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Smash Wii U Creating a Timeless Legend

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VGFan95

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Creating a Timeless Legend

15 Goals the Devs can use to help Smash Wii U unleash its Full Potential

Smash Wii U fans,

The fifteen goals that follow detail steps to take that, if implemented, will provide all players and spectators with a more entertaining, pleasing, and exceptionally polished experience.

The goals can be read within this post by expanding the spoiler tags, or a PDF can be download at the following link (the PDF contains better formatting and images):

Super Smash Bros for Wii U - Creating a Timeless Legend

If you'd like to see these goals become a part of the game, make sure to support these goals! Comment about them, Tweet about them, make a YouTube video, mention it on Twitch, share it on Facebook, Reddit, Email, tell journalists, reference them in your own blog / work, make Miiverse posts, and however else you'd like to help get these goals into Smash! Super Smash Bros Wii U will become a timeless Legend!



Creating a Timeless Legend

15 Goals the Devs can use to help Smash Wii U unleash its Full Potential



Introduction

The fifteen goals that follow detail steps to take that, if implemented, will provide all players and spectators with a more entertaining, pleasing, and exceptionally polished experience.


These goals are comprised mostly of additional and optional features, so modification of existing game material is limited. Super Smash Bros for Wii U is already a tremendous title, and only needs to be briefly expanded on to reach its full potential.


Each goal has been highlighted yellow and is presented in order of its estimated enhancement to Super Smash Bros for Wii U. This means goal #1 would be the most beneficial improvement for the game. However, goal #15 should not be overlooked.

Giving each stage a Final Destination style Omega form was a good introduction to giving each stage an anodyne form. However, the problem with giving all Omega stages a very similar design is that there is no true variance in stage layout, which leads to repetitive gameplay.

Playing on a stage without platforms also affects the character roster. Even though a flat platform-less layout is considered an innocuous stage, the Omega stage layout gives certain characters advantages and others disadvantages. This makes the entire list of Omega stages, not just a few, unintentionally tougher for many characters.

Players agree that having a large variety of anodyne and gimmick free stages would greatly enhance Smash Wii U. The Original forms of the stages provide excellent frenzied gameplay, but players also enjoy the thought of having an alternate version of each stage that retains unique attributes, but has any gimmicky features removed. Unfortunately, the Omega stages lack the diversity to fulfill this desire. Therefore, a third form of each stage, the alpha form (α) should be implemented.

Five groups would be made to classify the layout of each alpha form stage. However, for each alpha form stage, even if it is in the same group as another stage, the length of the platforms, platform position, stage size, base stage design, and / or blast zone distances will still make it unique. A few alpha stages have similarities, but no two alpha stages will be exactly the same.


Alpha Form Stages with a Three Platform layout - 12

Alpha Form Stages with a Two Platform layout - 10

Alpha Form Stages with a One Platform layout - 9

Alpha Form Stages with 0 Platform layout - 10

Alpha Form stages with an Other Layout - 14


Pages 4 - 22 describe the exact layout of each alpha form stage (with many descriptions having an accompanying image). Many alpha stages would be able to be created by recycling existing assets.


Pages 4 - 22 of the PDF describe the exact layout of each alpha form stage. There are a lot of images showing the layouts too.


The α form of all stages would need to be added as selectable choices from the stage selection screen, as well as being choices in the random stage selection menu.


For information on how alpha stages would influence stage selection during competitive tournament event play, see the Appendix.
Changes to For Glory 1 vs 1

Stage selection would randomly choose only alpha stages (see Goal #1)

Sudden Death would be disabled (see Goal #12)




Changes to For Glory 2 vs 2


The rules for 2 vs 2 For Glory should be changed to the following:

Stock 3 lives

6 minute time limit

Friendly Fire (Team Attack) ON

Items OFF

Stage selection would randomly choose only alpha stages (see Goal #1)

Sudden Death would be disabled (see Goal #12)




Changes to For Glory Free For All:

To reduce targeting of specific players and to also reduce campy play, For Glory Free for All should add the following rules to its current ruleset:

Damage Display OFF

Turn off the visual Rage effects (see Goal #13)

Increase the match time limit to 3 minutes

Sudden Death would be disabled (See Goal #12)




Change to all For Fun Modes

Allow custom moves to be used in all For Fun game modes. Equipment would still be disabled (see goal #4).




Change the way the Player Name Tag can be chosen during Online Play (for any For Fun or For Glory mode)


Why?

Unfortunately, many players online are rude, sexual/obscene, or just sore losers with their name tags. It is a shame this happens, but the issue is too frequent to ignore and it sheds a bad light on the Smash Bros. scene.


Suggested Change:

Force the name tag to be chosen prior to entering a lobby.

For example, when you choose For Glory 1 vs 1, before you are connected to anything else, a menu pops up where you choose the tag you want to play with.

Once a tag has been chosen the process of connecting to another player begins.

The tag you selected cannot be changed while you are in the lobby, and the only way to change your tag is to exit out of the lobby and start over again.


This change would get rid of the large majority of inappropriate name tags, as most of the obscene name tags only come out after a match is played.

This change would also work alongside the following matchmaking feature.




Online Matchmaking Balancing Feature for For Fun and For Glory modes

The current matchmaking method lacks sufficient balancing techniques to provide a guaranteed fun experience for all online participants. To resolve this, a balancing system should be implemented so that players of the same skill level are matched together.

