Countering the "Sheik's ______ is way too good!" Arguement.

[smashPony]

Hey everyone, Pony here. I haven't seen this particular topic included in a thread yet. I'd like to open up a discussion on how us Sheik mains can try to counter the "Sheik's Fair is too safe/ Bouncing Fish kills too early/ Vanish is too strong/ Edgeguarding is too easy/ Off stage needles are too good/ Too many combos/ Too many 50-50s/ Everything combos into Bouncing Fish/ FTilt shouldn't combo into Uair" arguements.

It seems that no matter what i use to try and make a case for Sheik not being overpowered, I just get told repeatedly that she's just the perfect character and that she has an unfair advantage over the rest of the cast.

I explain that she has the lowest damage per hit in the entire roster, her smash attacks are EXTREMELY punishable (I'm looking at you, Mario brothers), she takes way too long to get you to kill percent off of chip damage alone, she cant kill you at 100% because you whiffed something punishable at center stage like the rest of the cast (unless you're a Puff main).

No matter what, when i try to make a case for Sheik being a well balanced character, others just try to s*** on my character because they dont do well against her. I'd like to know from Sheik mains and Sheik haters alike, what is your opinion on Sheik's current stance amongst the rest of the cast, and why you think she is or isn't balanced, is or isn't OP, and how you make a case for Sheik being a beatable character.

Thanks for your time y'all. - Pony.

 

[pipp]

Sheik is the best character in the game right now, and there's doubt about that, but she's not completely unbeatable. Sure, her smash attacks aren't too great, but they're not necessary to get the kill. F-air or F-throw in to bouncing fish are flexible kill options, as well as d-throw or f-tilt to u-air. You can even use needles to set up for a bouncing fish kill, so she really doesn't lack in kill power. It really doesn't take long to get people to kill percent either considering Sheik's devastating combo game. I think she could use a few slight nerfs, but that doesn't fix the fact there's almost always going to be a definitive best character. People are going to get salty no matter what, but that's their own fault and they're just going to have to deal with it. In my opinion, Sheik has enough of an advantage against the rest of the cast to justify minor nerfs, but isn't that overpowered compared to the rest of the top tiers.

 

[Planty]

Sheik is in this really awkward spot where if she gets even slight nerfs in the wrong spots, she's going to drop to mid tier. Imagine uair didn't kill. Just imagine that. Sheik would be so much worse. Basically the only thing you could do is add a little endlag to needles.

And no. Sheik is not balanced. A character with no bad matchups that destroys a huge portion of the cast is not balanced. Pit is balanced. Mario is balanced. Megaman is balanced. Ike is balanced. Sheik is not.

 

[smashPony]

Sheik is in this really awkward spot where if she gets even slight nerfs in the wrong spots, she's going to drop to mid tier. Imagine uair didn't kill. Just imagine that. Sheik would be so much worse. Basically the only thing you could do is add a little endlag to needles.

And no. Sheik is not balanced. A character with no bad matchups that destroys a huge portion of the cast is not balanced. Pit is balanced. Mario is balanced. Megaman is balanced. Ike is balanced. Sheik is not.

Sorry, I should've clarified what I meant by balanced. Obviously as far as matchups go she is unbalanced. What I meant to say is that she is balanced as far as her own character design goes. Trades speed for power, damage per hit for combo potential, several 50-50s rather than 1 guaranteed throw combo that kills at X percent, etc.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Ugh, the "50/50" phrase has been used by everyone and it's such a common buzzword that's used every single time a Sheik does dthrow AND IT'S NEVER A 50/50. There are windows where vanish will kill and uair won't; NEVER AIR DODGE IN THESE WINDOWS. JUMP AWAY. ALWAYS JUMP AND YOU AVOID EVERYTHING.

Please stop using the phrase 50/50, it's an annoying buzzword and it's not true.

 

[pokio55]

Mfw when someone says sheik is OP...

 

[Joaco]

Don't waste your time trying to make those people understand, they never will. These people love complaining. Just don't listen to them, when they tell you something like "Sheik OP" just say "not my problem".

 

[smashPony]

Ugh, the "50/50" phrase has been used by everyone and it's such a common buzzword that's used every single time a Sheik does dthrow AND IT'S NEVER A 50/50. There are windows where vanish will kill and uair won't; NEVER AIR DODGE IN THESE WINDOWS. JUMP AWAY. ALWAYS JUMP AND YOU AVOID EVERYTHING.

Please stop using the phrase 50/50, it's an annoying buzzword and it's not true.

I'm not here to argue semantics, and i see your point, but if I Dthrow Vanish at 100% there's a 50% chance it will hit, and a 50% chance it won't. The problem is that people don't understand they should just mixup their DI and jump away, although the arguement can be made that some people airdodge because they don't want to get caught out of their double jumps. Characters such as Dr. Mario and and Ike cannot waste their double jump. If they do, they're done for.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I'm not here to argue semantics, and i see your point, but if I Dthrow Vanish at 100% there's a 50% chance it will hit, and a 50% chance it won't. The problem is that people don't understand they should just mixup their DI and jump away, although the arguement can be made that some people airdodge because they don't want to get caught out of their double jumps. Characters such as Dr. Mario and and Ike cannot waste their double jump. If they do, they're done for.

No. They can just double jump and then airdodge and they're completely safe. IF Sheik goes for Vanish they can easily land by fastfalling. If Sheik doesn't, then they can cover up their landing with nair or something, they're not done for.

Also, Sheik doesn't have any more "50/50s" other than that one, which isn't even a 50/50.

 

[smashPony]

No. They can just double jump and then airdodge and they're completely safe. IF Sheik goes for Vanish they can easily land by fastfalling. If Sheik doesn't, then they can cover up their landing with nair or something, they're not done for.

Also, Sheik doesn't have any more "50/50s" other than that one, which isn't even a 50/50.

This thread has deviated far from the topic already. No more.

 

[Joaco]

This thread has deviated far from the topic already. No more.

He's kinda countering the "Sheik's 50/50 is way to good" argument.

 

[Shaya]

A "counter play to things people complain about" thread, one well thought and managed would be appropriate, but otherwise you then just asked whether or not Sheik is strong or not.... yeah she's obviously strong... nearly everyone agrees.

Anyway *clip*