Competitive newbie looking for help

[KappnJack]

Hi all

Complete newbie to actually learning Smash more in depth and I've played around with a few of the roster, settling on Luigi as one of my favourites. I've looked through quite a bit of the stuff on here where people have given character breakdowns and some combo chains which I've been looking to put into practice. That's been really helpful, so thanks a lot to all.

The biggest thing I've been struggling with is actually getting the kill. Some of the build up combos are getting better and I'm chaining the down throw in nair/upair/dair or whichever fits to get some serious damage in. After that, I don't know whether I'm just not getting my Smashes out quickly enough or what - but I'm losing when I've got the opponent at 100-150% because I just cannot finish the job.

Wondering if there are any lovely folk out there willing to practice with me? Would love to see some of you guys in action and get a better understanding of how to finish a game, as well as improving the combo strings I'm already (sort of) starting to implement.

Thanks!

 

[GreenFlame]

Great to hear you like Luigi :D. If you really do like playing him, you probably won't get bored of him anytime soon.

I can understand the KOing problem; they nerfed Luigi's KO potential in this game. But it sounds like you mean actually landing the kill. That's a problem as well.

Luigi has to wait for the opponent to mess up, and punish them to get KOs. Or just be in the right place at the right time. If you do manage to hit your opponent off stage upwards at about 140% (or something) but not enough to KO, get them with an aerial when they fall back down into your jump range and that should finish them. A few of his kill moves (this is just my personal perspective, so someone correct me or let me know if I've missed anything):
-Fire Jump Punch - very difficult to land, but if you manage to set up for it then this KOs very well

-Green Missile Misfire - again very dificult to land and also entirely up to chance, this one is extremely unreliable, but if you're throwing out Missiles (you probably shouldn't be) and you get a misfire on them then they die VERY early

-Back air - this KOs at higher percents, but KOs earlier off the side blast lines, so it's great for edgeguarding. This can be very useful, so use it when it seems right to

-Luigi Cyclone - not really an actual kill move, only off the top blast line. Basically, send your opponent up towards to top blast line and land this on them up there

-Down air - meteor smashes if you land the hitbox which is sort of hard to do (practice makes perfect with this one), so this is great for edgeguarding and getting an early KO. Otherwise does somewhat weak horizontal knockback, but the weak hitbox still sends them a tiny bit away from the stage

-Forward smash - this must be by far Luigi's most reliable finisher, if you can land it. It comes out very fast, and if you angle it it becomes even MORE powerful. This is a very good move

-Down smash and Up smash - neither of these are as powerful as the Forward smash, but they're still useful (obviously) and obviously great moves, and you should know when to use them

-Back throw - this is quite powerful, especially when used off the edge, so that's the best time to use it. If it doesn't quite KO them, it sets them up to be edgeguarded with any aerial very easily

 

[hey_there]

The most reliable kill move is Up smash imo. It comes out fast, covers a wide area, and has good knock back. Otherwise, a sweet spotted bair is solid and kills reliably. Fresh back throw near the edge, too. If you really just can't get the KO but have racked up lots of percent, up throw is an underrated option. You can follow it up with uair, down B, bair, nair, or bait the air dodge and land an up smash. At around 150% or so I've been able to just kill with a fresh up throw. Forward smash can be a bit trickier to land, but it will kill reliably, especially if you angle it up. Dair spike is easier to land than ever this game, so intercept low recoveries with it.

 

[GreenFlame]

The most reliable kill move is Up smash imo. It comes out fast, covers a wide area, and has good knock back. Otherwise, a sweet spotted bair is solid and kills reliably. Fresh back throw near the edge, too. If you really just can't get the KO but have racked up lots of percent, up throw is an underrated option. You can follow it up with uair, down B, bair, nair, or bait the air dodge and land an up smash. At around 150% or so I've been able to just kill with a fresh up throw. Forward smash can be a bit trickier to land, but it will kill reliably, especially if you angle it up. Dair spike is easier to land than ever this game, so intercept low recoveries with it.

