Community Metroid DS Tournament - Forum Pride and Playtesting

[Aftermath]

I'll most likely be gone for family portraits. I was really needing to get it done early yesterday, so like, it might be around 6 PM or so. I'll get on AIM then though. You guys have failed me.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

...
this is ********.
i was out until like 11:30 last night, i was on around 8:30 but didn't have aim access. mmaster told me he talked to you last night and told you what time to be on today.

but what's even more stupid, is that he's away and his partner never showed up.

I can understand why you haven't shown up, but unless you contacted them i can't understand why mmaster and tocom(his partner) haven't showed up. When are you getting home? If you see this get on AIM pronto, i'll see if we can wait for you. We can stay up and wait if we have to, if you left at like 4: PST maybe you'll be back by 8 PST, which is like 11 here? i hope you can get on,we HAVE to get this done, even if its at like 2 am EST. I'll try to contact MMaster and ask him to stay up.

I think after this i'm not gonna try any online tourneys again, because its just too confusing.

edit: here's the deal. aparently mmaster said to be on at 8 and then logged off b4 he got a response. >.< so...he was late because of easter pix with a little sister, and we're not sure about tocom. but we'll be waiting up for you, so hopefully you'll be back before midnight (EST).

 

[Aftermath]

Yeah, he didn't say anything to me while I was at the computer yesterday. I just got back now, so it's like 10:30 your time, and you're not on, so like, yeah. I'm talking to mmaster and he's probably going to john it up. I'll edit later if he does.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

kay, team rocket has won the first match! BUt the second match is null because tocom didn'tset it on team capture >.< but we did win that one!...aftermath is setting up the vid recording equipment for the scond match.

man, i got some schweet headshots in that match.

and aftermath killed me >.<

 

[Aftermath]

pff, team kills build character.

Yeah, I tried doing a quick and easy recording method (having a friend hold it), and the quality came out pretty badly. But anyway, I might reocrd the last match in full and put it up, just to show the framerate I was getting, and how ridiculous some of the headshots were that it gave me.

But yeah, I kept killing ChRed because he was getting shock coiled, so I had trouble telling who was red and green sometimes, especially the one on the last match. But yeah, we went 2-1.

So like, next time I'll plan better for recording, I had like just gotten back from somewhere when we were playing, so I didn't want to set it up really. And yeah, w00t for only getting killed once out of the four matches, and for having the flag for twelve or thirteen minutes, and then not reseting our flag when I had the chance, so not being able to return it, toooo good.

Yeah, now for complaints. I was getting some weird lag from Tocom and company. Like, sometimes I would have no lag whatsoever and what looked like a headshot was a headshot, and other times I would miss entirely and it would kill, but mostly I would shoot them in the face and nothing happened. So like, if MLG ever does incorporate this, which they should, since it gets pretty intense, it should only be held over local multiplayer.

Hopefully we'll be able to get the next match finished more quickly than we did this one.

ChRed, nice teamwork on your part, like, everytime I was like getting double teamed, you'd run over and drag one off or kill them. I think or Sylux/Trace team is like god tier. I think our practicing on not falling off really helped, MMaster fell off like 5 times and we didn't have a single SD. But yeah, like, despite Tocom having nearly 6,000 headshots and 400 games (300 local, suspicious), I'd say I'm way better at headshotting than him, he would just stand still at certain points and most of his shots were way off.

 

[M3D]

Hey guys... since you won you're playing me and my teammate next. I haven't talked to him yet but what times would be good for you guys this week???

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

yeah, M3D might want to look into the second two matches.

first match, team capture on harvester. problem. the way health is placed, if one team gets ahead, all they have to do is take the ocolith, and run around grabing health. unless there is some godly teamwork going on, its easy to grab the two med health and twp large health packs that are all in the center area.

this is exactly what happened. they got ahead, 2 to one, and you could not kill the guy with the octolith, he'd just keep picking up health

the third game, was just BS. there are 4 med health packs in a very small area, and they're all very easy to get. if you were dying, all you had to do was morph and run away for health. and with affinity only, the two syluxes (me and mmaster i think) had like no way to die. The only reason we won was because aftermath snagged a couple headshot kills. it was a MAJORLY crappy battle. 10 minutes of shooting, getting health, shooting some more, getting health, while constantly running everywhere. The only unusual or new thing that happened was aftermath shooting me in the head. i welcomed it, because my fingers were tired and i zoomed around in free mode for a bit.

but our team was majorly kick ***. glad it all finally worked out in the end.

there wasa couple times i did like in the third(fourth really) match where you were shooting at the sylux and jumping on a narrow walj way, and every time you jumped i shot a missle under you at the guy.

i have to say though, the one thing you should never play is sylux versus sylux with affinity weapons. neither of you gain any health. or lose any.

team rocket and smashboards ftw!!

