Continuación a la 4BR Tier List v2.0

[Diosdi]

El mes pasado, la 4BR publicó su segunda Tier List oficial para Super Smash Bros. para Wii U.

Spoiler: Versión en imagen

(Imagen por @shrooby)

Después de una discusión interna entre los miembros de la 4BR y otros actores exteriores, nos gustaría responder unas preguntas frecuentes y hablar un poco más de los resultados

Preguntas Frecuentes
​

¿Por qué es la Top Tier más grande que en ediciones anteriores, que contenía solo 3 personajes?

La primera versión presentaba un meta que tenía muy poca variedad de personajes ganando torneos, siendo normalmente estos personajes Sheik y Zero Suit Samus. A pesar de esto, los último seis meses han mostrado mucha más variedad, y más personajes son vistos como una amenaza que pueden ganar torneos de nivel nacional, por lo reflejado a través de los votos los cuales contenían más personajes en las Tiers más altas.

¿Por qué los Miis son solo agregados?

Últimamente, los Miis han sido un tema altamente controversial en Smash 4. Jugadores, figuras y organizadores de torneos en la comunidad no han llegado aún a un consenso sobre cómo manejar estos personajes por su naturaleza.

Decidimos hacerlos solo agregado, no solo tomando en consideración las normas comúnmente usadas (1111 con Miis Invitados, y XXXX con Miis Invitados), pero también dando la opción de abstenerse. El razonamiento detrás de esto no fue solo respetar el hecho que no todas las regiones tienen el mismo reglamento, sino también que no todas las regiones simplemente no saben cómo manejar a éstos.

¿Por qué X personaje es considerado un Low Tier?

Como fue dicho en la primera publicación, los líderes de la 4BR decidieron usar un ranking promedio grupal con los votos – las Tiers, o grupos de personajes, y el orden entre ellos. El rango de puntuación entre los grupos fue entre el rango de 1 y 10, y el equipo decidió trabajar con cinco tiers generales y nueve tiers en total (con las más bajas siendo fusionadas)

Después de ser divididas en cinco, significaba que cualquier personaje con una puntuación de 4.33 o menos pudiera ser considerado un Low Tier. A pesar de que algunos de estos personajes, como Palutena, pueden vencer a los mejores en las manos correctas, varios simplemente tienen fallas muy grandes. Al final, siempre habrá personajes que estén más abajo en la lista que otros.

¿Cuándo se lanzará la tercera versión (v3.0)?

Estamos estimando una publicación cerca de enero de 2017

Diferencias Regionales​

Las desviaciones estándar fueron muy variadas, por lo visto en los datos, pero el consenso para personajes al tope y al fondo de la lista fue muy consistente.

@Shaya compiló los votos entre los votantes japoneses, y los votantes europeos, australianos y latinoamericanos. Ten en cuenta que los votantes en cada grupo son más limitados, y que los números reflejarán las tendencias más que datos cuantitativos.

