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Could use some pointers.

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Jun 25, 2014
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User7a1
While I'm new to the forums, I'm not with 64 and wish to go further in playing the game. I mainly play with Kirby and Jigglypuff, and seeing the people in this section, I ask for where I could improve in my game. I have a couple of videos so that you could see my performance (it may take a while to view them, though). I don't have access to other players (and the emulators aren't as satisfying because of some glitches I get), so I have to train with CPUs (which can be a bad thing).


I did read the stickied "Video thread" up above and was a bit confused as to if I have to put my videos in that thread or not. If so, I'll make a post there with the links, but I would like some help.
 

Sedda

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What issues are you having with the emulator? we can help you fix them.

The problem is that we can't really help you with videos against cpu's. cpu's will do things that humans don't in real games. If we were to give you tips against cpu's, we would just be reinforcing bad habits. The best way to improve is to play online, or to record videos against live players so that we can then offer critiques.
 
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User7a1
They are more or less graphical and controller "glitches". The feel of playing on the emulator with the controller doesn't feel as precise or fluid as playing on a console, and to me that's a deal breaker. I understand that I could set the dead zone to 0, but it still feels like I am pressing arrow keys on a control pad (I have played on an emulator before and did not receive these kinds of inputs).
But I am fine with tips against CPUs (as reactionary as they are) as I could try to adjust against real players. If the tips are general, then I can still learn from them (like if I am too aggressive or too spacing).
If I can remember, the emulators I used (and still have as suggested by the FAQ) are PK64 1.4k and 2.1k.
 
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Sedda

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Yeah honestly ^thats the best advice. Telling you if you're being too aggressive or not enough against cpu's is not going to help you. Did you set up your range correctly on the emu as well? did you sync your 64 controller in windows?
 
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User7a1
All is fine about the controller and computer.
I'll give the emu one more shot and see how it goes from there. If things don't work well again, then I'll see how I can learn.
Seeing as no real progress was made, a mod can either delete or lock the this thread. I see no point in letting this thread live since I won't be getting any tips.
 
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Sangoku

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I'm a bit lazy and I don't want to re-write everything I've said in the past, so I'll just quote it here. Some stuff might not apply to you, but the general idea does.

Training against one CPU is already a bad idea, so playing against multiple ones is really the worst thing you could do. Some things that work against a CPU don't work against a real player and some things that work against a real player don't work against a CPU. This will only result in you developping an anti-CPU playstyle completely inefficient against a human being. Simple examples: 1) Kirby's rock works everytime against a CPU and almost never (or really situationally) against a real player. 2) Spamming rolls to dodge attacks/move on the stage. And there are a lot more. If you played against real players (and good ones) often, then it wouldn't do much harm to play CPUs, but CPUs only is a bad idea.
Shielding is just one element of the overall passive playstyle one would develop against a CPU (again, because it works), and why would you do differently if you only play CPUs? You see that a combo is working against a CPU and you see that a passive* playstyle is working against a CPU, how on earth would you know (if you never play good human players) that the former is something beneficial to keep, while the latter is detrimental to your game? The dilemna holds true for anything that works against a CPU, thus so many Kirby's rock spammers and roll spammers among non competitive players.

*Just so we agree on the definitions, passive doesn't mean defensive. While it is arguable that a defensive playstyle is optimal (or at least very good) in that game, it's not the case of being passive. Being defensive means you work a lot on your spacing (ie putting space between you and your opponent, moving to stay out of their range), while passive is waiting and shielding an aerial then punish on the landing lag (for example).
Now with that in mind, and in addition to what was said above, I think that at your level, we can already see som stuff you do wrong. The problem is (cf my above post) that your things are working against a CPU, so you'll probably won't understand why we say it's bad. So either you trust us, stop doing these things and do worse against a CPU, or you don't and you'll have to play a good human player to notice.

-Learn to shield drop.
-Learn to z-cancel.
-Stop rolling.
-Don't use Up B offensively with Kirby.
-Use more Up tilts with Kirby.
-Don't grab so much with Kirby.
-Use nair instead of fair with Jigglypuff.
-You always edgeguard the same way, so you'll probably miss your edgeguards 99% of the time against a real player, but nothing you can do since CPU don't mix up their recovery.
-Learn to combo instead of spamming smashes.
-When recovering with Jigglypuff, using fair after an air jump makes him goes farther.

Your playstyle is the archetype of the CPU only player. You're doing well against them and because of that you might think
you're doing things right. In fact I believe you need to change your playstyle almost completely. If you really can't manage to set up online play (it's really not difficult though, and plenty of us are willing to help), then I'd say your best bet (assuming you don't have access to good human players) is to watch videos of good players and try to copy what they do. That's what I did with Falcon before I started playing online and got the basic U-air combos down. It will only get you so far though and you'll probably still be destroyed by a good player.

Do you still want the thread to be locked? Since I somewhat tried to answer your question, I'm waiting for a confirmation before I lock it.
 
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No, you answered my question. I do watch videos of others play, but I see where you are coming from. That, and I kept seeing some obvious flaws with the CPUs.
I was having issues with the controllers with puff (something to do with the adapter), so some things I wished I could have done weren't inputted correctly.
I haven't tried online yet again because I need to get an original N64 controller (only one that will work on my PC). However, if things don't work out, I'll adapt on the other 3 games (despite their differences, I'll try to understand the variability when playing against a player).

EDIT: Retried emulator, and controller works well. Don't know what might have happened before, but it works. However, I see frame stuttering (skipping maybe?) when playing, and to me, that annoys me. V-Sync is on (without it, I would be jumping up to 300+ FPS), and full screen didn't help either (checked the graphics plugin settings). You can lock the thread, but I will keep in mind the things you have said.
 
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