Countering Jigglypuff Crouch cancel to Fsmash

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Basically what the title said. The only way I've been able to get around this is to space dtilts at the very tip of my sword, but if I'm off on the spacing a little, I get fsmashed. Approaching with shorthopped aerials didn't work for me because I would get Crouch canceled and punished. The strategy has been especially effective on places like FD, where if I'm at high percent puff will just crouchwalk at me and wait for me to mess up a dtilt.

It's strange for me since I'm not used to fighting puff on the ground so much.

Is there anyway to beat this strategy? Or is perfectly spacing dtilt the only way.

 

[Link24a]

Lol who even does this?

If they're that much of a scrub, then just dash grab them

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

A good puff really shouldn't be doing that lmao, but I guess just anticipate it and act around? DD and grab?

 

[FE_Hector]

You can try to dash grab the noob Puff, but you've gotta have really careful spacing in order to get it. I'd practice it shadowboxing first. But yeah, just randomly bait it out. Puff loves the air so IDK why they're even doing that

 

[Wind]

What? Crouch -> punish is an essential part of Puff's toolset vs Marth and largely what the matchup revolves around. If the Marth isn't threatening any of the options that beats the crouch then of course the Puff is going to keep crouching. I don't get why people here are calling this something a good Puff wouldn't do because it's something a good Puff SHOULD do and one of the big things Marth has to work around in the matchup.

 

[Wafflesaurus]

What? Crouch -> punish is an essential part of Puff's toolset vs Marth and largely what the matchup revolves around. If the Marth isn't threatening any of the options that beats the crouch then of course the Puff is going to keep crouching. I don't get why people here are calling this something a good Puff wouldn't do because it's something a good Puff SHOULD do and one of the big things Marth has to work around in the matchup.

CC to punish is one of the best tools Jigglypuff has in the match up but using it for f smash is kind of a waste. F smash starts on frame 12 so most of the time you can shield it and there are better alternatives for Jiggs (like grab and rest).

 

[Wind]

CC to punish is one of the best tools Jigglypuff has in the match up but using it for f smash is kind of a waste. F smash starts on frame 12 so most of the time you can shield it and there are better alternatives for Jiggs (like grab and rest).

Somewhat spacing dependent but you're right. Regardless, OP still needs to punish these things somehow.

Counterplay options for the crouch cancel fsmash are something like properly spaced dash grab, run up shield if you hard read a cc fsmash and OOS punish accordingly, SH aerial -> shield to cover yourself from the fsmash. Realistically, you should be able to dash dance effectively to threaten him enough so that he won't want to crouch walk right up to you, that should never happen.

However, eventually, your opponent will realize that cc fsmash only will get him only so much mileage, which will then cause him to mix up his options if he is capable. Maybe he'll start spacing backairs and try to gain more real estate, or threaten with tomahawks as a mixup. Maybe he'll start doing more unconventional things, which typically don't work against many things, but specifically beat the options you've chosen to present to him. At this point, it's up to you to know (or learn on the fly) what beats these each particular new options he presents, and when to appropriately use them if his mixup game is on point. You have to learn how to adapt and deal with innovations to each person's game, which will probably come with time. This can be especially hard with the execution barrier to melee, but it can be rewarding. Feel free to ask any more questions if you have them.