Spoiler: Japón

Character | Ordered Average | Standard Deviation (Order) | Grouped Average | Standard Deviation (Group)
Cloud | 0.67 | 1.106 | 10.0 | 0.0
Sonic | 1.83 | 1.067 | 10.0 | 0.0
Diddy Kong | 2.33 | 1.374 | 9.76 | 0.532
Rosalina | 2.83 | 1.572 | 10.0 | 0.0
Bayonetta | 5.5 | 3.149 | 9.25 | 0.758
Mario | 5.67 | 2.809 | 8.58 | 0.677
Sheik | 6.83 | 3.532 | 8.64 | 0.993
Mewtwo | 7.33 | 1.886 | 8.5 | 0.768
Zero Suit Samus | 8.0 | 1.291 | 8.16 | 0.378
Fox | 8.83 | 3.184 | 8.16 | 0.378
Ryu | 11.83 | 6.012 | 8.26 | 0.915
Mega Man | 12.67 | 6.316 | 7.55 | 0.955
Pit | 14.83 | 4.67 | 7.55 | 0.955
Pikachu | 15.33 | 3.145 | 7.02 | 0.823
Toon Link | 17.17 | 3.891 | 7.35 | 0.744
Villager | 17.5 | 6.449 | 7.08 | 0.628
Corrin | 17.6 | 6.344 | 6.44 | 1.172
Lucario | 18.0 | 6.683 | 6.94 | 1.14
Captain Falcon | 19.33 | 4.955 | 6.84 | 0.804
Meta Knight | 19.67 | 7.909 | 6.94 | 1.14
Greninja | 20.0 | 3.651 | 7.08 | 0.628
Ness | 21.67 | 6.289 | 6.66 | 0.953
Lucas | 22.5 | 5.909 | 6.5 | 0.653
Olimar | 23.0 | 5.627 | 6.74 | 0.578
Dark Pit | 23.67 | 9.268 | 6.42 | 0.981
Marth | 26.0 | 5.0 | 6.09 | 0.681
Yoshi | 26.0 | 5.26 | 6.09 | 0.681
Peach | 27.33 | 6.368 | 5.81 | 0.727
Duck Hunt Dog | 27.4 | 7.658 | 6.03 | 1.069
Donkey Kong | 28.67 | 3.636 | 5.99 | 0.754
Bowser | 28.67 | 4.346 | 5.57 | 0.421
Lucina | 30.17 | 3.76 | 5.57 | 0.421
R.O.B. | 30.33 | 6.498 | 5.67 | 1.496
Link | 31.33 | 11.441 | 5.69 | 1.235
Wario | 34.17 | 5.241 | 4.92 | 1.24
Mr. Game & Watch | 34.17 | 7.988 | 4.49 | 1.401
Shulk | 34.83 | 6.388 | 4.88 | 1.412
Samus | 34.83 | 6.466 | 4.71 | 0.938
Pac-Man | 35.83 | 3.484 | 5.33 | 0.626
Ike | 36.67 | 6.316 | 4.15 | 0.495
Luigi | 37.17 | 4.18 | 5.0 | 0.71
Robin | 39.33 | 3.771 | 4.15 | 0.495
Bowser Jr. | 39.5 | 8.958 | 4.05 | 1.337
Palutena | 39.83 | 7.29 | 3.58 | 1.524
Little Mac | 44.17 | 2.478 | 3.4 | 0.885
Mii Gunner | 45.6 | 6.621 | 3.24 | 1.103
Charizard | 45.83 | 3.578 | 3.16 | 0.804
Dr. Mario | 47.17 | 6.012 | 3.03 | 1.474
Falco | 47.33 | 3.35 | 2.83 | 0.802
Roy | 49.0 | 2.887 | 2.31 | 0.942
King Dedede | 49.33 | 2.211 | 2.65 | 1.111
Wii Fit Trainer | 49.5 | 2.217 | 2.65 | 0.744
Mii Brawler | 49.8 | 4.578 | 2.67 | 1.153
Kirby | 49.83 | 3.76 | 2.65 | 0.744
Ganondorf | 51.5 | 4.349 | 2.31 | 0.942
Zelda | 53.0 | 3.055 | 2.08 | 0.481
Jigglypuff | 54.5 | 2.141 | 2.08 | 0.481
Mii Swordsman | 55.4 | 1.497 | 1.87 | 0.405

