Could wavedashing be theoretically replaced with something equally functional but easier?

[Rhumagricole]

If you didn't want to try, why are you trying so hard here lol

Agreed with you Tail.Quillion, I think you forget the fact that this mod is called ''Project:M'' as in Project Melee. It wouldn't make much sense to change all the advanced mechanics so that there's no more skills involved in movements/spacing while melee has had the same recipe and is now still going on (its about 13 years old now, probably amongst the most popular oldest fighting games).

Might as well call it ''Project Easier Melee''.Also I don't think its necessary to post a video to troll (You hate this game bro?) for such a thing

 

[Narpas_sword]

its also easy, and changing it to dash (or double tap dash for taht matter) wont work.

lock this thread, its just a repeat

 

[KinfolkGaming]

The reason wavedashing is so amazing is because without it being difficult to do it doesn't really give a learning curve to the game. Just like all the other advanced techniques it gives the player something to practice and kinda spaces out the players and their different skill levels.

 

[Pwii]

These threads beg the question that wavedashing is hard, when it really isnt.
no changes are needed because it's not established that it is hard.
Wavedashing is fairly simple when you compare it to all the other techs that are present. even when compared to normal moves.





So a wavedash macro gets implemented, then every other topic opens up:

'where is my double super wavedash macro'?
'can we make Quick Draw cancelling easier'?
'how come there's a wavedash button but no shorthop button'
'SH double laser too hard - suggestions to make it easier'
'request moonwalk macro'
'need a shield drop button'

Let me debunk this by using the list of wavetechs from SmashWiki:

Approach and spacing?

• Tap the repeatedly left or right.

Waveshield?

• Right after tapping the , press . It's like the difference between smashing and dash attacking.

Wavesmash?

• Right after tapping the , tap the .

Waveshining?

• , tap , , tap , repeat for as long as you like.

Edgehogging?

• Make it that a back tap on sends you sliding backwards. If this interferes with dashdancing, make it that back-and-forth tapping does dashdancing instead.

Wavelanding?

• Assuming the air dodge is unchanged, nothing needs to change. But if they get the boneheaded idea to remove the slide from a groundward airdodge, just land with your grounded air dodge and tap your .

Variable length sliding?

• Tapping gives you a bigger slide while tapping and other angles give you a smaller slide.

And here's a messsage for everyone who says "lol you hate wavedashing cause you suck":

I do not want to invest my time into something that is remaining little more than a corner case of air dodge physics for a mod that is supposedly trying to surpass Melee. Designing the game around it without simplifying the game makes NO SENSE whatsoever. It's like making the Wall Jump in Mario or even Smash have frame-perfect timing because people like to be rewarded for such a difficult maneuver, therefore all of the levels that require wall jumping needs this frame-perfect timing.

I'll invest my time into it for Melee (SD Remix), but only for Melee. Because, hey, it's an interesting exploit, and there's nothing Nintendo or even the insignificant coven of Melee hackers can do about it. I'd compare it to Yoshi's Infinite Flutter Jump in Super Mario Galaxy 2. Sure, it's fun to use. Sure, I don't mind if it comes back. But if it comes back and people actually decide to design the game around it? Idiotic game design.



What if one conceives of a directional air dodge that if you try to dodge into the ground, you can't slide? I actually asked the Melee corner of SmashBoards, and even they think that without the wavedash, the directional air dodge would be superior to the failure of game design that is the momentum-conserving air dodge of Brawl and Smash 4.

Tapping control stick repeatedly left/right would make dash dancing slower. Not to mention your ******** idea for tapping to wavedash would mean airdodge + direction which would mess up SDI.

PM is not a completely different game buiilt from the ground up. It is a mod. These guys work their butts off and even then they can't move shy guys back on the z axis. What you are suggesting is ********. There are no more inputs left on the gamecube controller. If someone was to build a fighting game inspired by smash you may be approaching a point, but most of the advanced techniques in melee weren't necessarily intentional, which is why they are not designed with scrubs like you in mind. They are happy accidents built off of knowledge and experimentation of the game's engine. To change it would be to change the engine, or add idiotic options that are unnecessarily hard to program and serve no purpose but make it more kid-friendly.

If you want to make a smash-inspired game with auto L-cancel, wavedashing in one button, with tf2's random crits, no one is stopping you. I'd actually like to see more fighting games that take a page out of Smash's book. But PM is not a game built from the ground up. It's a progression from one game called melee. Get over it.

 

[MagnesD3]

Tapping control stick repeatedly left/right would make dash dancing slower. Not to mention your ******** idea for tapping to wavedash would mean airdodge + direction which would mess up SDI.

PM is not a completely different game buiilt from the ground up. It is a mod. These guys work their butts off and even then they can't move shy guys back on the z axis. What you are suggesting is ********. There are no more inputs left on the gamecube controller. If someone was to build a fighting game inspired by smash you may be approaching a point, but most of the advanced techniques in melee weren't necessarily intentional, which is why they are not designed with scrubs like you in mind. They are happy accidents built off of knowledge and experimentation of the game's engine. To change it would be to change the engine, or add idiotic options that are unnecessarily hard to program and serve no purpose but make it more kid-friendly.

If you want to make a smash-inspired game with auto L-cancel, wavedashing in one button, with tf2's random crits, no one is stopping you. I'd actually like to see more fighting games that take a page out of Smash's book. But PM is not a game built from the ground up. It's a progression from one game called melee. Get over it.

Wavedashing is fine as is but L canceling is a completely useless mechanic that really needs to be seriously evaluated on whether it should be changed for there to be a reason to not L cancel or be removed since it adds nothing strategic to the game.

 

[Quillion]

You know what, everyone's right; this is a duplicate.

I'm just going to bump that other thread.

 

[Raijinken]

They could, but they won't. Technical barriers are a design goal of Project M. Good design or not (I like a lower viable skill floor so that the scene can grow, personally), it's here and it won't be leaving. Just like L-canceling.

 

[Narpas_sword]

A lower skill floor can help, but that doesn't mean everything should be on that floor.

New players need to learn and focus on other things before wavedashing. The hard part about wavedashing isn't the execution but the knowledge of its uses.

If you overwhelm a new player with **** like wavedashing, they spend too much time trying to understand that, in hopes that understanding it will instantly make them a better player. They should be focusing on other things like spacing, fast falling and recovery paths.

You gotta learn to crawl before you learn to walk wavedash.

 

[Narpas_sword]

double post