To do this, before connecting to a lobby, the name tag the player chose is checked for two of its records: the total games played of the game mode selected, and the win % for the game mode selected. If the name tag has played over 80 matches of the selected game mode, then the matchmaking service attempts to pair the player with other players who have also played over 80 matches of the selected game mode and have a similar win %. There would be 5 tiers determining matchmaking balancing, based on win percentages and games played:

Tier 0: Any win % but with less than or equal to 80 games played

Tier 1: Win percentage of 0% - 34.99% after 80 games played

Tier 2: Win percentage of 35% - 52.99% after 80 games played

Tier 3: Win percentage of 53% - 74.99% after 80 games played

Tier 4: Win percentage of 75% - 100% after 80 games played

Therefore, the matchmaking service would try to pair you with an opponent that is in the same tier.

However, if the matchmaking service cannot find a matching opponent within a reasonable timeframe, the player would be paired randomly with a player who is in Tier 0 or a player who has also waited a while for a lobby.

For team game modes, both players name tags would have to have played over 80 games of the selected team game mode in order for the team to not be considered in Tier 0. If both name tags have played over 80 games of the selected team game mode, the average win % of both name tags determines the tier placement.

For example, assuming both name tags have played over 80 games, if tag1 has a win % of 85% for the chosen team game mode, and tag2 has a win % of 60% of the chosen team game mode, then the matchmaking balancing would place them team in Tier 3, because the average win % for the two tags is 72.5 %. The matchmaking service would then try to pair this team with another team that is in Tier 3.




Features for Online Tourney mode

The current Online Tourney mode lacks sufficient optionalsettings to make it desirable for many players to participate in user-created Tournaments. To resolve this, when a player is creating a Tourney, allow that player to:

- Choose the Number of players per match

- Choose the Number of Stocks

- Choose the Time Limit

- Choose to have Custom Moves Enabled/Disabled (See Goal #4)

- Choose to have Equipment Enabled/Disabled (See Goal #4)

- Choose to have Sudden Death Enabled/Disabled (See Goal #12)

- Allow players to create Bracket style tournaments (seeding is done randomly)


In addition to the optional settings above:

- Allow replays to be saved from tournament matches the player participates in.



Remote Friend Teammate Feature for 2 vs 2 online modes

When players choose to play with a remote partner in 2 vs 2 For Glory or 2 vs 2 For Fun mode, they should have the choice to invite a friend as a teammate before being connected to a lobby, rather than being forced to pair with a random remote teammate.

Most players would prefer to pair with a friend when playing 2 vs 2, but it is often difficult to physically be in the same location as the person you want to pair with.

This should not remove the ability to play with random teammates. Rather, when the player chooses the remote teammate option, the game would ask the player if he/she wants to invite a friend as a teammate before connecting to a lobby. If the player chooses "No", a random teammate will be chosen, as is currently done. If "Yes" is chosen the player can select a friend to pair with from the Friends list.
The current Training Mode is not a true representation of a Smash mode match because it lacks certain mechanics and features. To resolve this and allow players to further learn from Training Mode, the following changes should be made:


-The Rage mechanic should be factored in to attacks used in training mode. (This would not create or show a new UI Label to the player.)


-Move Staleness and Move Freshness should be factored in to attacks used in training mode.(This would not create or show a new UI Label to the player.)



-A time clock should be shown on screen to indicate how long the player has been in training mode, starting from 0:00 and counting upwards.


-The % damage of the player and the CPUs should be able to be set independently.


-Give the CPU a Shield behavior, which will make the CPU hold their shield up whenever possible.




Provide Player Coordinate Position in Training Mode

While in a training mode session, in the bottom right corner of the screen, the coordinate location of the player's character should be given in (x,y) notation. Whenever the player's character moves, the (x,y) coordinate would be updated.

Using the (x,y) coordinates, the player would be able to see how the stage designs differ, including blast zone locations, stage sizes, and platform lengths / positions. This could also be used to determine how far a character is launched by an attack.
Goal #4: Independent Equipment and Custom Move Settings

For all game modes where custom characters are allowed, provide independent settings to Enable/Disable custom moves and Enable/Disable equipment.

In other words, custom moves and equipment should be treated as separate settings. Allowing custom moves does not necessarily mean allowing equipment, and allowing equipment does not necessarily mean allowing custom moves. They would be two separate settings.

Additionally, if equipment is turned off, any buffs / debuffs an Amiibo has received from eating equipment would not apply and the stat bonuses an Amiibo receives for being at a higher level would not be applied either. However, the Amiibo will still retain its trained behavior.

Allowing equipment and custom moves to be independent settings gives players more freedom in choosing how they want to play, particularly when playing against CPUs / Amiibo or hosting an online session.
Replay Vault Features

Replays have the potential to be very valuable for the Smash community. They can be analyzed to enhance skill, shown off in pride, watched in awe, and sent out to further grow the Smash Community. However, for this to happen successfully some additional convenience features should be added to the replay vault system.


Provide the ability to sort replays in the replay vault alphabetically, using the text found in the replay's comment field.


Provide a "Delete all Replays" button in the replay vault


Replays already in the Replay vault should be able to be saved to an external storage device as a video file. When saving to the storage device, the replay would be saved there as a video file that plays at 60fps.The file name for the video file that is created would be the text in the replay’s comment.




