Critique my Olimar!

[shanus]

These are wifi matches vs Ikkitrix, one of GBs high ranked ROB players. Notice how I do much better in the earlier matches then the later ones .

Tips are appreciated, I can't seem to get good combo starters on ROB with dthrow and his dmash is way too fast for shield grabs.

Also, I want to note I dont have any issues doing combos on plenty of other characters (I pulled off a sick dthrow->fair->dthrow-> fair fair dair spike on sheik 2 days ago), but ROB is a tough cookie.

The good:
Match 1 (Smashville) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoCbZRpyxJM
Match 2 (BF) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnPQ7XvKOFc
Match 4 (Final D): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akh7qStRCbs
Match 5 (FInal D): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0DxpFDq6w4 (last stock so sad)
Match 7 (Final D): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f047JPQtH7c
Match 9 (BF): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfkhl6nfUM
Match 12 (LOL): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scLyEdhvfbE (hahaha what a match)
Match 14: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXa5Hp0dCF8

The bad:
Match 3 (BF): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3eGto1VMAY
Match 6 (Final D): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBARiKDZtsE
Match 10 (FD): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRvcEjLmpk
Match 11 (Sville) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh3BgVOITRc (last stock SNIPED)

The ugly:
Match 8 (BF): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mXNBQPDRbU

 

[scalpel]

Hello. I watched a few of your "the bad" videos. Here are some important observations that I made.
-I noticed that you played very offensively against ROB. More importantly, you played very offensively at the beginning of the matches. It seems like you actually did a lot of the approaching, using Olimar's forward-air frequently. When you didn't approach, you stayed back and used a lot of forward-airs while waiting for ROB to approach you.

-Also, when you were launched into the air, I noticed that you DI'd straight into ROB, perhaps in an attempt to down-air him. When you were launched from the edge of the stage, you DI'd straight into ROB, too.

-When you grabbed ROB and down-threw him, you almost always followed with an up-smash.

-You allowed ROB to gain control of the center of the stage, frequently.

-ROB's laser hit you 95-100% of the time, successfully.

Here are some suggestions:
1) When your opponent is at zero to low percentages, throwing Pikmin is at its peak damage potential. In the beginning of matches, it might help if you played more defensively, especially since ROB is a large and easy target for throwing Pikmin at. Try to resist the urge to approach him with forward-airs at the beginning of the match. Your goal is to rack up damage FIRST, THEN play offensively if you want to. You want to gain control of the stage. If you approach ROB when he's at low percentages, you're putting yourself at risk of getting hurt. As Olimar, you can avoid getting hurt by using Olimar's range to your advantage.

2) One very important decision you made, especially in the first "the bad" video, was that you chose to DI directly towards ROB. This can be both good and bad. The good part about DI'ing into your opponent is that it can be surprising. The bad part, which I saw in the videos, was that it can be easily predictable when done over and over again. It is just too convenient for your opponent when you DI into them. First, it's easy for them to hit you when you are moving towards them. Second, there's not much you can do after being launched. So, instead of trying to DI into ROB and attack him, your first priority should be landing on the stage and spacing yourself. Your goal is to regain your control of the stage, and you cannot do this by being so offensive all of the time. If you want to DI into your opponent, I suggest air-dodging or using Olimar's whistle armor to avoid getting knocked around FIRST, then attack. Don't DI into your opponent and immediately try down-airing so predictably.

3) You expressed some frustrations in combo-ing ROB after down-throwing in your original post. Well, you can follow a down-throw with other attacks than just up-smashing. Don't take this the wrong way, because up-smashing an opponent is a great follow-up to a down-throw because, if successful, it will launch your opponent into the air, which gives more offensive opportunities. However, instead of down-throwing and up-smashing all of the time, you can follow your down-throw with a short-hopped forward-air. You can chain this combo by grabbing your opponent again, down-throwing, and attacking with a forward-air, and repeat. It should be quite easy to do on ROB, since he's a very big opponent.

4) I noticed that you played on the edge of the stage, a lot. While this isn't necessarily always bad, it is bad when you're at low percentages. You're putting yourself at risk of getting launched off the stage and edge-hogged. This is not a risk worth taking at low percentages. When you're at very high percentages, you should be anticipating your own death, and therefore, you can resort to anything to damaging or killing your opponent. My point is, try to stay in the middle of the stage at lower percentages. When you're at higher percentages, you should be more comfortable with playing on the edge.

