At what angles can you start an orbit? You can get some really fun chains with orbiting Din's, practice them (http://gfycat.com/AngelicIndelibleIndianabat). Figure out it's detonation timing. Did you know you can wave-land out of the refresh animation of side special? You can also b-reverse and wave-bounce this animation, allowing you to change your aerial momentum when a Din is returning to you.

Mess around with the auto cancelled first hit of up air. It's a very powerful punish tool in hard punishes since it can lead instantly into a grab or tilt. It sets up perfectly for lightning kicks and up airs at most percents. Auto cancelled up airs are also a great option to have against tether recoveries.

 

[Luis Alonso]

Wait. That was THE FatGoku? Going for the stupidest read ever? I expect better from him, based on what Mofat says.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Wait. That was THE FatGoku? Going for the stupidest read ever? I expect better from him, based on what Mofat says.

In that set I'd asked him to go Falco so he was going for all kinds of silly stuff like that. He beats me regularly so I don't blame him for going for silly stuff like that.

 

[BirdyBirds]

when i use dins, the only time i get it to circle me is when it's huge and i'm jumping in big circles back and forth to circle it around me. how do you get dins to just auto circle around you standing still like that? just something to learn and practice? also how many frames after the jump should you nayru's to auto cancel it upon landing asap? what is nayru's glide and how do you use it? can you b-reverse up-b to stop yourself from drifting below the ledge of stages? (thus making me pineapple on dreamland/smashville). any other tips anyone could give?

 

[Luis Alonso]

He was standing in a position where Din's could NOT possibly travel back to him through normal means.

And Din's could not return back to him while he was in the radius of the orbital. It happens, especially if you know your Din's well.

 

[HalcyonDays]

Teleporting between platforms might not look like tech skill to the untrained eye, but it can be incredibly difficult and frustrating o perform in a pinch. You should be able to consistently teleport down from platforms, across platforms of different stages, from the stage to a platform, from a platform to the ledge, and from the air to the ledge. You should also experiment with edge cancelled shortened teleports because that technology is largely if not completely unexplored. Is all this teleporting getting too easy? Do it all OoS. That too easy? Set a team of lvl 9 Fox's against you and all you can do is Farore's Wind OoS.

I've been practicing this tech mostly in Battlefield, but I still have lots of trouble teleporting from the base of the stage to the higher platforms. The only thing I can think of is just getting the timing down for the cancel input.

Is there any other way to reliably sweetspot your cancelled teleports onto platforms above you, or is it just memorizing the timing of the cancel?

Also, the second-bolded portion, I know that you need to input your desired direction to the ledge from the air, and then let go once Zelda disappears to sweetspot, but how sensitive is it? I'm guessing it requires mastery of the control stick to get the input directions "in between" the normal 8 directions?

 

[4tlas]

I've been practicing this tech mostly in Battlefield, but I still have lots of trouble teleporting from the base of the stage to the higher platforms. The only thing I can think of is just getting the timing down for the cancel input.

Is there any other way to reliably sweetspot your cancelled teleports onto platforms above you, or is it just memorizing the timing of the cancel?

Also, the second-bolded portion, I know that you need to input your desired direction to the ledge from the air, and then let go once Zelda disappears to sweetspot, but how sensitive is it? I'm guessing it requires mastery of the control stick to get the input directions "in between" the normal 8 directions?

Just gotta get used to the timing, I think.

You don't have to be very precise, but the further you are the more precise you have to be (because that's how angles work yay geometry). Zelda rides along floors, so aiming further toward the stage is fine (and assures you won't plummet to your death if you screw up).

 

[Downdraft]

Don't get used to the timing. Telecancelling is off by 2 frames and should be corrected in 3.6.

 

[4tlas]

Don't get used to the timing. Telecancelling is off by 2 frames and should be corrected in 3.6.

I thought it was 2 extra frames of lag before being allowed to act, not 2 extra frames from hitting the button to appearing. Only the great Magus knows.

 

[HalcyonDays]

So I should hold off on this one till it's addressed in 3.6 then right?
The idea was that I wanted to use it possibly as a way to avoid spawn invincibility, or just creating or closing space between my opponent and myself.

Wish we could act quicker out of a teleport cancel, even if it's only an aerial teleport cancel. Or at least fast-fall after re-appearance.

Out of curiosity, was 3.02 teledashing a better way of teleporting around platforms?

Anyways, it's just so stylin' when your character can do stuff like this.


https://youtu.be/xSS8NmtFH04?t=31s

http://gfycat.com/BitterRequiredFruitbat

 

[Downdraft]

I thought it was 2 extra frames of lag before being allowed to act, not 2 extra frames from hitting the button to appearing. Only the great Magus knows.

I believe you're correct, but either way the change matters. If you're telecanceling around the stage for mindgames and positioning, then the 2 added frames of action delay are significant.