Spoiler: Europa, Australia y América del Sur

Character | Ordered Average | Standard Deviation (Order) | Grouped Average | Standard Deviation (Group)
Diddy Kong | 1.54 | 2.024 | 9.8 | 0.462
Sheik | 1.85 | 2.445 | 9.78 | 0.515
Cloud | 3.23 | 2.081 | 9.6 | 0.599
Rosalina | 3.31 | 1.682 | 9.37 | 0.685
Mario | 4.31 | 2.162 | 9.47 | 0.68
Sonic | 4.92 | 2.702 | 9.28 | 0.67
Fox | 5.54 | 1.906 | 9.06 | 0.641
Zero Suit Samus | 7.46 | 1.781 | 8.65 | 0.509
Mewtwo | 7.85 | 3.348 | 8.74 | 0.387
Ryu | 8.31 | 3.75 | 8.63 | 0.757
Bayonetta | 9.85 | 4.383 | 8.54 | 1.024
Pikachu | 13.46 | 3.388 | 7.6 | 0.882
Meta Knight | 14.85 | 5.855 | 7.53 | 0.804
Villager | 15.0 | 3.464 | 7.36 | 0.478
Ness | 15.15 | 2.957 | 7.4 | 0.75
Mega Man | 16.23 | 5.78 | 7.26 | 0.622
Toon Link | 16.85 | 3.301 | 7.19 | 0.529
Marth | 17.54 | 6.046 | 7.3 | 0.643
Greninja | 18.08 | 5.385 | 7.06 | 0.918
Corrin | 19.31 | 4.444 | 7.16 | 0.696
Lucario | 20.31 | 6.043 | 6.56 | 0.767
Captain Falcon | 21.85 | 4.538 | 6.68 | 0.477
Donkey Kong | 23.54 | 4.749 | 6.34 | 0.661
R.O.B. | 24.31 | 4.889 | 6.14 | 0.811
Pit | 25.31 | 4.357 | 6.03 | 0.764
Yoshi | 25.69 | 4.746 | 6.36 | 0.727
Dark Pit | 25.85 | 4.737 | 6.03 | 0.764
Luigi | 26.31 | 6.741 | 5.9 | 1.186
Peach | 26.62 | 7.022 | 5.98 | 1.048
Bowser | 29.92 | 6.65 | 5.33 | 0.968
Lucina | 31.31 | 7.936 | 5.34 | 1.102
Lucas | 31.46 | 3.319 | 5.44 | 0.735
Robin | 32.77 | 5.423 | 5.22 | 0.782
Ike | 32.92 | 6.318 | 5.14 | 0.702
Wario | 33.46 | 3.177 | 5.19 | 0.617
Olimar | 33.46 | 8.915 | 5.22 | 1.216
Little Mac | 36.31 | 7.549 | 4.67 | 0.929
Mr. Game & Watch | 36.85 | 6.15 | 4.77 | 1.008
Link | 37.77 | 7.617 | 4.47 | 1.259
Palutena | 38.54 | 4.846 | 4.43 | 0.791
Duck Hunt Dog | 38.85 | 4.974 | 4.39 | 0.898
Pac-Man | 39.15 | 6.274 | 4.16 | 1.127
Kirby | 42.46 | 3.875 | 3.88 | 0.774
Wii Fit Trainer | 42.54 | 5.198 | 4.06 | 0.606
Samus | 43.54 | 6.246 | 3.66 | 1.552
Roy | 44.62 | 4.306 | 3.53 | 0.778
Shulk | 45.92 | 3.222 | 3.45 | 0.671
Bowser Jr. | 46.38 | 2.843 | 3.15 | 0.879
Falco | 46.38 | 4.234 | 3.01 | 1.142
Dr. Mario | 46.54 | 3.855 | 3.25 | 0.667
King Dedede | 47.69 | 6.169 | 3.03 | 1.504
Charizard | 49.0 | 2.542 | 2.9 | 0.963
Mii Brawler | 49.0 | 11.328 | 2.49 | 1.694
Mii Gunner | 51.67 | 5.935 | 2.04 | 1.1
Zelda | 52.15 | 1.833 | 1.87 | 0.598
Mii Swordsman | 52.5 | 5.708 | 1.83 | 1.111
Ganondorf | 52.92 | 0.997 | 1.78 | 0.639
Jigglypuff | 54.54 | 1.216 | 1.56 | 0.449

Para mayor referencia, aquí esta los datos puros de votación:

Spoiler: Datos Puros

Character | Ordered Average | Standard Deviation (Order) | Grouped Average | Standard Deviation (Group) | Weighted Group | Difference from v1.0
Diddy Kong | 1.32 | 1.501 | 9.88 | 0.391 | 9.95 | +8
Cloud | 2.18 | 2.18 | 9.84 | 0.418 | 9.91 | +10
Sheik | 2.66 | 2.734 | 9.65 | 0.7 | 9.82 | -2
Rosalina | 3.39 | 2.085 | 9.66 | 0.634 | 9.85 | -1
Mario | 4.88 | 2.443 | 9.33 | 0.786 | 9.62 | +3
Sonic | 5.39 | 2.756 | 9.29 | 0.733 | 9.61 | ±0
Fox | 5.88 | 2.376 | 9.15 | 0.776 | 9.56 | ±0
Zero Suit Samus | 7.09 | 2.182 | 8.83 | 0.782 | 9.28 | -6
Ryu | 8.41 | 4.165 | 8.68 | 0.874 | 9.14 | -5
Mewtwo | 8.46 | 3.07 | 8.72 | 0.73 | 9.21 | +27
Bayonetta | 8.93 | 3.914 | 8.74 | 0.885 | 9.14 | New
Pikachu | 13.88 | 3.274 | 7.67 | 0.9 | 8.26 | -7
Meta Knight | 14.54 | 5.931 | 7.62 | 1.092 | 8.17 | -4
Villager | 15.07 | 4.358 | 7.51 | 0.806 | 8.08 | -3
Mega Man | 15.93 | 5.837 | 7.4 | 0.937 | 7.95 | +13
Ness | 16.39 | 4.916 | 7.41 | 1.068 | 8 | -3
Toon Link | 16.64 | 3.739 | 7.23 | 0.836 | 7.82 | +5
Corrin | 17.85 | 6.337 | 7.15 | 1.107 | 7.66 | New
Marth | 19.36 | 6.852 | 7.01 | 1.063 | 7.47 | +23
Captain Falcon | 20.95 | 4.615 | 6.72 | 0.922 | 7.26 | -6
Greninja | 21.11 | 5.731 | 6.8 | 1.052 | 7.32 | +4
Lucario | 21.52 | 5.405 | 6.63 | 0.968 | 7.14 | +1
Yoshi | 23.64 | 5.201 | 6.42 | 0.984 | 6.9 | -8
Pit | 23.73 | 6.264 | 6.39 | 1.115 | 6.83 | -6
Donkey Kong | 24.41 | 4.854 | 6.27 | 0.98 | 6.68 | +2
Peach | 24.52 | 5.898 | 6.2 | 1.079 | 6.64 | -7
Dark Pit | 24.89 | 5.888 | 6.27 | 1.044 | 6.68 | -10
R.O.B. | 25.64 | 5.393 | 6.08 | 1.17 | 6.51 | -8
Luigi | 27.34 | 6.583 | 5.95 | 1.126 | 6.26 | -13
Olimar | 30.93 | 7.914 | 5.62 | 1.338 | 5.94 | -6
Robin | 30.98 | 6.396 | 5.42 | 0.931 | 5.61 | ±0
Bowser | 31.55 | 5.812 | 5.23 | 1.018 | 5.4 | -2
Lucas | 32.18 | 7.071 | 5.17 | 1.149 | 5.34 | +3
Wario | 32.61 | 4.471 | 5.26 | 0.943 | 5.43 | -13
Ike | 32.68 | 5.711 | 5.06 | 1.03 | 5.08 | -7
Lucina | 34.52 | 7.746 | 4.95 | 1.178 | 5.08 | +13
Mr. Game & Watch | 37.8 | 6.637 | 4.38 | 1.337 | 4.33 | +1
Pac-Man | 38.73 | 6.016 | 4.34 | 1.097 | 4.18 | -6
Little Mac | 38.8 | 6.891 | 4.21 | 1.149 | 4.01 | +7
Palutena | 38.91 | 5.881 | 4.11 | 1.156 | 3.94 | +12
Kirby | 39.27 | 6.413 | 4.23 | 1.166 | 4.06 | -5
Duck Hunt | 40 | 7.697 | 4.21 | 1.303 | 4.05 | +3
Link | 40.64 | 8.186 | 4.09 | 1.338 | 3.94 | +1
Shulk | 41.77 | 6.753 | 3.86 | 1.267 | 3.6 | -2
Samus | 42.66 | 6.459 | 3.71 | 1.186 | 3.49 | +8
Bowser Jr. | 43.18 | 5.907 | 3.61 | 1.138 | 3.33 | -10
Wii Fit Trainer | 43.18 | 5.465 | 3.65 | 1.043 | 3.35 | -5
Dr. Mario | 45.16 | 4.554 | 3.47 | 1.051 | 3.11 | -1
Falco | 45.75 | 4.141 | 3.25 | 1.036 | 2.86 | -9
Roy | 46.02 | 5.323 | 3.38 | 1.191 | 3.08 | -15
Charizard | 48.27 | 3.763 | 2.82 | 1.077 | 2.48 | ±0
King Dedede | 49.02 | 4.06 | 2.7 | 1.146 | 2.32 | -6
Mii Gunner | 51.26 | 6.322 | 2.28 | 1.124 | 1.7 | +2
Mii Brawler | 51.89 | 6.696 | 2.26 | 1.316 | 1.76 | -3
Zelda | 52.07 | 2.235 | 1.92 | 0.616 | 1.49 | +3
Ganondorf | 52.66 | 2.254 | 1.9 | 0.651 | 1.47 | ±0
Mii Swordfighter | 53.85 | 3.951 | 2.04 | 0.947 | 1.53 | -2
Jigglypuff | 53.98 | 1.433 | 1.72 | 0.604 | 1.35 | -1