 

[Aftermath]

Yeah, that was a bit monotonous on Incubation Vault.

ChRed, get on AIM, I want to talk strategies, colors and the like.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Hey guys... since you won you're playing me and my teammate next. I haven't talked to him yet but what times would be good for you guys this week???

actually, today would be good, or monday, but today's easter sunday so i'm sure at least one of you will be busy, tomorrow maybe is too soon. tuesday and wednesday i can't do, but thursday or friday work for me also.

 

[M3D]

Yeah, I've already decided that Incubation Vault won't be used against for 2v2 matches. It's all about alt-form whoring and running around grabbing health. Not a very good stage at all, but you know, we're all learning. At the beginning of Halo 1 tournaments they used to play CTF Boarding Action... hehehe... so you know, you gotta make some mistakes before you settle on some good gametypes.

As for Capture on Harvester, I think it's still a solid gametype overall. Good teamwork can bring down the O carrier regardless of him running to health packs. The large energy orbs are on top, outside and the medium ones are inside down on the bottom. So you have to take a circuit to contrtol all of them. Good teamwork can bring him down if you focus fire, especially since he can't change to alt form and run. Any time he gets away its really your own fault.

Next round gametypes are better by far. Just practice up and let's get our match going sometime this week. I'm gonna be in NY all weekend for MLG, so we gotta get this done earlier in the week. Catch me on AIM or something to get it scheduled.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

well, i just found out we played the capture game wrong. reset was supposed to be off, it was on. that changes the way the game is played. If reset is off, its alot easier because you grab your octolith, and then you go back to your base and then you camp until your teammate realizes he can come back. If reset is on, then your opponent might be nearest to your base, so he'll grab the octolith before your teammate can get there.

doesn't matter, cuz we won 2 legit matches anyways, but that bugs me.

and i don't know what your aim sn is.

edit2: nm, got it from tocom

and i learned what reset mode really means.
as in, when the octolith is dropped it gets reset, rather than the octolith resets when you pick up your own octolith. oops.

 

[Aftermath]

Yeah, the auto reset was off, which I forgot and missed picking ours up once.

Yeah, we have to get it done by Wednesday. Wednesday is my birthday, so I'll be doing stuff, and then I'm leaving for the weekend to skypal, so can't do much there.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

kay, ummm, tomorrow then? M3D, i've got you and you're partner on my aim buddies list, but you've been away all day.

I might be able to do it around 6:30 ish on tuesday.

crunch so your spring break just started?

mine ends after tomorrow.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

bump.

in case there's any discrepencies, tonights match is at 12 am EST.

M3D and his partner will be on aim then, howeveri cannot acess aim then, just i'll be connected to MPH
aftermath, i've been trying to reach you on aim, but haven't been on, you've been idle, so contact me when you can.

We need to get some strat talk done, i've got some ideas.

 

[Aftermath]

w00t, good games M3D. My favorite part had to be your comment at the end "Well, I'd love to see any complaints you guys had with the match." So yeah, I'll do that.

My complaint is about the imbalance of Nodes. First of all, I went in thinking that the Weavel would be a big pain while trying to get the Node. However, M3D's Sylux strat, and probably a similar one from Spire, Samus, Noxus, or Kanden is better proof of why Nodes will not work.

When capturing a node, you're limited to staying in a very small circle, I think even when I jumped the progress bar either froze or reset. So what effect does that have on gameplay? Sylux can do the OHKO super-easy (and I was wondering why ChRed was not following M3D's strategy, completely stopped Node takeovers), and if the opponent escapes, they would have left the circle and need to start the progress all over. The same problem arises with the other alt-formers I named. So that means that something like 5 out of 7 of the hunters are broken in Nodes solely because of their alt form, and when you have online lag (or at least what i've experienced), there's really no way to know if you've hit the opponent's alt form since they usuallygo fairly quickly and change directions sporadically, possibly making what you see on your screen completely different from where they really are.

The other thing was that it was Ice Hive. I'm convince that the level can't have the best Node placement, each are in tiny halls, two are fairly close, allowing total control of both of those. The tiny hallways I'd say is worse, mostly because of the Sylux super easy ohko in the cramped circle compounded by the hallway. the two nodes you guys had the entire match were those two which were no more than a second away from one another. And considering that it takes about five seconds to acquire the Node, it was more than enough time for Sylux to get there and exploit the level.