Automatic Replay Saving Feature

Provide an option for offline Smash mode games that will Enable / Disable automatically saving the replay of any offline Smash matches played to the replay vault.

With this setting enabled, when a stage is selected on the Stage Select screen, before loading the match, Player 1 is prompted to input the name of the replay that will be saved. This name would automatically be placed in the comment section for the replay.

Once player 1 is done entering the replay name, the match would be loaded and the game would begin as usual.

When the match ends, the player will not have to choose to save the replay, because the replay will have already been recorded and can be found in the replay vault.

This feature would ensure that all matches of a tournament event or party could be easily named and saved, including off-stream matches, which allows for further growth of the Smash community.
Many players have a hard time performing short-hop jumps and / or walking slowly instead of running when desired. It would also be beneficial to be able to map Smash Attacks to the D-Pad.

Therefore:


Provide the ability to map a button on the controller that will make the character perform a short-hop jump when pressed. Nothing about the current jump button would be changed.


Provide the ability to map the D-Pad left and D-Pad right controller buttons to “Walk,” which will cause the character to walk left and right when pressed. Nothing regarding left stick inputs would change.


Provide the ability to map any D-Pad button to its respective Smash Attack.

This would allow a player to push up on the D-Pad to do an Up-Smash, down on the D-Pad to do a Down-Smash, and left and right on the D-Pad to perform a Forward-Smash.
Custom Move Shop

Provide the ability to buy new Custom Moves with gold coins. This could be setup as a shop similar to the trophy shop.



Remove the ability to receive repeat custom moves

Remove the ability to receive custom moves that are already owned as possible rewards, from any game mode.
Allow the settings in Special Smash to be applied individually per player, rather than forcing all players to have the same special settings applied to them. A potential way of doing this would be to briefly split the screen into 4 parts (like Smash Tour does when choosing players) and have each player choose the special settings they want. Each player would have to choose "Ready" when done, so that the 3 other players were able to see and agree on what was chosen.

This would allow players to setup matches similar to those found in Classic Mode and Master / Crazy Orders, such as having 1 Giant character vs 3 tiny size characters, or 1 metal character vs 3 flower characters, among many other possible combinations.

If four human players are not participating, Player 1 would set the special settings for the CPUs (if CPUs are participating).
Provide a Launch Rate setting called "Any" that will allow Launch Rate values to be set individually per player / CPU.

For example, player 1 and 2 could have launch rates of 1.5, while player 3 and 4 have a launch rate value of .7

This feature would allow players to set up games similar to Master and Crazy orders, where the Launch Rates can be different per player / CPU.
Provide a handicap setting called "Stocks" that will allow the number of starting Stocks to be set individually per player / CPU.

For example, player 1 could start the match with 3 stocks while player 2 starts the match with 5 stocks.

This would allow players to set up games similar to Classic mode and Master / Crazy Orders, where certain players / CPUs have more starting stocks than others.
Some of the characters lack an extra spark that would allow them to stand near the same level as the rest of the characters in the roster. To allow these particular characters to receive a level of recognition similar to the rest of the roster, certain minor enhancements should be given to them.

The enhancements that follow refer to the standard set of moves a character has and the standard mechanics of that character - no changes to custom moves are being presented.



Charizard

Increase Aerial Movement Speed.


Dark Pit

Greatly Increase the Knockback of Dark Pit's Arrows (Neutral Special) when they are fully charged.

Increase damage dealt by 1-3% for most of Dark Pit's attacks, so that Dark Pit is noticeably stronger than Pit.


Dr. Mario

In Team Game modes, if Dr. Mario hits a teammate with a pill (Neutral Special), that pill will heal 1% damage from that teammate, rather than dealing damage or knockback.


Falco

Reduce the time it takes Falco to put away his blaster (Neutral Special).


Ganondorf

Greatly Increase the Regeneration Rate of Ganondorf's Shield.


Jigglypuff

If an opponent is hit by Sing (Up-Special) while in the air, that opponent will go into a brief tumbling state (just as if they were Footstool-Jumped).


King Dedede

If King Dedede inhales a projectile while using Neutral Special he should immediately spit it out as a star, rather than taking a long time to swallow it. This star would deal damage and knockback, just as spitting out a character as a star does.


Link

Allow Link to hold the Hylian Shield in front of him during his run animation, so that he uses it to block projectiles that hit it while he is running forward.


Lucina

Increase Lucina's movement speeds, such that Lucina is noticeably faster than Marth.


Mega Man

Allow Mega Man to walk forward while he is charging his Forward Smash.

(Mega Man would only be able to walk forward or stand still while charging the Forward Smash. He would not be able to turn around, run, jump, or use any other actions while charging the Forward Smash. He would still have the same amount of ending lag after firing the Forward Smash.)


Mewtwo

If an opponent gets hit by Mewtwo's Disable (Down-Special), that opponent will not be able to use his/her NeutralSpecialAttack for 7 seconds.


Mr. Game & Watch

Whenever Mr. Game & Watch is grabbed, increase the potential number that Judge (Side-Special) will bring out by 1.

For example, if Mr. Game & Watch has not been grabbed yet, Judge may be any number 1-9. However, if he has been grabbed once, Judge can only be a number that is 2-9. If he has been grabbed two times, Judge can only pull out a number that is 3-9. This process would continue, such that if Mr. Game and Watch has been grabbed eight times, he is guaranteed to get a 9 when using Judge.