Análisis Específico​

Similar a versiones anteriores, algunos personajes tuvieron una posición más disputada y más controversial, al igual que ciertos casos merecen ser mencionados y explicados.


Esta vez, Link fue el personaje más controversial, según las votaciones. Mucha de ésta discusión fue porque los mejores resultados de Link vinieron después del período de votación. Apareció esparcido a través de todas las Tiers, lo cual lo hizo un caso muy relevante. Si Link puede mantener tales resultados, puede que sba en siguientes versiones de la Tier List.


Olimar tuvo la segunda desviación estándar más grande. Considerando que posee unos resultados más dispersos, y teniendo menos expertos sobre el personaje, no vino como sorpresa tanta variedad de opiniones.

@Myran, miembro de la 4BR y conocido como uno de los mejores Olimar del mundo, dió su opinion sobre el caso de Olimar (traducción pendiente):

So Olimar is a character that most players including some Olimar players consider bad. His results aren't as strong as other characters, but I think that's due to other circumstances as opposed to the characters flaws. Most top Olimar's including myself don't travel out of their states that often. For various reasons, mine being money, this means he doesn't get very strong displays often. He's not perfect, but he's top 15 imo, and easily high tier. I do generally well in FL almost always landing top 8 at the big tournaments here, and have been for awhile. I know Shuton does very well in Japan even making top 3 at some of the stacked ones. There's some other good placings, but I don't know them all.

What I think really holds Olimar back in many players eyes is that they either have interactions with him that skew their perspective and make them thing oh he's not good. (Looking at the regions with Olimar players who may not be as strong) Information regarding him that has circulated, but is only a part of his overall character. The information I'm talking about is how Pikmin clank. Yes they are considered projectiles. However, they have some interesting properties that allow them to circumvent the issue of clanking when performed right. To add to this they're some of the best projectiles in the game only really losing to ones that can't be stopped. Examples being Thoron, fully charged Water Shuriken, and ROB Laser.

So let me break down some of the techniques and things Olimar can do to circumvent his largest issue, the clanking. There's something that I coined a "desync smash". This happens when Olimar is moving and starts a smash after the movement. So if he's running and does an up-smash or a pivot fsmash, or if he's falling and lands with a smash (Usually dsmash) it can trigger it. What happens is if the opponent throws out and attack it can catch the Pikmin during the start of the smash before it's hitbox comes out, it's hurtbox is out because it has been desynced by the smash. By the opponent throwing out an attack it locks the Pikmins position in place (This means the Pikmin will smash from where it was as opposed to where Olimar is currently), and finishes the smash. (Once a smash is started it can't be stopped or killed during the attack) Since the opponents attack hit the Pikmin before the smash hitbox came out the opponent is stuck there in the animation. This allows the smash to commence uninterrupted hitting them. I've punished some of the best moves in the game with this, True Shoryuken being one of them. It does sound situational, but with continued practice I'm getting better and better at making it happen. Since it's really just awareness and positioning it's a viable tool to punish attacks you cannot normally. On a smaller not you can do this technique to a similar extent without desyncing the position. Whenever a smash is being charged the Pikmin sits their with it's hurtbox active, this means when spaced right it can soak hits then release hitting the opponent. It's how Olimar can punish things like Shuttle Loop, Mario Up-B, Shoryuken, and more under the ledge when they have hitboxes. Actually if the moves trade at the right time Olimar may even be hit, but the smash will still hit them since their move hit something. This is just one of the tools Olimar has to work around his weaknesses.

