Counter to cover opponents' recoveries?

[theleeryone]

Given that a majority of the cast's recovery options involve some form of attack, it seems that Marth's counter would be helpful in limiting those recoveries. I myself use this option on occasion. However, I don't see this happen often when more skilled players are at the controls, so I presume there's a fairly good reason to consider it a poor option.

Given that I'm fairly new to competitive Marth, I'm not sure what that reason would be. Any thoughts?

 

[Foodies]

It works, but it's easier to do on some recoveries than others. Your opponent can either delay or do their upB early in most situations to avoid the counter if you are too predictable with it, which puts you in a bad situation. But in the cases where they have to use their recovery at a certain time and angle it's an easy edgeguard for you. There's always the option of just fairing or bairing to edgeguard too.

 

[Tattles]

The ledge is a lot easier to grab now, so most recoveries with a hitbox will never touch Marth if he's on the stage. However, Ike is probably the easiest to do this against, since a popular Ike strategy is to basically just Aether through the stage.

Maybe running off the stage and countering would work better, but obviously has some riskiness to it.

 

[EternalFlame]

The point that you are able to counter them is a bit difficult position to get into, as in order to at least be able to counter all of the attacking up Bs requires you to be there ahead of time. More of the skilled opponents will choose to slide against the wall or aim to sweet spot the ledge, which makes it difficult to time and more so to be in the line of attack to get hit and counter accordingly. Another factor is the speed of the Up Bs or the invincibility some characters get when they recover. Marth's counter is fast, but some characters can speed past it or out prioritize it. Also got to keep in mind that most skilled opponents will not just simply recover back on stage; they will likely throw projectiles or other attacks to cover their recovery, and going for the counter is not always benefitial as it may lead to them gimping you instead.

Countering is a pretty good tool for stoping recovery, but for the reasons mentioned above by the others and myself, it is not always easy to get. Sometimes the better option would be to BAir/FAir them on their return to the stage to possibly place them at an easier point to counter kill them, but by that point, that move is more likely to take their stock than the counter.

 

[theleeryone]

What about characters without projectiles, or slow recoveries?

 

[EternalFlame]

What about characters without projectiles, or slow recoveries?

The counter is usually quite character specific on who you can use it on and can't. Even without projectiles, opponents can try to attack you while you get into the right counter position, or those with slower recoveries may throw it earlier or later to try and throw off your timing. Counter's active frames is not as long as say Shulk's or Mac's, so you have to be percise on the counter read or you may lose your stock for it. As soon as you run off the ledge, you're committing to trying to counter/Air attack them, so its all based on how well you can read them and which tool is more appropriate for the situation.

Take for example Link, whose Up B recovery is a bit slower that Mario's standard Up B speed. Link could aim to sweet spot the ledge, aim for you, or double jump UAir/FAir (if he didn't use his double jump yet) and this is assuming Link doesn't try to throw projectiles. The timing will be dependent on you to read it, and if the recovery attacks are slow, go for the counter. But you have to choose carefully or you may not get the desired outcome.