Whenever Mr. Game & Watch uses Judge or is KO'd, the potential number of Judge is reset to being any number 1-9.


Palutena

Increase the potency of the wind boxes on Palutena's Forward Smash and Down Smash attacks, such that the wind boxes extend out much further, will trip nearby non-shielding opponents, and push foes (including shielding foes) back a greater distance.

Reduce Autoreticle (Neutral Special) startup and ending lag.


Pit

Allow Pit to aim arrows (Neutral Special) straight downwards

After using Up-Special, allow Pit to be able to shoot arrows while he is falling. (He would not be able to perform any other attacks while falling though.)


Robin

Increase Robin's running movement speed.


Samus

Don't allow Samus to get bounced by her own morph ball bomb if she is not in morph ball mode.

Allow Samus to have two super missiles on the screen at the same time, similar to how she can have two homing missiles on screen at the same time.


Toon Link

Allow Side-Taunt to heal 20% damage from Toon Link. (This effect can only happen once per battle)


Zelda

Allow Zelda to change the direction of Phantom Slash (Down Special) before it is released. Meaning, the player can change the direction that Zelda and the purple orb are facing while the move is being charged.


Do not make Zelda go into a helpless state if she uses Din's Fire while in the air.





The remainder of the roster would remain unchanged
Why?

See the following scenario:

A player is winning by a very large damage percentage but has a tied stock count with the opponent. The losing player notices that the time clock is about to expire and begins to stall the game. The clock expires and the game proceeds to sudden death, where both players’ damage percentages are set to 300%. The player that was winning by a very large percentage earlier gets hit once by the opponent and loses the game.

Sudden Death heavily favors the losing player, which can be frustrating for many playstyles.


Suggested Feature:

For all game modes where Sudden Death is applicable, provide an optional setting to Enable/Disable going to Sudden Death when the match time expires.


With Sudden Death disabled in Stock matches, if players stocks are tied when the match clock expires, the winner is the player who has the least amount of percentage.

If stocks AND percentage are tied AND sudden death is disabled, when the match clock expires the game is brought to a modified version of Sudden Death, where damage percentages are set to 300% but the bob-ombs will never appear.


With Sudden Death disabled in Time matches, if scores are tied when the match clock expires, the winner is the player who has the least amount of percentage.

If scores AND percentage are tied AND sudden death is set to disabled, when the match clock expires the game is brought to a modified version of Sudden Death, where damage percentages are set to 300% but the bob-ombs will never appear.


With Sudden Death enabled, all games modes act as they currently do.
Currently, even if the damage display is disabled, the amount of smoke and red coloring / flashing that appears on and around characters still gives an indication of who is at low and high damage percentages during the match. This reduces the usefulness of turning off the damage display.

Hiding the indication of which players are at low and high percentages is a great feature, especially for Free For All, because it can reduce the occurrence of ganging up on a particular player and can also help reduce campy play.
Provide the ability to create offline Single Elimination and Double Elimination Bracket Style Tournaments in an offline version of Tourney Mode.

For offline tourneys, Amiibo could be scanned in as Tourney participants. CPU's would fill in any empty bracket slots that Humans and Amiibo do not fill. Similar to Melee and Brawl, passing controllers around would allow for a large number of human participants.

Offline Tournaments would be able to support up to 8 players per match. This includes the ability to create 4 vs 4 team tournaments.

Seeding for offline tournaments could be done manually or randomly.

The settings on page 26 would also be available to Offline Tourneys, and any other Rule settings could be configured prior to the tournament start.
As an additional game mode alongside Time, Stock, and Coin, provide the ability to play King of the Hill.

In King of the Hill, players have to stand on a certain platform or a certain part of the stage to gain points. This spot is called the "Hill" and generally glows to indicate it is the place the player / team needs to stand in order to gain points.

Each second a player or team stands on the Hill, they earn a point. Once a player or team reaches the score limit, the match ends and that player / team wins.

(If two or more players of opposing teams are standing on the Hill, none of the teams earn any points until there is only 1 team remaining on the Hill.)

Players would have an infinite amount of Stocks in King of the Hill, but a Time Limit could be set for the match.

Since this is a frenzied game mode, only the Original forms of the stages would support King of the Hill, and not all of the stages would be able to support King of the Hill.


The following Original form stages would support King of the Hill:


Dream Land 64 - 1 of the platforms would be the Hill. The Hill would move to the other platforms as the match progressed.

Hyrule Castle 64 - The Hill could be the spot inside the Green House, or a center platform, or the left side of the stage (the sloped part), or the top of the Green House. The Hill would move between these different spots as the match progressed.

Kalos Pokemon League - For each transformation, the Hill would be 1 of the platforms.

Big Battlefield - The Hill would be 1 of the platforms. The Hill would move to the other platforms as the match progressed.

Mushroom Kingdom U - The Hill would be 1 of the platforms during each transformation. The Hill would be absent from the Rock Candy Mines transformation.

Pyrosphere - The Hill would be one of the platforms. The Hill would move to the other platforms as the match progressed.

Midgar - The Hill would be 1 of the platforms. The Hill would move to the other platforms as the match progressed.

Palutena's Temple - The Hill could be in a variety of places on this stage. The Hill would change locations as the match progressed.

The Great Cave Offensive - The Hill could be in a variety of places on this stage. The Hill would change locations as the match progressed.