Another big advantage he can gain is lagging his opponents hitbox's with his Pikmin. This can backfire at times, but I'd say a solid 90% of the time it's allowed me to punish moves I couldn't normally. It's also allowed me to dodge ones I shouldn't have been able too. This is an extremely important use of the Pikmin, and is again something I feel more Olimar players should put into practice.

He can pressure extremely well with the proper lineup. Having two to three purples can allow him to pressure shield better than most if not all characters in the game imo. Retreating purple bair is safe on shield, and when coupled with purple side-b before hand it can allow for strong pressure. His smashes are also notorious for poking shields. (I hear this complaint from players to often to ignore it) His dsmash can break shield when up close since both Pikmin can hit shield, and with a red and purple or two purples it's not hard to take it from 100% to 0%. His nair is a great way to snub out the approaching opponents move since it's a nice long multihit.

His defensive options also help him reduce the issue of being juggled somewhat easily. He has whistle which has super armor frames 6-12 and very little lag allowing you to tank a hit, and then punish most of the opponents moves. B-Reverse Pikmin Pluck allows him to switch his momentum and direction similar to what whistle did in Brawl. His up-b can be used as a third jump and immediately canceled into an aerial if need be. (It can also get out of combos and multihits often). He's hard to gimp since his recovery covers so much distance, and he can chuck purples towards you to put of some hitboxes while he recovers.

What I'm getting at is that he has strong tools to combat the opponent, and he can be the aggressor with the proper lineup. The biggest thing holding him back is how unforgiving he is to play. He requires more than just managing Pikmin, his spacings and timings have to be very precise most of the time. Unlike most characters, being off makes you just outright lose the transaction or have a Pikmin do a standard desync. (Most desyncs can be worked around with proper spacing and awareness) It's a work in progress from me and other top Olimars. I think once we start attending more it'll make him look better to most, but for the time people are seeing what is a work in progress. He doesn't have amazing confirms like ZSS, Ryu, or others. He has some, and they're strong, just not as over-centralizing as theirs. I'm one to look at Olimar's abilities when people can actually put his tools into proper use. I've had days where I felt I could take any character in the game no problems just by using his tools properly. So if people wanna tell me why they feel he's mid tier or worse I'd love to hear it. I don't think saying results really does it justice, because in the states where he's present he usually does well. He just doesn't get to attend nationals that often.

La disscusión detrás de Lucina vino por la diferencia relativa a Marth, y si éstos dos deberían ser agrupados. Al final, la 4BR decidió que las diferencias entre estos dos son muy grandes como para unirlos. Aún así, saltó unos 13 puestos, habiend subido Marth unos 23 puestos.

Otro de los temas de discusión más grande es cómo figuran las limitaciones de Lucina a la hora de compararla con Marth, como por ejemplo, la falta de resultados en torneos.

@M@v, jugador de Fox y Lucina, y miembro de la 4BR dió un análisis muy profundo sobre la diferencia entre los personajes (traducción pendiente):

Lucina's placement compared to Marth is an issue that is brought up quite often, and it is again the case with the new tier list. Why is Lucina, a character that is almost identical to Marth, not right next to him/tied with him on the tier list? Before we dive into this with more detail, let's start off by pointing out in earlier patches, Marth and Lucina were indeed much closer to eachother. But overtime, the list of buffs they received helped Marth more in the longrun than Lucina. This is in addition to the inherent advantages the tipper mechanic has in many situations. Let's break it down:

Let me preface by briefly covering how their swords work.
Lucina does not have a tipper, but her sword does what is approximately inbetween a marth tipper and non tipper in terms of damage and knockback along the entire blade (I can hunt the exact stats later; pretty sure they are in the Marcina boards). This brings up the fact that Lucina gets more damage out any attack that is not tippered compared to Marth. For a good while, this was the cornerstone of the pro Lucina argument: Unless you were perfect, Lucina could potentially be more beneficial in the longrun since you will not be landing every single attack as a tipper, no matter how good you are as a player.

