Competitive Play Predictions

[Smilez]

Disclaimer: If your a casual player don't bother reading this post, let alone posting. Thank you.

Hi everyone. I spent a little while watching game play videos of SSBB, and I got to wondering what the tournament settings would be for this installment of the series? Also what stages would be most suitable for competitive play? Will the Item Switch be turned "Off" completely or would the Smash Ball make the cut?

IMO the randomness of items, and their potential to distract from the core game play(which I find to be the nicest) would prevent them from being included again. I will say that there are a lot of cool items, and I will definitely being using them in the FreeForAll modes.

The Smash Ball is obviously on of the cooler inclusions in SSBB but can it work in a traditional tournament setting? I'm really not sure.

What stages do you feel might be banned from tournament for what ever reason?

I'm just curious to see what other people think...so let me know. Post away.

 

[Xanderous]

Perdictions lol

 

[Smilez]

Perdictions lol

Thank you for your uselessness.

 

[hjihjihjihji]

Perdictions lol

That was the only reason I viewed this thread. lol

 

[Frogla]

Thank you for your uselessness.

It's Predictions, i said for the lolz

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Indeed, WTF is a Perdiction? And why did you put IMO in quotes? It's an abbreviation. Do you put USA in quotes?

 

[scotchtape622]

I think the Smash Ball should be included, I believe that part of Sakuri's balancing is based off of the Final Smashes, characters might be gimped, but have the best FS in the game.

 

[Killa Kaos]

Although I don't have any comments on the stages that may be banned I have reason to believe that the smash ball will not be allowed in most competitive tournaments. Like items it randomly appears and if it happens to spawn in close proximity to one player then it give them an advantage assuming that they are able to break it.

 

[Smilez]

I feel the same way. But I wonder if there are any setting changes that can make the spawn less random.

 

[UltimateShinigami]

I think smash balls will have their time for a while in the competative scene, but then considering what happens with them, they may or may not remain. As for stages, I can really only guess the walk-off stages will be banned

 

[Frogla]

I think you should wait for the game, before making any rulings

 

[BananaNut]

I think that Smash balls will remain in the competitive scene, for a this a few reasons.

1. It takes more skill to open then an Item.

2.It rarely appears anyway.

3.It appears randomly.
Let me explain this in greater detail. Player A (Sonic) Is fighting Player B (Mario). Mario beats sonic to the side of the edge and knocks him off the stage. While sonic is recovering, the smash ball appears. Since Sonic has controlled the minority of the stage, he has less of a chance to get it. And Mario, for controlling the majority of the stage, earned his smash ball.

As for pity FS's: If you are doing that good anyway, You can easily knock it out of your opponent.

 

[BananaNut]

Ignore the double post, it glitched up on me.

 

[FreakyVoiceDude]

I can see most of the stages being banned. Melee all over again, but they'll make due. I imagine there will be a holdout group that insists on allowing the Smash Ball and holding separate tourneys for that. If they fix the dang exploding crates, there might even be some item tourneys out there.

I think the best additions might be the more sensible handicap system based on starting damage, the create a stage option for the ultimate bare platform, and lastly...customizable controls. That seems to be getting so little press lately, but being able to change the controls is a little milestone that will make us wonder how we ever did without it.

Also, uniting the common players through online will improve the average skill level through experience and even just watching through Spectator.

Lastly, and insignificantly, I'm curious what they do with the barely-used tourney mode for smaller groups that don't have a convention hall full of TVs. Pending they don't double the maximum player count before launch, that puts 32 people to a Wii...How is it handled if they all have Wiimotes with control settings? Is there any chance the tourney mode can make things easy for the competitive crowd by eliminating the smaller paperwork? Set up six Wiis with smaller tourneys, each winner comes over for a six person tourney.

 

[Crizthakidd]

heres the thign with smash balls it takes a couple of hits to break it and once you have it you an be smashed out of it and the other player gets it

if thats not skill / needed item idk what is and the brawl tournys will be... weird

 

[GTR!]

i wonder if you can turn that you suck to bad to play brawl competatively smash (aka the pity final smash) can be turned off or not

 

[Hitzel]

It appears randomly.
Let me explain this in greater detail. Player A (Sonic) Is fighting Player B (Mario). Mario beats sonic to the side of the edge and knocks him off the stage. While sonic is recovering, the smash ball appears. Since Sonic has controlled the minority of the stage, he has less of a chance to get it. And Mario, for controlling the majority of the stage, earned his smash ball.