Guar Plain - 1 of the lower platforms would be the Hill. The Hill would move between the other lower platforms as the match progressed.

75 M - The Hill could be in a variety of places on this stage. The Hill would change locations as the match progressed.

Temple - The Hill could be in a variety of places on this stage. The Hill would change position as the match progressed.

Pirate Ship - The Hill could be 1 of the platforms or the King of Red Lions. The Hill would change locations as the match progressed.

Peach's Castle 64 - The Hill would be the pink outlined platform located on the upper portion of the stage.

Jungle Hijinxs - The Hill would alternate between being one of the platforms in the background and one of the platforms in the foreground.

Mario Circuit Brawl - the Hill would be the middle platform.

Norfair - The Hill would be 1 of the platforms. The Hill would move to the other platforms as the match progressed.

Pokemon Stadium 2 - For each transformation, the Hill would be 1 of the platforms. The Hill would be absent from the Flying Transformation.

Smashville - The Hill would be the moving platform.

Kongo Jungle 64 - The Hill would be 1 of the platforms. The Hill would move to the other platforms as the match progressed.
If these 15 goals were completed and implemented into Super Smash Bros Wii U, the game would no doubt be the most polished title on the Wii U. It would easily take the spot of being one of the most polished and unique games of all time, being played for many more years - likely decades.

With enough support and publicity, these goals could become part of the game and Smash Wii U could unleash its full potential! If that isn't possible, hopefully the next Smash Bros game could implement some of these goals.

If you'd like to see these goals become a part of the game, make sure to support these goals! Comment about them, Tweet about them, make a YouTube video, mention it on Twitch, share it on Facebook, Reddit, Email, tell journalists, reference them in your own blog / work, make Miiverse posts, and however else you'd like to help get these goals into Smash! Super Smash Bros Wii U will become a timeless Legend!


Author: Jeff P.

Email: gameimprovements@outlook.com Twitter: @GameImprovement and YouTube


Editors: The Smash Community


PDF Download (this document)

http://www.mediafire.com/view/7w79s67uvzsjuho/SmashWiiU_Creating_a_Legend.pdf
How would the stage and character selection process work in competitive tournament events with the addition of the alpha stages?

With the addition of the alpha stages, there is a much larger selection of legal stages to choose from. To account for this, the method of stage banning and counter picking during competitive tournament events would be modified.


Stage and Character selection process for 1vs1 sets

A) Both players sit down and choose player number / port

B) Both players select a character (blind pick rule can be used)

C) The players play rock paper scissors and strike for a starting stage. (See pages 43-45 for a list of legal stages and starter stages for 1vs1, 2vs2, and 4vs4)

D) Once a starting stage has been chosen, the first game is played.

E) If the losing player has not done so already in the set, the loser of the game chooses 1 stage from each of the five alpha stage categories.Thus, the loser will have picked 5 alpha stages total, but each selected stage is from a different alpha stage category.

F) If the winner has not banned a stage in the set yet, the winner bans one* of the stages that the loser picked in step E.


* Host discretion: some tournament organizers may decide to allow 2 bans for sets that are best 2 out of 3. For sets that are best 3 out of 5, some tournament organizers may decide to allow 0 bans.

G) The loser chooses the stage that the next game will be played on by picking a stage from the remaining 4 stages determined in step F.

H) The winner selects his/her character

I) The loser selects his/her character

J) The next game is played

K) Repeat steps E-F if needed and G-J as needed.

Other Rules

- A player cannot choose a stage he/she won on earlier in the set

- A player cannot choose a stage that was banned (by any player) earlier in the set






For 2vs2 sets, the process is the same, just replace "player" with "team."





Stage and Character selection process for 4vs4 sets that are best 2 out of 3

A) Both Teams sit down and choose player numbers / ports

B) Both Teams select characters (blind pick rule can be used)

C) The teams play rock paper scissors and strike for a starting stage

D) Once a starting stage has been chosen, the first game is played.

E) The winning team chooses 3 of the legal 4vs4 stages to ban (if they have not yet banned stages in the set)

F) The losing team chooses the stage that the next game will be played on by picking a stage from the remaining legal stages

G) The winning team selects characters

H) The losing team selects characters

I) The next game is played

K) Repeat steps E- I if needed


Other Rules

- A team cannot choose a stage they won on earlier in the set

- A team cannot choose a stage that was banned (by any team) earlier in the set





Stage and Character selection process for 4vs4 sets that are best 3 out of 5

The process and rules are the same as for best 2 out of 3, except step E only allows the winning team to ban 2 stages.





Legal Stages per Game mode (For Competitive Tournament events)

1vs1 -All alpha stages are legal except:

Mushroom Kingdom U

Windy Hill Zone

Big Battlefield

Temple

Hyrule Castle 64

Garden of Hope

Orbital Gate Assault

Pyrosphere

Norfair

Luigi's Mansion

All Original forms and all Omega forms are illegal in competitive tournament 1 vs 1





2vs2 -All alpha stages are legal except:

Port Town Aero Dive

Mushroom Kingdom U

Windy Hill Zone

Big Battlefield

Hyrule Castle 64

Garden of Hope

Orbital Gate Assault

Pyrosphere

Luigi's Mansion

All Original forms and all Omega forms are illegal in competitive tournament 2 vs 2





4vs4

The following 11 alpha stages are legal 4vs4 stages:

Mushroom Kingdom U

Windy Hill Zone

Temple

Big Battlefield

Hyrule Castle 64

Peach's Castle 64

Garden of Hope

Orbital Gate Assault

Pyrosphere

Norfair

Luigi's Mansion


Also, Big Battlefield Original is legal



All other stages are illegal in competitive tournament 4 vs 4 events






Starter Stages per Game mode (For Competitive Tournament events)



1vs1 and 2vs2

The following alpha stages are starter stages in 1vs1 and 2vs2:

Battlefield

Palutena's Temple

Yoshi's Wooly World

Pokemon Stadium 2

Castle Siege

The Great Cave Offensive

Smashville

Final Destination

Bridge of Eldin

Wii Fit Studio

Town and City





4vs4

The following 4 alpha stages are starter stages in 4vs4:

Mushroom Kingdom U

Norfair

Big Battlefield

Pyrosphere


Additionally, Big Battlefield (Original) is also a starter stage

Experience the joy that comes with this game flourishing to new heights.

This is a final revision - please refrain from suggesting additional goals or ideas and focus your support on these 15.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

T-Loc

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
20
Man, just imagine how amazing the game would be with all this. More character uniqueness like LoL, better training and replay UI like Starcraft, and diverse/important map selection like Halo 2/3? Smash 4 would become HUGE.
 

PKMudkip

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Dec 2, 2014
Messages
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Location
Final Destination, with Fox and no items
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I don't think all stages need an alpha version,maybe just ones that are really uncompetitive but other than that I agree with this. I really like the whole for glory tier placements. It makes me want to play for glory again.
 

CowlScatman

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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Im a definite fan of the alpha stages idea. I feel like if there was a for glory mode with alpha stages and the regular omega versions it would make everything way better.
 

Xermo

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Awful lot of garbage "fanboy" tier suggestions, notably in the character department. Sure, let's give mewtwo the ability to nullify the opponent's recovery at low percent; that's balanced.
A number of things also come off as pretentious and entitled as well.
 

Rinku リンク

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You've got some really good ideas going on there. I'd love for 2v2 FG to have team attack on since me and my best friend play it all the time. The tag system is also a great idea to counter the "BM" players tend to do.

The tunic thing for Link also seems pretty cool but I honestly think it's a bit over the top lol.
 

Petroklos

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Alpha mode stages, yes please.

The Samus balance changes are not enough but shooting Rockets diagonally is something I've been thinking about and sounds fun. If only they where actually good..
 

Charey

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Your Charizard changes are not well thought out. The flamethrower range would be nice but I wouldn't want the other two.

Forcing Zard into a glide while using flamethrower midair would be a huge nerf, it makes using it as a stage control tool with short hops much harder and more importantly it removes one of the few landing options Zard has when he already has a hard time getting out of juggles.

Giving any character immunity from all throw combos (which is what interrupting an opponent after all throws would do) is a horrible idea for balance.
 

pupNapoleon

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Keep in mind when responding that the overall intention of the article is to improve the gameplay experience for all players, including both casual and competitive players.
This is quite a respectable and well thought article, no question.
I'm not sure the above statement is accurate, particularly wherein For Glory would be modeled after competitive players. The article is under a working premise that For Glory is identical to competitive play. I think there is absolutely a large middle ground where players may desire to be in For Glory, for benefits such as ranking, but without the desire for such changes as longer gameplay. Such changes do not reflect the best intentions of both sides of the coin.

That said, all the changes don't need to accurately reflect both sides. I believe outright stating certain stages are for the competitive crowd may help the premise of the article, because otherwise the false pretense is somewhat distancing from the credibility the article actually carries. The competitive-bias would be fine if it were acknowledged more bluntly, without claiming it is for both casual and competitive crowds equally.

Other examples of this are trickled throughout the article, particularly notable in wording. On page 38 is the claim, "Since both Project M and Melee now have this feature, it is a feature that Smash Wii U needs to adopt." The claim that any change *need* be adopted by this game is an extremely aggressive tone, which seems contrary to the premise and thought put behind the article. To site the two competitive games alone as means for said necessity, truly reads as whining. Simply altering the manner it is addressed would soften the verbiage and intensify the true reasons such a change would be beneficial.
This same page states that the change in training only benefits competitive players, and that this by default is a benefit for casuals, who only want to spectate. This appears to be rather patronizing, as there is reason players of many varieties would desire to improve their smash skill; one need not play in the competitive crowd (which is clear, in this article, means tournament goers) to desire to improve ones gameplay. A player can desire to be good at the game simply to be good at the game.

Additionally, if "competitive crowd" includes those who just play competitively with friends, that is not accurately represented in the use of the term within the article. Perhaps making the spectrum more illuminated would help the cause of the article- by addressing that there are not merely competitive players and casual players, but people at many points in between, such as the group I suggested above- groups of friends who want to beat the crap out of their friends and be the best in town... but not necessarily ever attend a single Smash tournament. Turning this perspective of polarity within players, into a full array of smaller subsets, would absolutely be of great benefit in discussing the game. In particular, it would aid in attempting to get more changes to the game which are competitive based, but not just for the "1%ers" of these competitions. The less it is about "competitive OR casual players," and the more it is about, "There are many types of Smash Bros players," the better a chance we stand at conversation aimed to appeal to all players, rather than to polarize and diminish one group within the community.
 