With that aside, lets dive in.

First, the patch changes that affected Marth and Lucina. There were multiple patch changes that affected them roughly the same (IE slight % increases in damage here and there), but there were two patch changes in particular that helped Marth especially.

The big one: The shield stun changes.
When the patch rolled around that introduced increased shield stun (I need to go back and double check which one), this had a massive impact on Marth. Tippers induce a lot more shield stun on an opponent. The result of this is that Marth can be much safer than Lucina when attacking a shielding opponent. With proper spacing, his tippers moves can be much harder for a shielding opponent to punish. Having this huge safety advantage over Lucina pays massive dividends, especially when having to face down top tier characters where a couple frames can mean the difference between being safe and being punished.

The 2nd change is the downthrow change. This change allows Marth and Lucina to use down throw as a more effect combo starter and 50-50 creator. The difference is Marth gained true tipper combos from this, giving him another guaranteed way to deal out maximized damage. This is something Lucina doesn't gain since she has the same hitbox all around.

All of Marth and Lucina's A moves follow the same principle for the most part: Marth's will be better if spaced, Lucina's will be superior if not. Marth can gain some better combos though by hitting with untippered moves, which will lead into tippered follow ups easier.

Their grabs and throws are exactly identical. Both do the same things at the same %s

Their Special moves is where it has been argued Lucina has an advantage. But does she really? Depends.

(B) Shield breaker: Although Lucina's is still a powerful move, Marth's give the strongest chance to break shield while charging the least amount of time due to tippers. Both have stock ending potential though.

(Side B) Dancing blade: In general, Lucina's is much more reliable in terms of KO potential. The last hit of Lucina's side b is pretty strong and can end stocks at decent percents. That being said, Marth's can tipper more often than people realize. Following an opponents DI and ending it with a side direction or up direction attack pending their DI can net you a tipper quite often, as well as just bad DI from an opponent. As you can imagine, this can net super early kills.

(up B) Dolphin slash This move is pretty much better for lucina in most situations. Most times this move is used to recover, a combo finisher, or as an out of shield option where it is very hard to control spacing. Lucinas will result in more consistent KOs.

(down b) counter: Again, a toss up. Marth's will have the edge here though I believe, as in a lot of situations you should be able to not only read an opponent's move to counter, but properly space yourself to hit with a tipper. Sometimes though, spacing is impossible.

Lucina also has a fatal flaw in her design. In most matchups, despite having the ability to do consistent damage anywhere on the blade, she has to play the spacing game anyway to be the safest. So essentially, so has to play like marth and go for tippers to remain as safe as possible anyway. In these situations, you are being directly gimped by not being Marth in a matchup where you have to play like Marth. A straight downgrade.

Last but not least, results. This section speaks for itself. Marth has much better and consistent results in the current meta. Players my Mr.E and Pugwest have put up solid results with Marth, top 16ing major events. Meanwhile, Lucina is nowhere to be seen in those higher placings.

Lucas también tuvo una de las puntuaciones mas disputadas. Gran parte de los votos parecen menospreciar sus habilidades, normalmente considerándolo una versión inferior de Ness, y que también es eclipsado por este. Desde la primera versión, más jugadores han comenzado a usarlo, pero aún así está en la 33era posición, solo tres posiciones más arriba que antes.

@Luco, actualmente cuarto en el ranking australiano, dió su opinión sobre Lucas (traducción pendiente):

Lucas has had a strange ride to where he's seen in the current meta today. His initital release saw muddied opinions of him as people still clung to him as the inferior Ness; gladly this trend fell off over time and people begun to realise Lucas was his own unique character with his own unique competitive playstyle. That playstyle wasn't immediately clear however - Lucas proved to be a difficult character to use, which may have contributed to his lack of results immediately post-release: People focused too much on playing him as either hyper aggressive or hyper defensive, both of which have some merit but ultimately Lucas fell into a counter-poking archetype, and this appears to be - for now - where his greatest strength lies, in forcing an opponent's approach (which he does in the vast majority of match-ups), then punishing that approach with a wide array of highly safe boxing moves (aerials, specials, Zair, jabs, tilts). This is an obvious contrast to the zone-breaking, grappler playstyle of Ness, and yet many use both PSI kids as secondaries or dual mains.

