Could deliberatley "bad" characters be a thing in project M

[666blaziken]

This was a thing I was thinking about in project M for a while now. A couple of months ago, my roommate was saying that pm lacks bad characters and that was what separated pm from melee and made melee for unique for him, and it created a lot more hype. I thought that was a silly idea at the time because most of the characters were bad in melee because they were badly designed. The worst part is that most of the bad characters outside of pichu and roy didn't make sense considering that their game canon represented them as great fighters. Kirby for example has great air mobility in his own canon, but in melee, he's awful for being really weak and he doesn't have the best air mobility either (bonus in that his 64 iliteration was much stronger) and if the PMDT went out of their way to make one of the current characters bad for the "hype" factor it would be a huge middle finger for those wanting their favorite character to be decent in tourney level play.
However, what if one of PMDT's new characters was bad in their canon so when they are released in smash bros, will people will accept them as bad characters and use them to create hype? It could be slippy, toad, waddle dee, it could be glass joe! The possibilities for awful characters are endless.

I know that the PMDT would probably never make a new character be an awful one, imagine spending 700+ hours making 250 different animations from scratch to create a character that nobody will use in tournament if they are playing seriously. But how would you guys react if pmdt introduced a bad character? I know from past experiences in other games, smash players are skeptical of wasteful characters (clones are a huge complaint made by the smash community) but Street fighter players enjoy Dan as the joke character, and people seem to be fine with pichu being bad in melee, so what about in project M?

 

[Phans]

If Project M had unlimited character slots, then yes, perhaps.

They don't, so no.

 

[McSlur]

I thought Olimar was the joke character?
Until 3.6...

 

[InfinityCollision]

Could? Yes. Should? No.

 

[blu2grut]

I always thought a sandbag character would be nice. Just able to S/DI and maybe dodge.

 

[Phaiyte]

I'm sure you'll think of a way better idea one day.

 

[Draco_The]

Well, you can play as SoPo.

 

[Crulex Crystallite]

Truthfully, once the meta is better understood and the PMDT hits their "only tweaks/final version" mode, that's going to happen naturally.

I think of DDD when I think of a sandbag character. Like yea, he can be really good, but he's SOOO unbelievably slow. If he didn't have a grab, he'd be unplayable.

 

[Keman]

I can understand where he is coming from, like a Dan.

That's how we can nerf Roy! change all his costumes to a single pink one and have all his moves do 50% less dmg with a high chance to trip. (yes I know I have all the good ideas)

 

[CaP_Omega]

When the Project M devteam released this:

I really wanted to play as Slippy. Not really, but really.

 

[Celestis]

I understand this, but don't like the idea. Yeah, Low tier hero's are great and it always awesome to see in Melee. Bug Luigi fan. But that's not what PM is about. I thin kthe most you will get here is when the Tier list finally settles on the final versin and players use the low tier cast. Besides, Falcon is high tier in Melee and he gets more Hype then anything.

 

[Crimda]

As you say, they never would, especially if the character is being built from scratch. No animator and no programmer would want to expend that much effort and time into creating something that won't be taken seriously. However, to entertain the hypothetical question at hand, I don't think the competitive players would be happy. Low tier characters can be fun and watching low tier heroes do amazing things is a joy of its own but that's doing a lot of disproportionate work for a small minority, especially in PM where the cast is really well balanced (compared to other smash games).

 

[Bleck]

The bad characters in Melee aren't badly designed - the good characters in Melee are the ones with poor designs.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I think it'd be fine to have a lethal joke character that appears bad as an intentional first impression, but which can still be used as effectively as anyone else in the roster when played to their natural zenith.

 

[Shellfire]

Are we forgetting that there was a deliberately bad character in melee?

 

[Akuji the Sniper]

If Slippy became the Dan of Project M I'd laugh my ass off. If any character should be a joke it's him.

 

[WT!]

So my opinion of the characters' power is that characters like the Ice Climbers and Olimar are that each of these characters' styles did not fit the game. I believe that for the most part, the worst characters by design are the worst ones in play. Olimar was and is as of the latest version a camping character, which is never going to work out in PM. After removing the Climbers' infinites, they too lost what what made them good. However, some characters, like Link in PM, who is considered a stronger character by most, are bad by design. Taking a Melee mid-tier and buffing the speed and power of his moves until he could compete with the largely unchanged Melee top-tiers was a poor design choice IMO.

 

[MegaMissingno]

The bad characters in Melee aren't badly designed - the good characters in Melee are the ones with poor designs.

Roy's hitboxes literally don't work. If that's not badly designed I don't know what is.