So I should hold off on this one till it's addressed in 3.6 then right?
The idea was that I wanted to use it possibly as a way to avoid spawn invincibility, or just creating or closing space between my opponent and myself.

Wish we could act quicker out of a teleport cancel, even if it's only an aerial teleport cancel. Or at least fast-fall after re-appearance.

Out of curiosity, was 3.02 teledashing a better way of teleporting around platforms?

Anyways, it's just so stylin' when your character can do stuff like this.


https://youtu.be/xSS8NmtFH04?t=31s

http://gfycat.com/BitterRequiredFruitbat

Don't hold off on practicing the technique. Just don't get accustomed to the timing as it is now.
3.02 teledash was a better way of moving around platforms, for if you overshot the platform you could just waveland onto it versus being caught in lag for overshooting platforms in 3.5. Framewise I don't know, but it seems like 3.02 teledash allowed you to act out if it quicker too.

 

[4tlas]

I believe you're correct, but either way the change matters. If you're telecanceling around the stage for mindgames and positioning, then the 2 added frames of action delay are significant.

Don't hold off on practicing the technique. Just don't get accustomed to the timing as it is now.
3.02 teledash was a better way of moving around platforms, for if you overshot the platform you could just waveland onto it versus being caught in lag for overshooting platforms in 3.5. Framewise I don't know, but it seems like 3.02 teledash allowed you to act out if it quicker too.

The added 2 frames, if in the area I suggested, would not affect his ability to cancel onto platforms properly. It would just affect his usage of it as a tool.

3.02 teledash had the same endlag (minus those 2 frames) as the ground-to-ground teleshort, according to Magus.

 

[TimeSmash]

I'm also wondering how to get a reliable Din's orbit, or what that technique would even be called besides Orbiting/ Din's Oribiting haha.

Sorry I keep responding to all these Zelda threads at once I am very bored

 

[WhiteCrow]

I'm also wondering how to get a reliable Din's orbit, or what that technique would even be called besides Orbiting/ Din's Oribiting haha.

Sorry I keep responding to all these Zelda threads at once I am very bored

If you don't refresh 'em they'll die. The threads I mean, not Din's.

If you want to consistently create an orbiting Din's Fire (I really don't think it needs a name) there are some things you need to keep in mind. 1) The Din wants to return to a very specific point of Zelda. You'll notice that it sometimes passes through her hands and feet while staying active, so there is a section of Zelda that inactivates the Din's. Find that section and make that the center of your orbit. 2) The Din can only make left and right turns and it will constantly make turns to try and get to the point discussed in 1. 3) When Zelda is invisible the Din will lock in a set path until she reappears. 4) An orbit occurs when a Din is convinced that only turning in one direction is the optimal way of returning to Zelda, and she is in the center of that orbit. 5) Din's of all sizes have different turn radius's. The size of your Din greatly impacts how easy it is to create and maintain an orbit, and whether or not you'll need to use teleportation to create the orbit.

I'll write up something more academic when I have time, but if you need a way to practice orbits here is mine: Turn on debug mode, go to a random stage, and try and create orbits. Start with the largest size Din because it moves slowly and has a wide turning radius. Use double jumps, refreshing side specials, and air dodges to keep the Din chasing you. When you refresh a Din with side special it pauses for a moment which can make predicting it's movement easier. You can also b-reverse and wave-bounce this animation to increase your mobility and trick up the Din and your opponents.

 

[4tlas]

I was convinced the tiniest orbiting Dins had no use because I was only thinking about the neutral game.

In a friendly earlier I had someone walk into the mine right in front of my face, so I lined up an fsmash (intended to be an ftilt, but I panicked). Just as the fsmash was going to knock them away, Dins looped around and locked them in place. I panic fsmashed again, and then realized why this had happened. I refreshed the hitbox. Dins looped around again. Panic fsmash (due to not having much time since I was refreshing Dins). Refresh Dins again. Dins looped again. This continued until Dins expired, letting me rack up damage from 0~90% and then outright killing with an fsmash on the edge of FoD because my opponent was laughing too hard to recover at all.

It was glorious.

 

[HalcyonDays]

Might be a newbish, basic question, but what does it mean to "refresh" a Din? All I know is, you can fire a Din's as normal with Side-B, and then detonate and recall the Din's with Side B once more. Is it a way to lengthen the "lifespan" of a Din's, when it's traveling back after being recalled?

 

[justanull]

Might be a newbish, basic question, but what does it mean to "refresh" a Din? All I know is, you can fire a Din's as normal with Side-B, and then detonate and recall the Din's with Side B once more. Is it a way to lengthen the "lifespan" of a Din's, when it's traveling back after being recalled?

The only 'refresh' when it is traveling back is the refresh of the hitbox onto the Din's Fire; after touching something, it goes away and can be re-added.

 

[4tlas]

It is a quick animation that refreshes the hitbox.