I forgot to mention the Back throw, that is an excellent move off the edge. It can kill surprisingly early when you do it off the edge, and if the character doesn't have much horizontal recovery (like Mega Man for example), they might not be able to recover (especially if you edge-guard).

And yes, Up smash is very useful. Does it make Luigi's head invincible like Mario's Up smash? I haven't tested if it does yet.

 

[Elegant]

Throws are pretty good, Up B out of shield is a pretty good option too if they are super close and you can predict well.

 

[KappnJack]

I forgot to mention the Back throw, that is an excellent move off the edge. It can kill surprisingly early when you do it off the edge, and if the character doesn't have much horizontal recovery (like Mega Man for example), they might not be able to recover (especially if you edge-guard).

And yes, Up smash is very useful. Does it make Luigi's head invincible like Mario's Up smash? I haven't tested if it does yet.

I'm finding all of his throws to be really useful and versatile (especially dThrow and bThrow). Definitely had a few kills with the bThrow on the edge, so you're definitely right there.

I love the power of fSmash but I'm struggling to gauge the proper range or when to use it. Is it always best to try and angle it? Is there a particular angle that works better?

His uSmash has been my most useful tool since I originally posted. Being trying to get that out a lot more, and out of all his Smashs I'm finding that it's the easiest and quickest to get out.

All of this advice has been super, super helpful though. So thanks very much!

I just cannot wait to get a GCC in my hands instead of having to use the Circle Pad Pro. Don't get me wrong, I love Smash 3DS - but my goodness, that CPP has been difficult/awkward to use. I've been scared stiff of breaking it too haha! Very jealous of the US Smashers that are getting it at the end of the week! Can't wait!

 

[KappnJack]

Also, is there an effective way to use Green Missile other than for recovery and if you get lucky with the misfire? I feel like it is one of those moves that you can use, but only in an instance where you are very accurately reading your opponent. Having said that, in order to get any decent damage (and if it doesn't misfire) it needs to be charged. And in charging, you're giving it away and therefore asking for the punish.

 

[SonofDoug]

Also, is there an effective way to use Green Missile other than for recovery and if you get lucky with the misfire? I feel like it is one of those moves that you can use, but only in an instance where you are very accurately reading your opponent. Having said that, in order to get any decent damage (and if it doesn't misfire) it needs to be charged. And in charging, you're giving it away and therefore asking for the punish.

That's the problem I have with Missile, it's a read move. It's really good for punishing link or tinks down airs, and also if someone close up tries to roll away. I only really throw it out when I'm at a safe percent and they are under 70, though. I think it's only worth using to try and get and early kill. And cause wildcard.

 

[GreenFlame]

I'm finding all of his throws to be really useful and versatile (especially dThrow and bThrow). Definitely had a few kills with the bThrow on the edge, so you're definitely right there.

I love the power of fSmash but I'm struggling to gauge the proper range or when to use it. Is it always best to try and angle it? Is there a particular angle that works better?

His uSmash has been my most useful tool since I originally posted. Being trying to get that out a lot more, and out of all his Smashs I'm finding that it's the easiest and quickest to get out.

All of this advice has been super, super helpful though. So thanks very much!

I just cannot wait to get a GCC in my hands instead of having to use the Circle Pad Pro. Don't get me wrong, I love Smash 3DS - but my goodness, that CPP has been difficult/awkward to use. I've been scared stiff of breaking it too haha! Very jealous of the US Smashers that are getting it at the end of the week! Can't wait!

Good news: F-smash damage was buffed by 1%

In most cases, it is better to angle the f-smash. If you're doing it on an opponent who's recovering, angle it down so it sends them away from the edge. If you're doing it on someone light, angle it up because that's the best knockback. Basically, angled down goes more horizontally, angled up goes more vertically, and unangled goes diagonal I think.

 

[Knikkey]

So his angled up fsmash still has higher knockback then unangled? I read in the move now does the same amount of damage when angled as unangled but it said nothing about knockback. This is a relief.