5) You were hit by ROB's laser almost every time. Most of the time, it's not very strong, but that is a consistent 10-15% damage you're receiving. I believe this is because of your offensive fighting style. You are open to getting hit by his laser because you approach him a lot. If you play defensively, you can learn to anticipate his laser. Plus, if you're standing on the ground and duck, the laser will go right over your head if ROB doesn't shoot at an angle. If you jump a lot, and especially towards him, the laser will most definitely hit, and you will have no opportunity to shield it because you're in the air.

I hope this helps.

EDIT: I added a 5th point.

 

[shanus]

Hello. I watched a few of your "the bad" videos. Here are some important observations that I made.
-I noticed that you played very offensively against ROB. More importantly, you played very offensively at the beginning of the matches. It seems like you actually did a lot of the approaching, using Olimar's forward-air frequently. When you didn't approach, you stayed back and used a lot of forward-airs while waiting for ROB to approach you.
-Also, when you were launched into the air, I noticed that you DI'd straight into ROB, perhaps in an attempt to down-air him. When you were launched from the edge of the stage, you DI'd straight into ROB, too.
-When you grabbed ROB and down-threw him, you almost always followed with an up-smash.
-You allowed ROB to gain control of the center of the stage, frequently.

Here are some suggestions:
1) When your opponent is at zero to low percentages, throwing Pikmin is at its peak damage potential. In the beginning of matches, it might help if you played more defensively, especially since ROB is a large and easy target for throwing Pikmin at. Try to resist the urge to approach him with forward-airs at the beginning of the match. Your goal is to rack up damage FIRST, THEN play offensively if you want to. You want to gain control of the stage. If you approach ROB when he's at low percentages, you're putting yourself at risk of getting hurt. As Olimar, you can avoid getting hurt by using Olimar's range to your advantage.
2) One very important decision you made, especially in the first "the bad" video, was that you chose to DI directly towards ROB. This can be both good and bad. The good part about DI'ing into your opponent is that it can be surprising. The bad part, which I saw in the videos, was that it can be easily predictable when done over and over again. It is just too convenient for your opponent when you DI into them. First, it's easy for them to hit you when you are moving towards them. Second, there's not much you can do after being launched. So, instead of trying to DI into ROB and attack him, your first priority should be landing on the stage and spacing yourself. Your goal is to regain your control of the stage, and you cannot do this by being so offensive all of the time. If you want to DI into your opponent, I suggest air-dodging or using Olimar's whistle armor to avoid getting hit FIRST, then attack. Don't DI into your opponent and immediately try down-airing so predictably.
3) You expressed some frustrations in combo-ing ROB after down-throwing in your original post. Well, you can follow a down-throw with other attacks than just up-smashing. Don't take this the wrong way, because up-smashing an opponent is a great follow-up to a down-throw because, if successful, it will launch your opponent into the air, which gives more offensive opportunities. However, instead of down-throwing and up-smashing all of the time, you can follow your down-throw with a short-hopped forward-air. You can chain this combo by grabbing your opponent again, down-throwing, and attacking with a forward-air, and repeat. It should be quite easy to do on ROB, since he's a very big opponent.
4) I noticed that you played on the edge of the stage, a lot. While this isn't necessarily always bad, it is bad when you're at low percentages. You're putting yourself at risk of getting launched off the stage and edge-hogged. This is not a risk worth taking at low percentages. When you're at very high percentages, you should be anticipating your own death, and therefore, you can resort to anything to damaging your killing your opponent. My point is, try to stay in the middle of the stage at lower percentages. When you're at higher percentages, you should be more comfortable with playing on the edge.

I hope this helps.

thanks for your long reply. However, the bad was a highlight of Ikki getting a nice jump on me so to say. However, you have some valid and invalid points.

Getting back on the stage against ROB is especially difficult and air dodging through is fairly risky, especially against nair happy ROBs. Although you are right, i should add variation to my DI and return, but it also depends if I purple pikmin in my arsenal to defend against a ledgehog.

Also, dthrow to fair is easily airdodged by ROB, i tried mixing up a lot of different approaches. It isnt repeatable, especially as if you have played a good ROB, you will see them abuse their jab/downsmash instantly after aerials making it next to impossible to get another throw off. Sometimes even nair was useful against the air dodge. However at times, I tried to do dthrow to upsmash charged to try and punish the air dodge, but many times it was without success.