Or, Mario could knock Sonic up, the Smash Ball could spawn in the air, and Sonic will get the Smash Ball that Mario was supposed to earn. I don't like the sounds of that.

No items will be used unless we can control when and where they spawn (not to mention randomly explosive items). Some of this stuff looks interesting, especially the Team Healer, Gooey Bomb, etc., and I think they could be worked into the tourney scene if players have more control over how items work (not randomly). Unfortunately for that idea, it doesn't seem likely that there's going to be item customization that in depth. If there is, I'm all for having items in Brawl. Powerup control is a huge plus to any competitive game.



One thought I was toying around with was the idea of turning up the damage ratio. According to demo reports, characters don't die until higher percentages. If that becomes a problem for whatever reason, the competitive scene could try turning up the damage mod up to 1.1 (or whatever the smallest amount is). A subtle change like that could change competitive play for the better, or it could break the balance of the game. Who knows...

 

[Smilez]

Or, Mario could knock Sonic up, the Smash Ball could spawn in the air, and Sonic will get the Smash Ball that Mario was supposed to earn. I don't like the sounds of that.

I agree that would be one of the down sides of the Smash Ball. Maybe they could have a less random factor to use w/ Smash ball? Such as pulling of a long combo or something of the sort..I don't know.

 

[bluethree]

I think the Smash Ball should be included, I believe that part of Sakuri's balancing is based off of the Final Smashes, characters might be gimped, but have the best FS in the game.

Part of Sakurai's balancing in Melee was based off of items. Pichu and Mewtwo were made for items. That didn't stop items from being banned.

At first there will not be an unofficial set of global rules like there is in Melee. Some tournament organizers will stay with what worked in Melee... no items, no abusable stages, no stages with random occurances that hinder players. The more lenient tournament organizers will try items for a while, banning the obviously overpowered ones.

For the longterm items will be tournament standard for large governing bodies such as MLG if exploding crates and barrels are removed. If not then expect items to be banned in Brawl as well.

As for smash balls, I think it depends on whether or not you can turn off the fact that players can get free final smashes when they're losing. Tournaments would certainly ban something that gives a player advantage just for playing poorly.

 

[Hitzel]

I agree that would be one of the down sides of the Smash Ball. Maybe they could have a less random factor to use w/ Smash ball? Such as pulling of a long combo or something of the sort..I don't know.

Look to FPS's for the answer to that. Make the Smash ball spawn in only one spot, at a set time interval.

Example:

Battlefield -
In 1v1 matches the Smash Ball spawns on the top middle platform of every 60 seconds.
In team matches, the Team Healer spawns on the top middle platform every 60 seconds.

 

[OrlanduEX]

Part of Sakurai's balancing in Melee was based off of items. Pichu and Mewtwo were made for items. That didn't stop items from being banned.

At first there will not be an unofficial set of global rules like there is in Melee. Some tournament organizers will stay with what worked in Melee... no items, no abusable stages, no stages with random occurances that hinder players. The more lenient tournament organizers will try items for a while, banning the obviously overpowered ones.


For the longterm items will be tournament standard for large governing bodies such as MLG if exploding crates and barrels are removed. If not then expect items to be banned in Brawl as well.

As for smash balls, I think it depends on whether or not you can turn off the fact that players can get free final smashes when they're losing. Tournaments would certainly ban something that gives a player advantage just for playing poorly.

First of all, items don't balance the game. High tier characters become more high tier with items in hand and have the mobility and stage control mechanism to get to items before anyone else.
Assuming equal distance for all, who is more likely to get to an item, Mewtwo or Fox? If you think Mewtwo has the mobility to beat Fox to good items, I think you're mistaken.
And why would Mewtwo or Pichu suddenly be able to contend with higher tier characters because of an item? Yea they get some better moves from smashing items, but that doesn't move them up on the tier list suddenly.
Marth won't stop having the disjointed hitboxes, the tipper, insane combo ability, insane edgeguarding and great mobility.
Falco won't suddenly lose short hop laser and pillaring.
But Mewtwo and Pichu would still be generally weak and light among other things, and therefore they'd still suck.