I guess that means I refreshed it before each fsmash but I fsmash'd before they got hit, but I don't really remember. It locked them in place for 4-5 fsmashes and it all happened stupid fast.

 

[TimeSmash]

It is a quick animation that refreshes the hitbox.

I guess that means I refreshed it before each fsmash but I fsmash'd before they got hit, but I don't really remember. It locked them in place for 4-5 fsmashes and it all happened stupid fast.

So just using Side B again?

 

[WhiteCrow]

Might be a newbish, basic question, but what does it mean to "refresh" a Din? All I know is, you can fire a Din's as normal with Side-B, and then detonate and recall the Din's with Side B once more. Is it a way to lengthen the "lifespan" of a Din's, when it's traveling back after being recalled?

I never thought about it but yeah, there isn't really a word for how her side special works. I use refresh because it's easier to say than explain. After you have placed a Din's Fire mine on the stage it sits in the spot with an active hit box. It detonates after 3 seconds or when Zelda presses side special again. When a mine detonates it will return with an active hit box. If a mine is disarmed (swatted away by a hit box or shielded) the animation will still return to Zelda but it loses it's active hit box. You can refresh that active hit box by pressing side special again, making it detonate.

P.S. This is a little harder to explain, but when a Din's Fire that is returning to Zelda has it's hit box removed (through hitting an opponent, being shielded, or meeting another hit box) it is only inactive for the player that disarmed the trap. So, if a Din is returning to you and a player disarms it then it can still hit other players. This is allows the returning Din to hit Popo and Nana without being refreshed. You can use this in teams to aid teammates by letting them purposefully disarm your traps so it won't hurt them while still hitting opponents.

 

[TimeSmash]

I never thought about it but yeah, there isn't really a word for how her side special works. I use refresh because it's easier to say than explain. After you have placed a Din's Fire mine on the stage it sits in the spot with an active hit box. It detonates after 3 seconds or when Zelda presses side special again. When a mine detonates it will return with an active hit box. If a mine is disarmed (swatted away by a hit box or shielded) the animation will still return to Zelda but it loses it's active hit box. You can refresh that active hit box by pressing side special again, making it detonate.

P.S. This is a little harder to explain, but when a Din's Fire that is returning to Zelda has it's hit box removed (through hitting an opponent, being shielded, or meeting another hit box) it is only inactive for the player that disarmed the trap. So, if a Din is returning to you and a player disarms it then it can still hit other players. This is allows the returning Din to hit Popo and Nana without being refreshed. You can use this in teams to aid teammates by letting them purposefully disarm your traps so it won't hurt them while still hitting opponents.

Oh good. That's what I thought and have known and I was like, is there another way to refresh it or something? hahaha

 

[4tlas]

A few corrections: the Din mine stays out for FOUR seconds in 3.5. When someone clanks the Dins mine, it spawns the moving Dins which has to be clanked separately. A lingering hitbox (or the remainder of the initial attack, dependent on length) will clank the mine + wisp. When an individual player clanks the hitbox, it is only removed for that player. The explosion hitbox is a different hitbox and (I believe) transcendent, as I have never seen anyone clank it even when I think they should.

 

[WhiteLightnin]

I've been practicing this tech mostly in Battlefield, but I still have lots of trouble teleporting from the base of the stage to the higher platforms. The only thing I can think of is just getting the timing down for the cancel input.

Is there any other way to reliably sweetspot your cancelled teleports onto platforms above you, or is it just memorizing the timing of the cancel?

Also, the second-bolded portion, I know that you need to input your desired direction to the ledge from the air, and then let go once Zelda disappears to sweetspot, but how sensitive is it? I'm guessing it requires mastery of the control stick to get the input directions "in between" the normal 8 directions?

Yes, there is a way to make teleporting up to the platforms a little bit easier, but it will depend on your positioning in relation to the platform when you teleport. I believe 4tlas hinted at it with his response. As you know, there is a certain time window in which you can input your cancel in order to grab the platform. That window is active while Zelda is within the proper range to cancel onto the platform. By changing the angle of approach to the platform you also change the duration that time window is open. Basically, the closer you can get to horizontally approaching the platform, the longer range of time you have for your input. For example, approaching the top battlefield platform from straight below (90 degrees) is going to give you the smallest timing window possible for successfully canceling onto it. If you were to teleport to that top platform from under either of the other two platforms or edges, you will have gained a longer window to make your cancel. I hope that helps.

 

[4tlas]

I was talking about teleporting downward to sweetspot the ledge, but it does work both ways as WhiteLightnin said.

What I meant was that aiming for the ledge requires a more specific angle the further away you are.

The "opposite" is also true, that an angled approach will be touching the platform for more time, and thus the window should be easier. I'm not sure if its true due to the way the game engine works, but it certainly is true in terms of plain old geometry. I guess you could get a few extra frames of leeway.