And I tend to camp the edge a bit more as it limited his approaches while highlighting mine. Earlier on, it was easy for me to be aggressive and command the middle, but later he kept the pressure on me and it forced me to camp the sides more. It's a surprisingly hard matchup

 

[shanus]

bump for progress related justice

 

[Triplehelix2.0]

You were playing too offensively against an aggressive ROB player, who has more priority. Try to play in a more defensive matter and don't use the fair as much (I have the same exact problems)

 

[scalpel]

thanks for your long reply. However, the bad was a highlight of Ikki getting a nice jump on me so to say. However, you have some valid and invalid points.

Getting back on the stage against ROB is especially difficult and air dodging through is fairly risky, especially against nair happy ROBs. Although you are right, i should add variation to my DI and return, but it also depends if I purple pikmin in my arsenal to defend against a ledgehog.

Also, dthrow to fair is easily airdodged by ROB, i tried mixing up a lot of different approaches. It isnt repeatable, especially as if you have played a good ROB, you will see them abuse their jab/downsmash instantly after aerials making it next to impossible to get another throw off. Sometimes even nair was useful against the air dodge. However at times, I tried to do dthrow to upsmash charged to try and punish the air dodge, but many times it was without success.

And I tend to camp the edge a bit more as it limited his approaches while highlighting mine. Earlier on, it was easy for me to be aggressive and command the middle, but later he kept the pressure on me and it forced me to camp the sides more. It's a surprisingly hard matchup

This is just my constructive criticism to you. You can take it, leave it, crush it up and throw it in the pile of rubbish, whatever you fancy. When I said that you spend a lot of time on the edge of the stage, I meant that you did this when you were in the low-to-middle percentages. For example, in 2:30 on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnPQ7XvKOFc You stood at the edge of the stage, waiting for ROB to approach you. As a result, you were launched off of the stage and edge-hogged in a matter of seconds. A safer way to dodge ROB while he still has invincibility frames is to sort of play mind games with him. Stand near the edge, then jump and DI over him when he approaches, and that should be enough to avoid ROB and end up in the center of the stage, as well.

Oh yes, fighting against a ROB is difficult. There's no doubt about that. Even NC-Echo, an extremely good Olimar user, has problems with ROB. You did a lot of good things throughout your battles with ROB. I am just trying to help you add even more variety to your fighting style. For example, it's true that ROB can attack you if you down-throw him and try to short-hop forward-air him. However, ROB may not anticipate you forward-airing him after a grab. At 2:57 of the same video, he air-dodged after you threw him. He didn't expect you to forward-air him. By mixing up your strategy, you can take advantage of these little instances.

 

[scalpel]

You were playing too offensively against an aggressive ROB player, who has more priority. Try to play in a more defensive matter and don't use the fair as much (I have the same exact problems)

Triplehelix pretty much summed up the most important parts of my very long constructive criticism. Short and simple. A good way to counter an aggressive opponent is to play defensively, punishing your opponents attempt to approach you. If you watch NC-Echo's videos against ROB, which are posted in his guide, you will understand what I mean by this. Remember, we are only trying to help you by providing constructive criticism and advice, just like you requested.

 

[shanus]

Triplehelix pretty much summed up the most important parts of my very long constructive criticism. Short and simple. A good way to counter an aggressive opponent is to play defensively, punishing your opponents attempt to approach you. If you watch NC-Echo's videos against ROB, which are posted in his guide, you will understand what I mean by this. Remember, we are only trying to help you by providing constructive criticism and advice, just like you requested.

haha didnt mean to make it seem me coming across as spitting back out what you said, sorry about that. I guess i wrote a bit too much defense without acknowledging with what you said was correct. Thank you for your posts, Ikki's rob keeps the pressure on you the whole time so it can be quite difficult to maintain a strong defensive play but I guess I'll need to try it more in the future :O

 

[scalpel]

Also, dthrow to fair is easily airdodged by ROB, i tried mixing up a lot of different approaches. It isnt repeatable, especially as if you have played a good ROB, you will see them abuse their jab/downsmash instantly after aerials making it next to impossible to get another throw off. Sometimes even nair was useful against the air dodge. However at times, I tried to do dthrow to upsmash charged to try and punish the air dodge, but many times it was without success.

Here is an example of what I was trying to say:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eiBp8ysQIX8

At 2:57, you can see that Olimar can transition from a down-throw to a forward-air. I understand what you mean by not being able to repeat it. Still, it's nice to vary your combos even if it's just stringing a couple of new attacks. If the ROB is not expecting a forward-air after being down-thrown, it's quite possible to do.