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Crawling and its implications on the status of Brawl and the demo

Artisan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
27
I believe this topic doesn't fit specifically into one already existing thread, so take some time to consider the following.

Crawling is a technique we've known about since the second trailer, released nearly a year ago at Nintendo World. Since then we haven't yet received any official word on the topic, including how it's performed or what strategic uses it has. That said, we can reasonably assume it's still planned to be in the game.

Despite this, I have yet to notice any evidence of the technique present in any footage of the playable demo released a few days ago. This could be due to any of the following reasons:

- Firstly, it is not implemented in the demo version of Brawl. This is not too difficult to imagine, and seems like the most likely explanation to me. If this is true, the version people are playing in the demo is missing gameplay elements that will be in the final version aside from just characters and stages.

- Instead, it could be that the players simply failed to figure out how to crawl. Considering that a decent amount of the people at the media summit seemed to have little prior Smash experience, this is a possibility and shouldn't be overlooked, but it seems somewhat unlikely to me that this maneuver wouldn't be accidentally discovered. It seems like it would be a relatively simple technique to use, and the simple mechanics of single-wii-remote control make me think it would have been discovered by accident at some point.

- It has been removed from the game entirely, including the planned release version. This seems unlikely to me, but it is complete guesswork, so there is not much purpose in discussing this possibility further.

In addition to this, I was initially thinking that perhaps crawling is a character-specific move and we hadn't seen the characters who can use it. Supporting this is my view that it might not fit with certain characters' styles (Metaknight, Zelda for example.) At first I had only remembered seeing Snake and Wario with a crawl move, who were not present in the demo, but then I remembered that Pikachu was shown crawling several times as well. None of the media summit videos show Pikachu crawling, though this would narrow down the chance of no one discovering it a bit, though it still doesn't seem as likely as my first option.

What does this mean regarding the status of Brawl and the demo? If crawling is indeed in the demo, there is a possibility that we are looking at a final version of the gameplay mechanics. However, the absence of crawling would say with reasonable (while not 100%) certainty that the version we've seen is lacking elements of gameplay, rather than just characters and stages. This opens the door for the possibility that there are other not-yet-shown techniques waiting to be revealed besides crawling. As such, it would warn people against being prematurely pleased or disappointed with the lack of certain aspects of Brawl (wavedashing, l-cancelling, etc.) Specifically, it would tell us "There is more coming in all aspects, not just characters, stages, and items."

This isn't to say that all or any other Melee techniques are still there because crawling seems to be missing, but at least it would suggest not to let your expectations be guided by what you see in these videos.

I'd also suggest people who are going to E 4 All to test this out, especially with Pikachu, and see whether or not it's possible to crawl (and if so, how it's done.) This would probably give us a better idea of how close the demo version is to the in-development product.
 

Doc Chronic

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
639
Location
Richmond, VA
no way they have taken it out, that would be stupid. it simply isn't in the brawl demo. if it were, you would have seen someone accidentally do it in one of the gameplay vids. it seems statitsically impossible for someone to not have accidentally done it if the technique were present in the demo
 

Kittah4

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
832
Location
Southeast US, 0516-6936-7436
I believe crawling IS in the demo. In the advanced tactics thread there is one gif entitled "yoshiweirdroll" where he ends up sitting down. I'm betting that that was a prelude to crawling. However, they rolled right back out of it and we didn't see if you could attack out of crawling or even what Yoshi's crawl looked like.

I'm hoping the move will have some sort of strategical merit, but I cannot think of any.
 

Pyroloserkid

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
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Ontario
I think Snake and Wario crawling were just for a cinematic effect.

I mean, how could you possibly use that to your advantage during a match?
Edit: BESIDES dodging projectiles.
 

Phaazoid

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snake crawling was definitely not a cinematic, and it hasn't been removed, because snake is crawling in snake joins the brawl film
 

Jammer

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
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Nice first post, Artisan.

I think crawling's usefulness might be this: It may make you invulnerable to many attacks like you are when you've been knocked down (you fall without teching). I never found out if that invulnerability was from having too low of a hitbox, or it actually being programmed in. Either way, this makes sense to me.

Also, Snake, who is the only character I'm sure I saw crawling in a video (Wario looked like crouch-walking or something), wasn't in the demo. Coincidence? Maybe.
 

Japanese Monk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
370
I believe crawling IS in the demo. In the advanced tactics thread there is one gif entitled "yoshiweirdroll" where he ends up sitting down. I'm betting that that was a prelude to crawling. However, they rolled right back out of it and we didn't see if you could attack out of crawling or even what Yoshi's crawl looked like.

I'm hoping the move will have some sort of strategical merit, but I cannot think of any.
YOSHIS UNKNOWN MOVE

Im thinking what yoshi is doing is the start of the CRAWL technique.

Remember how snake JUMPS/Cartwheels into his crawling mode?

Nintendo World Trailer Snake Cartwheel

There, around 1:31 Snake cartwheels much like Yoshi.

I suspect that after doing the cartwheel one has 2 choices. Either start crawling from this position OR roll back out of this position.

Yoshi chooses to roll back out. Notice after Yoshi cartwheels he pauses while sitting on his bottom....then he rolls to his feet. I think this bottom position is the neutral position which can lead to a crawl or roll.




