L33thal
Smash Apprentice
So as Marth mains, we all know that a lot of times our opponents are going to look for openings where they think we're open; for exmaple, that Marth hasn't put out a hitbox, that he just finished putting out a hitbox and is in lag, or that Marth is moving backwards in anticipation of an approach from his opponent.
And a lot of times our opponents will pick moves that cover and threaten a "sweet spot" of space really well. That is, even if their read is not on-point their move still covers them well after attempting to call out movement/aerials. Some examples are Fox's overshoot nair/running shine, Sheik's dash attack/boost grab, or Falcon's overshoot nair/raptor boost.
From what I know so far, it seems the usual response to these types of situations in neutral are: dash/WD back to create more space to punish overshoots/pokes, put out a hitbox/anti-air to clip them out of whatever they're doing, or shield and punish non-frame safe moves with shield grab.
But I feel like those "typical" responses are kind of tough in terms of upside/downside for Marth. Moving back gives up stage and if the opponent is patient and good at controlling stage, Marth winds up losing more and more ground while looking out for those sneaky attacks. Same thing goes for shielding. Patience can really mess Marth up, e.g. Fox faking an approach with WD in-place and then running up and grabbing Marth in shield or Sheik boost grab. Also, I've been trying to trade SH fairs into running shine/raptor boost/etc when I think I have a read on when my opponent is going to do those, but it almost feels like 7 times out of 10 you will miss the timing--basically, it's not a good idea to trade or clip like that.
This leads me to feel like Marth is at a disadvantage if his neutral is not threatening enough. I think a good idea is to put out hitboxes from time to time (depending on your read) to deter your opponent from going for moves that can figuratively "pull the rug from under you". That is, it's kind of bad to put out hitboxes in a kind of "reactionary" ("my read is you will running shine here, so I'll hold onto my SH rising fair) and clip your opponent's pokes. But, more effort should be put into getting into your opponent's comfort zone and stuffing their positioning ("I'm going to d-tilt here and that's going to cover if you're getting ready to running shine so you're going to have to pick another move").
TLDR; Bait with aggression, instead of bait with neutral/defensive intentions as usually brought up in mid-level play
I've always found it interesting when I watch vods of Marths using varying amounts of movement mixups, hitbox mixups, mixups to bait, mixups to wall, etc. Any thoughts on this?
And a lot of times our opponents will pick moves that cover and threaten a "sweet spot" of space really well. That is, even if their read is not on-point their move still covers them well after attempting to call out movement/aerials. Some examples are Fox's overshoot nair/running shine, Sheik's dash attack/boost grab, or Falcon's overshoot nair/raptor boost.
From what I know so far, it seems the usual response to these types of situations in neutral are: dash/WD back to create more space to punish overshoots/pokes, put out a hitbox/anti-air to clip them out of whatever they're doing, or shield and punish non-frame safe moves with shield grab.
But I feel like those "typical" responses are kind of tough in terms of upside/downside for Marth. Moving back gives up stage and if the opponent is patient and good at controlling stage, Marth winds up losing more and more ground while looking out for those sneaky attacks. Same thing goes for shielding. Patience can really mess Marth up, e.g. Fox faking an approach with WD in-place and then running up and grabbing Marth in shield or Sheik boost grab. Also, I've been trying to trade SH fairs into running shine/raptor boost/etc when I think I have a read on when my opponent is going to do those, but it almost feels like 7 times out of 10 you will miss the timing--basically, it's not a good idea to trade or clip like that.
This leads me to feel like Marth is at a disadvantage if his neutral is not threatening enough. I think a good idea is to put out hitboxes from time to time (depending on your read) to deter your opponent from going for moves that can figuratively "pull the rug from under you". That is, it's kind of bad to put out hitboxes in a kind of "reactionary" ("my read is you will running shine here, so I'll hold onto my SH rising fair) and clip your opponent's pokes. But, more effort should be put into getting into your opponent's comfort zone and stuffing their positioning ("I'm going to d-tilt here and that's going to cover if you're getting ready to running shine so you're going to have to pick another move").
TLDR; Bait with aggression, instead of bait with neutral/defensive intentions as usually brought up in mid-level play
I've always found it interesting when I watch vods of Marths using varying amounts of movement mixups, hitbox mixups, mixups to bait, mixups to wall, etc. Any thoughts on this?
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