Complex Positioning Stuff vs marth

[Smoke and smash]

Math will camp the ledges. Fox will use lasers to counter. Marth can then counter by spacing different lengths from the edge they ae camping near. The marth may even hold position at 2/5 the boards length distance away from said ledge, even threatening your side of mid stage. This is used to put pressure back on the lasering fox. The only area this leaves fox to shoot lasers from is the farthest point near the opposite ledge, but marth position will be allowing him to easily advance right up in fox's face with one wavedash. Once your in this position, marth has you near the edge once more, putting him again in a favorable position, as he will begin to approach you near the ledge.


Is it better to try and avoid this situation altogether? By meeting marth mid field? Do Jman lasers solve this?

Which character is better (generally) close to a ledge? In what ways must each character operate in order to play their best edge game (edge game philosophy). This includes spacing, choice of moves, movement, positioning.

How easily can an edge situation be reversed for both fox and marth?

What are the counter, counter strategies to prevent a reversal of pressure on yourself?



Questions are to be answered if the match is on fd.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Don't get grabbed and you're fine. Don't fall into his traps (like nair->utilt). Get in his spacing and don't let him go.

As far as positioning, you don't want your back to the edge as fox. You need room to dd around his sword so you can move in and punish. If you camp under the opposite platform and marth takes the middle, you are going to get slowly choked out of range until your only options are to go onto the platform (bad), off the stage (bad) or into marth (bad bad).

You want to get marth's back to the edge, which is sort of like playing with fire, but you should be fine as long as you don't get grabbed. His grab game is centered around his dd, if you choke him out he has to shield grab which is your mistake if you let it happen.


Oh i didn't realize this was FD. FD is marth's best stage in this match-up, imo. Neither player should be choking out the other's dd, which is the good news. The bad news is marth's ground game is going to let him get easy hits on you and you have no platforms to escape with.

there is a lot more to this match-up than what i posted but i don't feel like typing anymore so someone can come correct me or add on if they want.

 

[Smoke and smash]

See the thing about getting marths back to the edge, is really, really bad for fox if the marth is smart. Marth can play a bit out from the ledge, and allow fox to push him back towards the edge with his back facing the edge, and then...bam shield grab or a timed grab in general and he down throws and takes a stock a good amount of the time.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

marth can't plan a shield grab, its the fox's mistake to make.

If you miss-space and get grabbed it your fault. Space better.

Back to the edge isn't that bad for marth, you should just camp him and make him approach you. When he DIs forward with an aerial, grab/nair him after it. Marth's aerials are really only safe when done DIing backwards

 

[Smoke and smash]

I'm aware of this. When he di's back he leaves a hitbox in front of him, a wall if you will. I always counter with nair/grab when marth fairs towards me.

It's hard for marth to shield grab against fox but it happens. Even at the professional level...it happens. No fox player is good enough eliminate shield grabs 100% of the time in 100% of the matches (especially against marth). Also, marth can time an offensive grab and still be in ledge range...

Anyway, another question: when marth has fox cornered on a ledge, what is the best way for fox to deal with d-tilt pressure?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Try rolling into him and shining. 1) this messes with his spacing. 2) he has to cover that option, and be aware of it in order to punish it in the future. this will give you a little more breathing room with your spacing.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Okay, thanks dude. I always end up side stepping the d-tilts until I can sidestep a f-smash (it will usually come out eventually) and then upsmash/grab. I needed a better way to deal with d-tilts though because timing a sidestep for every single down tilt is a ridiculous way to deal with that.

 

[Velox]

Marth doesn't "camp the ledges", he camps the whole f***in stage!

 

[Silk]

marth Doesn't "camp The Ledges", He Camps The Whole F***in Stage!

GET OUT THE TENTS MANG, Marth match coming up

 

[Che_Lab]

what would be the best stage to CP marth on?
including CPs

pokefloats?????

best neutral would be appreciated too

 

[Little England]

I like Marth on Dreamland.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

marth will change characters if you take him to a CP stage.

if you want him to stay marth you gotta keep it to the neutrals. IMO his worst neutral is DL64, because he can't use the platforms very well, though he does live pretty long.

for fox specifically, PS is the boss.

 

[RaynEX]

Sveet: Ps is good for the Fox or for the Marth in your opinion? Unknown and I both agree that Dreamland is probably Fox's best neutral against Marth. You can't really escape his combos on PS because of the lack of a high upper platform. Uairs and stupid CG **** continues for days on PS, even though most of the transformations favour Fox.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

PS is always good for fox, but its a good marth stage too. i think it favors fox slightly more, overall.

Keep this on the down low, but i love when falco's CP me to PS, i think that stage gives adv to marth in the match up.