 

[DrinkingFood]

This was a thing I was thinking about in project M for a while now. A couple of months ago, my roommate was saying that pm lacks bad characters and that was what separated pm from melee and made melee for unique for him, and it created a lot more hype. I thought that was a silly idea at the time because most of the characters were bad in melee because they were badly designed. The worst part is that most of the bad characters outside of pichu and roy didn't make sense considering that their game canon represented them as great fighters. Kirby for example has great air mobility in his own canon, but in melee, he's awful for being really weak and he doesn't have the best air mobility either (bonus in that his 64 iliteration was much stronger) and if the PMDT went out of their way to make one of the current characters bad for the "hype" factor it would be a huge middle finger for those wanting their favorite character to be decent in tourney level play.
However, what if one of PMDT's new characters was bad in their canon so when they are released in smash bros, will people will accept them as bad characters and use them to create hype? It could be slippy, toad, waddle dee, it could be glass joe! The possibilities for awful characters are endless.

I know that the PMDT would probably never make a new character be an awful one, imagine spending 700+ hours making 250 different animations from scratch to create a character that nobody will use in tournament if they are playing seriously. But how would you guys react if pmdt introduced a bad character? I know from past experiences in other games, smash players are skeptical of wasteful characters (clones are a huge complaint made by the smash community) but Street fighter players enjoy Dan as the joke character, and people seem to be fine with pichu being bad in melee, so what about in project M?

Solimar, Sopo, eventually hopefully Sopichu

 

[Bleck]

Roy's hitboxes literally don't work. If that's not badly designed I don't know what is.

What do you mean?

 

[Comet7]

The bad characters in Melee aren't badly designed - the good characters in Melee are the ones with poor designs.

even if this is somewhat true, there is still garbage like zelda and bowser.

 

[DrinkingFood]

they aren't even remotely garbage, none of the characters are bad enough in PM to be "garbage" tier

 

[Fortress]

Squirtle and ROB have existed for, like, ever.

What do you mean?

He's referring to being 'Royzoned'. I'm sure you've at least seen it. Roy (even Marth, in some cases) swings at point-blank, whiffs like it's going out of style, gets hit and drops eighteen tier placements (I think he's somewhere in the J-Tier at -36) every time he gets streamed.

 

[MEnKIRBZ]

I want slippy

 

[MEnKIRBZ]

I'd main slippy

 

[Bleck]

He's referring to being 'Royzoned'. I'm sure you've at least seen it. Roy (even Marth, in some cases) swings at point-blank, whiffs like it's going out of style, gets hit and drops eighteen tier placements (I think he's somewhere in the J-Tier at -36) every time he gets streamed.

Is that actually some kind of error, or is that how the hitboxes are structured?

 

[Manaconda]

Is that actually some kind of error, or is that how the hitboxes are structured?

Marth's hitboxes are used for some of Roy's attacks, but their animations are different. Dash attack presented below.

Spoiler

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/28ijyd/roys_dash_attack

 

[MegaMissingno]

He's not the only one with moves that don't work either.

Spoiler

 

[CORY]

several of those were probably deliberate decisions (albeit, probably bad ones) on the melee dev team's part. like, almost everything bad about mewtwo was probably a deliberate decision (though, i can see the confusion being super minus on block being something that happened at last minute crunch time and wasn't noticed). i'm sure the confusion deflecting rather than reflecting was deliberate, as well.

like, dk's charge loss, i think is a universal thing. iirc, if samus has a charge shot built up and gets hit out of upb, you'll lose the charge shot. stupid, but likely deliberate, decision.

kirby's b/fthrows, they probably made escapable because they thought the meteor capabilities were too strong. too easy to escape, but probably deliberate.

gnw's shield is probably just dumb oversight. but i could see sakurai being all "well, he's flat, so bowser shouldn't be able to hurt him with that throw. lolz."

roy's hitboxes, namely that dash attack one, i'm not sure about. i could see them being rushed and messed up because of that, but considering they're built off of marth, they just seem really broken.

 

[InfinityCollision]

There's also things like G&W's un-Lcancelable aerials, Mewtwo's tail hurtboxes not matching his tail position half the time, etc.

 

[CORY]

There's also things like G&W's un-Lcancelable aerials, Mewtwo's tail hurtboxes not matching his tail position half the time, etc.

gnw's non-lcancellable aerials are all the ones that have landing hitboxes, iirc. they're not lcancellable because the workaround the melee dev team had to use was to make them specials.

 

[mellonwdr]

I did not know that you can unlock to FALCO.
someone cann tell me how?

https://youtu.be/QMamfS-eG0w