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maxpower1227

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A number of things also come off as pretentious and entitled as well.
Like literally 30 pages on how they need to fix every single stage to appease the hardcore competitive crowd? Yeah, I agree. Almost nobody is going to read all of that.


Here's how they can improve Smash Bros Wii U: Keep releasing new characters, stages, and other content.
 
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Handy Man

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Your Charizard changes are not well thought out. The flamethrower range would be nice but I wouldn't want the other two.

Forcing Zard into a glide while using flamethrower midair would be a huge nerf, it makes using it as a stage control tool with short hops much harder and more importantly it removes one of the few landing options Zard has when he already has a hard time getting out of juggles.

Giving any character immunity from all throw combos (which is what interrupting an opponent after all throws would do) is a horrible idea for balance.
As a Charizard main, I don't agree with any of his points. More range with Flamethrower seems like a nice idea, but Flamethrower already has really good range and is one of Zard's best spacing and defensive options. I wouldn't change anything about his Flamethrower. All I would really change are his airspeed (which is 50th best in the game) and frame data. His airspeed allows him to be juggled with ease and his frame data is among the worst in the game. Just bump his airspeed to at least the 35th best in the game (Fox and Mii Swordfighter) and make his aerials have faster startup, and then we'll have a solid mid-high tier.
 

CrazyPerson

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I skimmed through it.. some good ideas in there others I don't like... but that is to be expected with a 68 page document.

Well put together even though I don't agree with all of it... if I find the time I shall elaborate later.
 

Mewtoo22

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This is a bit overboard, but some of the changes sound feasible. I think it'd be beneficial to have this much effort go into a character change petition. Honestly, I disagree with a lot of these character changes. Especially the ideas for Link/TL and Olimar. And nullifying grabs on characters like Ganondorf and Charizard is just awful. The idea sounds better on ROB, giving him a fully charged laser when grabbed. But still, that's kinda rewarding the player for losing.

But some would be good. Particularly Samus firing diagonally, fixing Pac-Man's awful grab, increasing Robin's run speed, etc. Personally, I'd add these changes:
-Allow Samus to charge her neutral B in midair
-Allow Toon Link to charge his UpB on the ground and move slightly, like in PM
-R.O.B's backair is a recovery tool, yet it can cause him to bounce off the stage if he collides with it, rather than grabbing the ledge like CF's sideB. So fix that. >_>

But that's all I can think of, really. Honestly, aside from some outlandish character changes, this list isn't bad. The alpha stages would be a seriously ambitious project though.
 

Cylent

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The only thing I agree with is your ideas on replays.
I think your stages and character "balance" wouldn't help the game from a competitive stand point.
 
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DungeonMaster

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I think the effort is admirable with some decent ideas, but I'm not sure if you've actually played the game in detail or participated in any of the MANY discussions in the forums here before claiming you have a real understanding of the issues.
We spent a lot of time in the Samus boards discussing the character's problems, we went to the trouble of enumerating them and making a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCYCj3et36U
No one thinks directional missiles is a "fix" for this character, I don't know where the hell you're pulling this from but it feels *very* casual.
Your training mode suggestions don't indicate that the basic combo counter is broken, something that EVERYONE would benefit from having fixed.

Before producing a 60+ page report, you should go and (try) and get consensus from the various boards, or at least get a grip on the actual issues.
 

Nayol

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This is very well written document that you put together, and not gonna lie, the alpha stages sound cool. However there are several things that i would like to point out;
- The changes that you have suggested to characters in this list seem almost ludicrous. From someone who has coded for a little bit, i can say that doing all of those changes for :4link: 's costumes would not only be a waste of time but also unfair to the rest of the cast.

- The For Glory ideas seem nice on paper, however, one must understand that not EVERYONE on for glory is there to learn about how to advance their play as smash players; some are there to troll while others are there for a good time. Putting a name tag to them would be unnecessary.

As other people have said, I believe it would be best it you went through the discussions that EACH and EVERY sub forum in smash 4 to make sure you get a general idea of the situation.
 
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Commander Fresh

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To me, the main issue I see is that the proposed changes to characters are treading startlingly close to the kind of character changes and gimmicks one would find in every new Project M update.

The next largest issue is that you're trying to put too many options into the game. The problem here is that you alienate casual and new players with an overwhelming amount of confusing choices. These players just want to play the game, not worry about what rage means, what blast zones are (and all that technical flimflam) or the use of a frame-by-frame option in the replays (etc.). A couple features would've been nice to add, but overall, the trend here is the overwhelming amount of options and also the increased time between matches tweaking settings in the menus. Smash is satisfying for casual and not-so-casual players alike in part because matches can be started very quickly one after another without weird options confusing people and slowing things down.

There have been games that have incorporated similar features to the ones proposed. However, smash is a game where I see detriment by simply dumping technical accessibility onto it. I'd like to see a more comprehensive changelog for balance patches and all that stuff, but there is a very thin line when it comes to giving the hardcore players technical info in a game like smash. We have dataminers and others to experiment and discover aspects of the game; one needs to consider whether it is beneficial in the big picture to provide intimidating-looking data to the 10% of us who actually have a use for it.

There have been many ideas in the proposal, which is alright, but now that we have these ideas, it's time we approached them from a practical and logistical perspective; simply put, these suggestions should not only improve the game for us, but it should also be feasible to do, and the benefits of adding features/changes need to outweigh both the development cost and the benefits of working on different features instead. Above all else, they need to be realistically likely in the first place.
 