I also have a difficult time sealing the deal, especially because the ceilings are so high on a lot of these stages, making his Usmash and FJP tougher to kill with. I once hit a Ganon with FJP when he was at ~90% and he didn't die -_- I find myself getting kills with off stage bair and changing my style from 'rush you down and combo you' to 'Imma play passive and try and bait a roll'. His FJP and angled Fsmash have such a short range that I have a hard time finding moments to use them other than punishing a roll or some other move. This of course gets difficult when facing someone like Toon Link, in which case I just try my hardest to throw them off stage and bair to prevent them from coming back.

There's also the dthrow > FJP. I'm still bad at it but practicing it can reap great rewards.

 

[GreenFlame]

So his angled up fsmash still has higher knockback then unangled? I read in the move now does the same amount of damage when angled as unangled but it said nothing about knockback. This is a relief.

I also have a difficult time sealing the deal, especially because the ceilings are so high on a lot of these stages, making his Usmash and FJP tougher to kill with. I once hit a Ganon with FJP when he was at ~90% and he didn't die -_- I find myself getting kills with off stage bair and changing my style from 'rush you down and combo you' to 'Imma play passive and try and bait a roll'. His FJP and angled Fsmash have such a short range that I have a hard time finding moments to use them other than punishing a roll or some other move. This of course gets difficult when facing someone like Toon Link, in which case I just try my hardest to throw them off stage and bair to prevent them from coming back.

There's also the dthrow > FJP. I'm still bad at it but practicing it can reap great rewards.

A lot of people try and get the FJP from the side after a d-throw. What I find works very well is if once you d-throw you jump and move slightly forward and hit them from directly underneath. See if you can land it easier by aiming to hit them from below .

 

[Knikkey]

A lot of people try and get the FJP from the side after a d-throw. What I find works very well is if once you d-throw you jump and move slightly forward and hit them from directly underneath. See if you can land it easier by aiming to hit them from below .

That does make it a lot easier. Thanks!

 

[KappnJack]

That's the problem I have with Missile, it's a read move. It's really good for punishing link or tinks down airs, and also if someone close up tries to roll away. I only really throw it out when I'm at a safe percent and they are under 70, though. I think it's only worth using to try and get and early kill. And cause wildcard.

Absolutely. Having played around a bit more though I've found I could start incorporating it into my play as the game went on, especially against more predictable opponents. But I'll very rarely charge it, a simple tap of special is all I use. If it doesn't work the first time, I tend to leave it at that unless I know I can use it safely to punish like Link and Tink's dAir like you mentioned. As you said, when you are at safe percentages it is also worth a gamble if you were to get the misfire.

Really enjoying learning this character!

 

[KappnJack]

Good news: F-smash damage was buffed by 1%

In most cases, it is better to angle the f-smash. If you're doing it on an opponent who's recovering, angle it down so it sends them away from the edge. If you're doing it on someone light, angle it up because that's the best knockback. Basically, angled down goes more horizontally, angled up goes more vertically, and unangled goes diagonal I think.

That is good news haha! All hail 1.0.4! Ah right, so the up angle on the fSmash is a great against light characters especially? For the heavier characters (Bowser for example *shudder*) Would you say the down angle is better?

 

[hey_there]

That is good news haha! All hail 1.0.4! Ah right, so the up angle on the fSmash is a great against light characters especially? For the heavier characters (Bowser for example *shudder*) Would you say the down angle is better?

If he's closer to the edge then angled down is better, but if he's not really close to the edge then angled up is better.

 

[KappnJack]

I'd also love your opinion on Luigi's match up with Shulk. With the amount of range that Shulk has, what would you guys suggest is the most effective way to take him on. The Shulks I come up against seem to ruin me.

 

[DrewMoney]

I'll practice with you!! Add me

 

[GreenFlame]

I just thought of something as well. With the removal of vertical Vectoring in 1.0.4, Luigi's attacks that send people upwards, including his up angled forward-smash, have been indirectly buffed. Looks like Luigi may be able to KO better now :D.