Lucas, it was predicted by many, would rise to join the ranks of the upper tiers, but no-one really knew where or when that shift would begin. For a long time Lucas' results were heavily carried by Taiheta in Japan with not much else to show for him but more recently we've seen notable wins or results from Kodystri (previously known as Xanos), Mekos, PK Blueberry, Jebb, Hakii, Cheezeballer and more, as well as a positively-trending usage of Lucas with bastions of high-level mains worldwide. Taiheta's performance at EVO rings as a notable stand-out and yet much of Lucas' recent work came at a time where many back-room members were inactive or had already submitted their votes. Additionally, it's still hard to place Lucas based off results alone, and while he appears to have strong MU niches vs high tiers such as Ryu, Bayonetta, Meta Knight, Pikachu, Mario and Ness (he doesn't necessarily win all of these of course), he also has questionable match-ups with characters such as Diddy Kong, Cloud and Greninja.

This I feel has contributed to his current placing at #33 on the current tier list. However with results continuing to trend positively for Lucas and a growing set of mains appearing globally, Lucas' option-rich playstyle is sure to yield more benefits and he is currently looking brightly towards the future.

Su desviación estándar no fue lo que lo llevó a estar aquí, fue el hecho de no estar junto a su par, Pit. La razón de esto viene generalente por diferencias regionales. Votos japoneses reflejan que esta región piensa que Dark Pit es inferior a Pit, mayormente por su falta de controle de flechas. Aunque en la lista final solo tiene dos puestos de diferencia, la lista japonesa tenía una diferencia de doce puestos.

Cuando los votos fuera de Japón balancearon esto, Dark Pit estuvo casi a sólo un punto de Pit, con Donkey Kong y Peach llenando el espacio entre ambos.


Tal vez una de las posiciones más interesantes es la de Cloud, estando en el segundo puesto. A pesar de no tener tantos buenos resultados durante el último verano, ha sido todavía un personaje relevante. Aunque no tiene suficientes resultados en los Estados Unidos, Japón los posicionó primero con sus votos. Últimamente, más maneras de contrarrestar a Cloud han surgido. Aunque todavía es dominante en la categoría de Dobles, es posible que caiga unos puestos en siguientes versiones al menos que su uso se dispare por las nubes.


Mewtwo hizo una buena impresión en los últimos seis meses. Después de ser bendecido por varias actualizaciones y balances, Abadango ganó Pound 2016 con él, dando la impresión de que Mewtwo es una amenaza a la cual temer. A pesar de un aumento exponencial en el uso de Mewtwo, no ha visto grandes resultados aparte de Pound, aunque esto no lo detuvo de avanzar 27 puestos y quedar justo abajo de Bayonetta.

Conclusión​

Esperamos que estas explicaciones hayan dado un poco de luz sobre cómo fue conducida la votación, la creación de la lista, y los aspectos mas controversiales. Con el meta siendo todavía moldeado y las verdaderas fortalezas de ciertos personajes apenas apareciendo, Smash 4 todavía tiene mucho potencial y evolución por delante. Como siempre, esperamos sus reacciones en los comentarios

Agradecimientos especiales a @Shaya por proveer los datos, y @Popi, @A10theHero y Diosdi por la redacción de este artículo

 

[Stormghetti]

Oh, no sabía que había traducciones para esto... ¡Genial!

 

[xed122]

Gracias por la traduccion diosdi, habet si nos vemos en un mun este año

 

[Diosdi]

Gracias por la traduccion diosdi, habet si nos vemos en un mun este año

voy a varios este lapso, de que delegación eres?

 

[xed122]

voy a varios este lapso, de que delegación eres?

Lasamun, a cuales vas a mi me invitaron a srimun pero no se si voy

 

[Diosdi]

Lasamun, a cuales vas a mi me invitaron a srimun pero no se si voy

si voy a sri, si vas ahi, voy a ser fiscalía en corte

 

[xed122]

si voy a sri, si vas ahi, voy a ser fiscalía en corte

Lo mas probable es que valla aunque sea de observador por que mis amigos de munes creo van xD yo quiero ir a delegar pero con mi delegacion es un peo :/