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maxpower1227

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I could get behind a few of these changes: savable/loadable presets, additional online options, and offline tourneys. A lot of these other changes seem overly technical and unnecessary. This game is the most complete, polished game I've played, but this Masters thesis makes it seem like a broken product that needs to be completely redesigned from the ground up.
 

RIP|Merrick

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This is a comment. It seems a lot of the document has been updated, so all of my original thoughts are gone. Whoops. :)
 
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VGFan95

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Hey everyone,

I just updated the post with a revised edition of the article and would like to respond to some of the comments on here.

the.tok the.tok T-Loc T-Loc CowlScatman CowlScatman Petroklos Petroklos

Thanks for reading! Glad to hear that you liked it. Feel free to share the revised article

PKMudkip PKMudkip

I felt that it would be awkward to create a third form of each stage and only have some stages make use of it. Part of the reason for each stage having an alpha form is also for its music and visual appeal, not just the layout for gameplay.

Xermo Xermo

Thank you for your feedback. Please see the revision for the changes regarding the character specific enhancements. I also made numerous edits to try to make the document more presentable and focused, rather than seeking to impress with words.

Rinku リンク Rinku リンク Nayol Nayol Charey Charey Handy Man Handy Man

Thank you for your feedback, Please see the revision for the changes made to the character specific enhancement section

pupNapoleon pupNapoleon

Thank you for your feedback. I've made quite a lot of revisions based on your feedback.

Mewtoo22 Mewtoo22

Thanks for your feedback. Please see the revision for the updates to the character enhancements. In regards to the alpha stages, most all of the alpha stages would not require any new assets to be created, as they are constructed by using assets already found in the Original or Omega forms or by removing assets form the Original forms. However, there would be exceptions such as Flat Zone X, Fire Emblem Coliseum, and Mario Galaxy.

Cylent Cylent

Thanks for your feedback. I've made a number of changes to the character enhancement section. In regards to the alpha stages, a lot of positive feedback has come in regarding them, so I believe the community would be curious to hear your reasoning for them being a negative addition.

DungeonMaster DungeonMaster

Thanks for you feedback. There has been much positive feedback regarding Samus's diagonal missile firing. In regards to the combo counter in training mode, unless something has changed, the counter is designed to only consider a hit a true combo if the CPU is hit within 1 frame of being in hitstun. Besides this, the only major benefit to fixing the combo counter is for showing off - the damage percentage is what people will be looking at.

Commander Fresh Commander Fresh

Thanks for your feedback. Please see the revisions made to the character section. In regards to their being too many options and features, the revised article may answer some of your concerns. For most of the optional settings, most of these would remain tucked away in the rules menus and wouldn't have to be changed on a game by game basis. For those that are interested though, they could really create some interesting game modes.

maxpower1227 maxpower1227

I've updated the article and my original post to reflect the fact that game is already in high standing, but could be improved. The article would not have been written if the game was not as good as it currently is.

RIP|Merrick RIP|Merrick

The suggestion behind the tag is two fold. A) to reduce the frequency in which inappropriate tags are used during online play, and B) to allow for the matchmaking balancing idea.
 
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Rinku リンク

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The Hylian shield change would be very helpful against characters that out camp Link and make it a bit easier to approach. It also just seems practical and balanced so I approve.
 

Cylent

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Cylent Cylent

Thanks for your feedback. I've made a number of changes to the character enhancement section. In regards to the alpha stages, a lot of positive feedback has come in regarding them, so I believe the community would be curious to hear your reasoning for them being a negative addition.

Well, I'd like to start out by pointing out that I just skimmed through it.
But, for example, you mentioned Link's tunics all giving him some elemental bonus. I think giving certain skins different attributes would be a good addition on the aspect of Smash being a "party game". But I think as far as competitive goes there shouldn't be special advantages given to a characters based on which skin they select.

As far as the alpha stages concept: I feel like that makes too many stages legal. I think the current meta already has too many stages (some regions having 8-10). I think the inclusion of alpha stages would make too many stages, making banning less strategic because since there are so many stages to choose from you always have a comfortable stage to fall back on if your first choice is banned.
 

Mister Eric

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Woah, cool project.

Idk if this has been mentioned yet, but here are my thoughts:
Replays: Be able to rewind and fast forward replays. Even look at moments frame-by-frame.
Friends list: Increase the cap to 5,000 instead of 100.
Regular Online Tourney Mode: Increase timer to 4 min or 5 min max.
 
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VGFan95

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Replays: Be able to rewind and fast forward replays. Even look at moments frame-by-frame.
Regular Online Tourney Mode: Increase timer to 4 min or 5 min max.
These were some features that were part of the original version of the document, but were taken out in the revision after receiving community feedback. The reason for this is that the document already references an adjustable time limit for user-created tournaments, and therefore the 'Regular' Tourney mode should be left with the same time limit. For replays, it was decided that the above features were unnecessary due to the fact that external software is already sufficient in manipulating the playback speed of a replay. Last, the Friend List size limit is not a Smash Wii U specific limit.


I'm glad you enjoyed the read! Feel free to bring others into the discussion.
 
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VGFan95

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Hey guys, just wanted to update this thread to indicate that the document is now completed.
Thanks to reader feedback it has come a long way since it first came out in November!
If you haven't already, give it a read!
 
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