Second, Smash Balls would only be remotely fair if:

A) All characters start with it.
B) It is EARNED by KOing opponents rather than by hitting it after it randomly appears or by getting one for playing poorly.

If you could charge a Smash Ball the way you charge supers in other fighting games like Street Fighter, it would be fair.
If you got one for achieving a particular amount of KOs, it would be fair.
Hitzel's idea above is also good.

However, the fact that it randomly appears is what makes it unfair. It benefits whoever happens to be near to it. And before you make the argument about how you have to beat on it first, it's unpredictable movement messes this up.
It can suddenly fly far away from you while you're hitting it to someone else, who can then break it open with one hit despite the fact that you softened it up.

 

[OrlanduEX]

EDIT: Please disregard this accidental double post....

 

[Baconater]

maybe smash balls on very low? I don't really think you're going to have the same tournaments as melee like many people are assuming. BRAWL IS AN ENTIRELY NEW GAME (at least according to Gimpyfish). If you don't want any chance, then you play on battlefield or final dest with no items, 4 stock, and that's it. That's competitive, but not as much fun. Smash balls are supposed to be fun, chance and risk are fun.

 

[I.T.P]

At the very least in my tournament in israel, I will make a poll for it and work by that

 

[deathborn00]

well in my opinion the stages with the stage hazards will be banned again, however, in a tournement they could just make tournament legal stages with the stage builder which i think is good. there will never be a limit to the tournement legal stages

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I hope for the Smash Ball's inclusion, and a few items in general to be included. With the randomness of the exploding crates and capsules gone, there isn't really a huge randomness factor anymore.

Plus, playing without the smash ball is like playing Marvel vs. Capcom with no Hyper combos...it just seems kinda dumb.

 

[5150]

in my honest opinion i think camping is going to be MUCH more viable. why?

#1 infinite air dodges
#2 infinite grapples
#3 automatic sweetspotting with said grapples AND upb's

those 3 things combined could make for a very campy game. but i hope i'm proven wrong.

 

[bluethree]

snip

I never said items actually did balance the game. I said that Sakurai had balance in mind while making those characters. It even says on Pichu's trophy that it's strategy is to "scamper around and pick up items." I am fully aware that those characters still wouldn't be playable in the competitive scene even with items on.

My point was that smash balls won't be used in tournament play just because Sakurai had them in mind when creating characters as the post that I quoted had stated.

As for your second point, the randomness of items isn't why they are banned, so why would the randomness of a smash ball be the reason that it's banned? I am not stating my opinions on what I think should happen. In fact, I agree that the random spawning of items is reason enough to ban them. I simply wrote my predictions based on the history of the competitive scene. As long as a player gets a free final smash for playing poorly, it will be (rightfully) banned.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

"people being rewarded" for losing is kind of putting it too general. its not like you getting knocked down, then people giving you a gun and holding the other guy down.

you could more directly relate it to a person grabbing a weapon from the enviorment, it limits them in someways (holding an object) and is advantageous in someway (they can hurt you more). but in the same sense.. if you fight it from them, its now your advantage and limitation.

most of the final smashes look easy to avoid, and only look practical in certian situations for a quick single kill. but in the same instance, you cant use your normal B move while having them. which depending on character could be a big disadvantage.

reguardless, they add more differences between characters and would definately change the tiers. i think they would work in competative play.

 

[bluethree]

"people being rewarded" for losing is kind of putting it too general. its not like you getting knocked down, then people giving you a gun and holding the other guy down.

Take out the "holding the other guy down" and it's a pretty fair analogy. You are given a dangerous weapon because you are playing poorly. You may not hit with the weapon and you may even get it taken away but it's still a dangerous weapon. It's pretty safe to say that you are getting an undeserved advantage.

 

[Igneous42]

I'm still really hoping that they add an "obstacles off" setting, because then pretty much every stage would be playable.

As for Items they don't belong in a tournament setting.

 

[PyroRyuken]

in my honest opinion i think camping is going to be MUCH more viable. why?

#1 infinite air dodges
#2 infinite grapples
#3 automatic sweetspotting with said grapples AND upb's

those 3 things combined could make for a very campy game. but i hope i'm proven wrong.

I really hope that your proven wrong, lol. Camping can already be annoying melee but it looks like it might be easier to do so in Brawl.