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It's worth noting that in the latest games, both IV breeding and EV training are very much in your face and easy for people who no idea about either, what you're saying here real only applies to previous generations. Pokemon made some great changes that makes team breeding incredibly accessible and easy.
IVs are actually pretty easy now with Destiny Knot passing on five IVs and safari 'mons having two perfect IVs. Even then, just toss a few junkers onto wondertrade and you'll probably get a few three to five IV 'mons. I can get a battle ready 'mon with it's best egg moves in a day now that I have a ton of five IV 'mons.
The idea is for casuals to at least know what's happening. They know what you're doing when you throw them or spot dodge. L-canceling could be reasonably taught to mid-level players considering it's just one button. 'Course, they could just reduce lag all-around and they wouldn't notice.
Agreed. It's not exactly a advanced "tech" to do, so even in bragging rights it does and should do nothing. Completly useless mechanic. It's always good to do, always simple to do and very easy to do. Why even have that input there? Makes no sense. I hope they have it automated in Smash4.
No, it's something that should be done manually. Take L-Cancelling Link's Dair. If you are going to do Link's Dair and feel like it wont hit, you can L-Cancel early. But if you are doing Link's Dair and you have a good read and it will hit, you will want to L-Canceling after it hits to prevent landing lag. Automating L-Canceling will make no distinction between when you might want to and when you want to wait for a hit to L-Cancel.Agreed. It's not exactly a advanced "tech" to do, so even in bragging rights it does and should do nothing. Completly useless mechanic. It's always good to do, always simple to do and very easy to do. Why even have that input there? Makes no sense. I hope they have it automated in Smash4.
Not that I care that much personaly since I've done it forever and it is, as said, easy to do once you learn it (wich you do very quickly). But it might be nice for new players with one less barrier to get past or find out about. Also would make some of my casual playing mates a bit more of a challenge to face, since they are not bothered L-canceling at all as it is
What? I don't see how automatic L-cancel wouldn't work there anyways? (I never play Link so go easy on me). Still, even if so, having L-canceling manually because of one or a very few certain scenarios is silly. Then rather redesign Links D-air accordingly, I'm sure there is another way to solve that issue. Complexity not worth what it gives in my "good game design"-book.
That is only one example. Listing them all would be time consuming but every character would benefit from having manual L-Canceling.What? I don't see how automatic L-cancel wouldn't work there anyways? (I never play Link so go easy on me). Still, even if so, having L-canceling manually because of one or a very few certain scenarios is silly. Then rather redesign Links D-air accordingly, I'm sure there is another way to solve that issue. Complexity not worth what it gives in my "good game design"-book.
Hard to argue about it then when no examples can be put forth. I actually don't think it would be advantageous in many aspects at all. When do you mean that you are opting to NOT L-cancel?
Well, your argument is to ignore examples of why L-canceling is usefully and dismiss it because you don't want to use it. But just because of some people don't want it doesn't mean the rest of them should have it.
So it takes skill to use... 1% of the time. What's stopping you from pressing it when you would of landed and when you actually do, anyway? Would I be incorrect if I said it basically takes no skill to use? It's not even a tech barrier, it's a knowledge barrier.
A dumb and false equivocation. Either show your work on how L-Canceling works for every move to show that only 1% of the time or admit you are just making up numbers solely to support your own claims based on your own opinions.
Making up more stupid non factual statements here. I don't even know what this was meant to rebuke because it's random and dumb. My main argument is that because some players don't use L canceling doesn't mean you should take L-Canceling away from the people who love using it.
DID MY FALSE EQUIVOCATIONS AND MADE UP STATISTIC NOT CONVINCE YOU? WELL, IM SURE MAKING UP A FAKE REALITY CERTAINLY WILL, BECAUSE A FAKE, PARALLEL UNIVERSE WHICH IS DIFFERENT AND THUS HAVE NO BEARING ON THE ARGUMENT WILL PROVE MY POINT. WHY AM I SHOUTING? I'M NOT MY CAP LOCK IS BROKEN.
You mean to say that Melee was outright designed for hardcore gamers? Yeah, no. You see those two rectangles in the bottom-right corner that you don't use? The majority uses them. SSB was designed as the un-competitive un-fighting game, and the support for P3 and P4 is proof enough.
I'm confused as to the context in which you replied to me
I'm in disagreement with you. Melee wasn't designed to be competitive, it was just a coincidence it turned out playable competitively at all. These 'anti-competitives' were the very people the SSB series was aimed at. Sakurai supposedly made Brawl the way it was to spite competitives? No, he reaimed it back to the audience it originally attracted. You're lucky he's even considering hardcore play now.
You make a good point but making the game more casual is like making an Airplane that can also function as a boat and then removing the water capabilities because that's not what was originally intended.
See, that is the problem
I think Sakurai understands that now. But I still think all the complaining about Brawl's changes was pretty unwarranted and whiny. It's really more like going from a wheelie chair good for pulling stunts to a chair not good for stunts with how small the competitive community is.
Sounds like you're implying some loudmouth casuals ruined your fun to me. And since 99% of Melee fans are in it for the competition, it's a safe bet for me to throw my little factoid out there.
No, what I'm implying is that some loudmouths ruined it for both casuals AND competitive players
See, the weird thing is, I thought he was implying the "loudmouths" were competitive players. 'Cause, y'know, back when Brawl's demo was first playable, some competitive players focused on finding and abusing ATs in Brawl, which caught Sakurai's attention. They were, consequently, removed in the final release.
Well, sorry for jumping to conclusions.
I honestly don't believe a couple average joes discovered such a major thing in a day when Sakurai's team hadn't found it yet. I find it more likely a demo build had it's traction or something tampered with and was sent out with the big glitch knowingly.
I disable custom font colors by default in the forum options.
Ehm, I said I can't see how it affects that situation and asked you to explain further. I also said I thought keeping L-cancel in for such rare events only is bad game design and is just needles complexity for what it offers. Where the hell did you get the "You ignore examples and dismiss something cause you personally don't want to use it" from? I said nothing of the sort and I'd appreciate if you didn't make stuff up, doesn't really give a civil and healthy discussion. I just take it you had nothing to come with. If you do, please answer me in a pm, so we dont clog up this thread with off topic L-cancel rambling anymore!
I second this.
I'm doubtful much will slip past anyway with the Tekken team around, and there seems to be less changed this time around. Like how Brawl's DACUS and such probably came to be because of the different controllers and custom controls, but SSB4's only significant change is the ledge mechanics.
Well they say that but so far the ledges are still very much messed up. There was one infinite in melee that is possible to be done by a human player, nothing else so no problem. And OP glitches? I haven't heard of any that are actually glitches and not mechanics of the game that was in a previous game. Like smooth landing. Wavedashing was the physics of the game.
Ness' yoyo glitch in melee is an example I can think of right off the bat. Pun intended. I mean, it wasn't OP in that it didn't change the whole metagame or anything, but anyway I think it was more of a hypothetical point. If any unexpected glitches or things do end up coming up post-release, Nintendo will pay attention and patch it.
How are the ledges messed-up? No more ridiculous Melee edgehogging or deaths because you were an inch above the ledge the opponent grabbed.
Intentionally left in =/= intentionally put in.
