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Controller Questions

Broccoli_Rob

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
7
Location
Denver, CO
NNID
RobbyCaseria
3DS FC
5300-9247-2918
Hey all,

Just starting to play melee for the first time. Therefore, I have some very, very rudimentary questions about controllers and buttons.

Why do so many players jump using Y or X, instead of "up" on the joystick? Do people generally prefer Y over X, or the other way around? Also, does anyone utilize the L/R + A to perform a grab, or do people mostly just use Z?
Thanks!
 

ECHOnce

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,191
Location
Bellevue, WA
X and Y are better options for jumping because they offer better control of the jump, both in terms of momentum and height. Personally, even if you're already used to using "Tap Jump" (control stick), I would advise swapping to using X/Y. I used tap jump for 10 straight years, but for the reasons below, I endured the struggle of breaking the bad habit over 3-4 weeks of daily practice. It's your choice at the end of the day, but I can honestly say from my experience that it's really helpful to make the swap.

When jumping you can determine how far you wish to move horizontally by holding left/right on the control stick at the same time you jump. With the control stick, I believe maximum horizontal momentum isn't possible, since you have to hold it slightly upwards to have the controller register the jump as well...but even if it is, you could imagine the harder difficulty. Alternatively, you can just hold it all the way and then press X/Y. This is easiest to test out with Captain Falcon, if you want to see for yourself.

Concerning height, Short Hops are much easier to input using X/Y. SHs are essential for SHFFLs, a basic tech that's necessary to just about any character to some degree in competitive play, or even better casual play. They are inputted by pressing a jump button to initiate the jump-squat animation (easiest to see when using Bowser), and then releasing the jump button before they leave the ground. If done correctly, the character will jump a shorter distance than usual. This is easy for X/Y button users because you simply have to tap the button. For control stick users, you have to move it upwards (supposedly considering the direction as well), and then move your finger off of it quick enough for the control stick to return to it's neutral position itself; an action that may be affected by how worn down and used the control stick is.

Z is often the button of choice for grabs, since it enables the use of Jump-Cancelled Grabs (Jump > Z to cancel the jump-squat animation) and Dash-Cancelled Grabs (Dash Attack > Z to cancel the DA animation). R/L+A is commonly only used to Shield-Grab; a common tactic is to shield an attack with R/L, and then pressing A to initiate the grab once the opponent's attack hits the shield and is within grab range.
 
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Broccoli_Rob

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
7
Location
Denver, CO
NNID
RobbyCaseria
3DS FC
5300-9247-2918
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer!!

Very informative and easy to follow. You should consider making tutorials if you don't already.

Again, thanks!!
 

jotun

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Messages
745
Location
Austin, TX
Is there any consensus among top players on X vs Y and L vs R?

I use X and R, but I feel like that's probably the worst possible choice. I have a hard time doing anything advanced with the fox/falco reflector in particular. Wavedashing has also always been a bit awkward, since I feel like I shift my hand into a slightly different position just to do that.

Of course if I try to use Y and L right now, I'm even more clumsy because I'm not used to it. I'm wondering whether it's worth the effort to retrain myself to use them though.
 

ECHOnce

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,191
Location
Bellevue, WA
Is there any consensus among top players on X vs Y and L vs R?

I use X and R, but I feel like that's probably the worst possible choice. I have a hard time doing anything advanced with the fox/falco reflector in particular. Wavedashing has also always been a bit awkward, since I feel like I shift my hand into a slightly different position just to do that.

Of course if I try to use Y and L right now, I'm even more clumsy because I'm not used to it. I'm wondering whether it's worth the effort to retrain myself to use them though.
I don't think L/R buttons matter much past personal preference concerning which hand you use. I do know many players choose to shield with one and WD with the other, which works great for WDing OOS (only in Melee though; doesn't work in PM). Still, WD OOS is possible with just one shoulder button, just takes a little getting used to. I think most people prefer R because using L means putting slightly more pressure on your left thumb, which can mess up your directional input if you don't practice an get used to it.

TBH, I use the same buttons as you - X and R. For X/Y, Y has been argued to be more effective since it's closer to the B button; most spacie mains, even if they use X for jumps, they prefer to use Y for SHLs, SHDLs, Waveshines, etc. However, excepting Multishines, all spacie tech (probably the tightest tech requiring quick X/Y and B inputs) is perfectly doable with X. M2K has said himself that he SHDLs with X because that's what he's used to.

Choice is yours. L/R doesn't matter, but for X/Y, you can either put more time into using X for tech, put a few weeks into getting used to using Y, or use a mixture of using X for jump and Y for tech that's too hard with X. That's how I'd look at it.
 
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