It makes much more sense than just clumsily stopping in you tracks and crawling. This cartwheel to crawl mechanic would be alot quicker and serve alot better...I think. :urg:
Great minds think alike.
 

ToddCam

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Messages
418
Location
Philadelphia
I think crawling may be limited to characters who can't glide; maybe even characters who can't wall jump. If I recall correctly, Pikachu couldn't wall jump in Melee.

But it's true, characters in dresses do look strange crawling. Maybe Zelda will get a special technique, specific to her, like Peach's floating?
 

Zek

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
784
I'm sure no one actually tried to crawl back then, so that's why we haven't seen it in full. I think even someone that knows what they're doing would be hard-pressed to find a use for crawling. None of the Nintendo reps explained how to do it either.
 

Kittah4

Smash Ace
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Oct 17, 2007
Messages
832
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I'm trying to think what the command for crawling could even be. Perhaps Smash Down and Jump? I think Zauron mentioned Yoshi was in his standard crouch for a frame or so before he rolled.
 

Sariku

Smash Master
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I think crawling may be limited to characters who can't glide; maybe even characters who can't wall jump. If I recall correctly, Pikachu couldn't wall jump in Melee.

But it's true, characters in dresses do look strange crawling. Maybe Zelda will get a special technique, specific to her, like Peach's floating?
It's called "Shiek." If you don't know what that is, it makes you turn into a top tier fighter who, in the right hands, can take down Chuck Norris.
 

Xenesis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
299
I'm trying to think what the command for crawling could even be. Perhaps Smash Down and Jump? I think Zauron mentioned Yoshi was in his standard crouch for a frame or so before he rolled.
I think the most likely command for the crawl is diagonal down left/right.
 

GreenKirby

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How about:

The people who played the demos sucked?

That's usually the reason when some move isn't shown. :)
 

Kittah4

Smash Ace
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I think the most likely command for the crawl is diagonal down left/right.
I must disagree if Yoshi's gif is indeed entering "crawl mode", or else the people playing Brawl would have accidentally pulled it off more than once. I dont know if theres any proof that Yoshi was being controlled by a human or not.
 

Jammer

Smash Lord
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@SubparSmashBrother^: I've seen Metaknight glide in the demo, I think. So probably not.
 

yoshi_fan

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
706
I have to say: Yoshi's weird roll is the best pic ever seen (owls sleeping, tom nook, and yoshi's hitting the floor with the head xD)

Actually i think Crawling will be more important than we first guess.
 

Feryx

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
148
I'm confident that crawling, like gliding, will be limited to some characters

Characters who should crawl: Snake, Pika, Diddy, Samus (morph ball!), Squirtle (?), Bowser (?), Yoshi (?)

Characters who should not crawl: Zelda, Sonic, Peach, MK, Kirby, Link.
 

Feryx

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
148
Thanks ^.^
Link crawling is feasible, I just don't think it really suits his character.

As for common uses, how often do you wall jump?
 

pirkid

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
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That didn't show how to crawl in the Wii Mote controls.

I assume it tap down twice, but with the whole rolling thing, it might be executed out of a roll, but that would create lag if you didn't want to, and a lot of double rolls. A lot of noobs are roll-happy, and this would slow it down a lot.


Help?
 

Jammer

Smash Lord
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Thanks ^.^
Link crawling is feasible, I just don't think it really suits his character.

As for common uses, how often do you wall jump?
Nah, Link crawls all the time Twilight Princess to get through logs and stuff.

Wall jumping is pretty useful as an edgehog technique for some characters. Also, it can sometimes be used for recovery.
 

ruel

Smash Cadet
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May 26, 2007
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50
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Canada
I actually read in one of the previews that the only character in the demo that could crawl was bowser. I wonder why?
 

Zauron

Smash Journeyman
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ToddCam

Smash Journeyman
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It's called "Shiek." If you don't know what that is, it makes you turn into a top tier fighter who, in the right hands, can take down Chuck Norris.
Well, yes, there's that. I meant more for the true Zelda though. I never play as Shiek (Except during Sudden Death).
 

Feryx

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
148
Eh. Adult Link just doesn't feel like a crawler to me. He does it more when he's little. Young Link would crawl.
 

Kelexo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
360
Yeah, he'll have a special transformation just to crawl. Right...
 

Feryx

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
148
Yeah, I'm not being very coherent, just thinking out loud (er, typing. whatever). Oh well, I kinda just tacked Link to that list to make it longer.
 

Al Calnos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
462
Location
Nowherespecial, Arkansas
Samus could have morph ball. They're not too different.
I fail to see the similarity between a cybernetic ball and a cursed wolf.

The Morph Ball, which Samus uses for her rolls and bomb moves, is a standard piece of equipment in all Metroid games. Its not Metroid without the Morph Ball and having Samus freely transform into it and roll around would be awesome and make it closer to the Metroid games.

Link changing into a wolf just to crawl? Stupid, considering a wolf, especially Link's wolf form, can do more than that. Plus Link had the ability to crawl in every 3D Zelda game, so you fail.
 

Vortok

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
334
Location
Washington
Pikachu can crawl with diagonal down with Classic Controller. I tried it with Mario and Sonic, but couldn't get either of them to Crawl.
 
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