But yeah, it's not really that we won or lost, I've repeatedly complained about the Nodes before, and your playtesting, and this just confirms it. If you're willing to ban Trace and snipers from Defender on the off-chance that someone's good enough and lag-free enough to flawlessly hit people as they're spawning, I don't see why Nodes, with 5 hunters with a strat far more imbalanced and recquiring far less technical skill and reflexes, is kept as a game type, especially when paired with a level that only compounds all of its faults.

So yeah M3D, I'd love to hear what you think of the gametype and how it's balanced, or if it doesn't need to be, why it's justified as a tournament match.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

sorry for the triple post (i r nub) but this needs apost of its own.

nodes on ice hive? way out.

here's why.

its cumulative. so lets so one team gets two nodes first. okay, now they're gaining points more rapidly than the opponent. they can't lose now. because it will take a bit of time for them to die. thats more points. then while the oppo nent is capturing, but you're still gaining points. normally, you;d say, okay the opponent is now going to capture and the situation will be reversed. but that doesn't happen. instead, your teammate comes in and attacks. now the capture halts. meanwhile, at your other node the team mate is capturing. but when you respawn, you attack them. they never get a chance to capture because it takes too long. there is only one node that you can't get to from the spawning ground to the node in the time it takes to capture, and your team mate can defend that.

the game becomes a matter of who gets there first.

its also easy for some characters to obliterate others. this is because when you're fighting in the node, its too confined for first person, so you switch to alt. weaval, and sylux, as i just learned the hard way, are particularly good at this. why? because when you're stuck in a confined space, weaval can easily hit you with fast with the half turret hitting you constantly since you can't dodge in close quaters, and the other half slices you easily. you die fast. the only way to handle it is get out of the node an open fire, but then you lose all capture time.

sylux. he can lay two bombs on one side of the node, and then if you try to get in, he just goes behind you and hits you with the tribomb attack for 180 damage. unavoidable in a node.


conversely, aftermath was screwed because his triskelion shoots out of the node if you miss. sylux versus trace in a node? trace is screwed.
i'm not johning. we lost the first match fair and square. infamousX pretty much owned all of us. aftermath snagged two kills, m3d had one, i had zero, and iX had 11. he's incredible.

but the second match was just stupid.

i'm starting to think that there's too much lopsidedness in this game. depending on what mode/area you play in, there's usually like 2 characters that get destroyed and some others that excel rediculously.

ssbm is actually a much more balanced game, because on the agreed stages,if you're playing your own character, it doesn't matter who you play as, just how good you are. just ask chudat, he'll tell you ICs can **** a fox.

its also hard to play teams in something like this with out voIP b/c if your partners getting double teamed, you can't tell. he can't say i'm getting beat up in the main hallway, you have to go looking for him. he can't say the guy with the octolith is in so and so location, head him off. you'll go off in completely wrong direction because you can't talk.

I'm never entering a 2v2 tourney again. If you have any more, make them 1v1. that way there's no communication problems like this.

Its also less of a hassle in terms of starting the game and working with schedules.

the optimum tourney would be
1v1
battle only
the most neutral few stages, like in SSBM, but it'll be hard to come up with these.

i know it'll take a long time, but i'm sure we'll get things sorted out eventually.

edit: aftermath, i did start using that strat, but it only worked at the end when we actually had nodes. m3d had quicker reflexes than i did, so he got to the first node first and OHKOed me. i started killing infamous x alot, but like i said, he can attack me before i can actually capture it since the distance from the spawing center to two of the nodes is nil.

in addition, weavles affinity weapon is broken. if he fires in the center of a node, it explodes into the whole thing so it kills really quickly. makes it impossible to capture because it takes so long to capture.

health, as i've said before, is also ridiculous in this game. if you get ahead, its so easy to keep going alt and snagging health.

in the first match, if you weren't good at fast motion head shots, you lost. i can't snag head shots easily in motion, and that was all you could do on that stage. most of the time if you got hit you could either circle to one of the blue health packs on the circle or jump into the middle and grab that pack. died like 1 time from a normal kill, the rest were head shots. infamousx excelled there because he could get quick head shots. for close game people like me, you couldn't play, m3d, all you did was snipe, and then when someone got close you morphed and ran away. this is why i'm absolutely sick of this game, and would quit now if i wasn't teamed with aftermath and didn't want to dissapoint him. sorry but thats how I feel. And i don't want to hear anyone saying i'm complaining cuz i lost. i complained about the second game we won(in the first match). there are alot of matches i don't like online that i win. the ones i lose, i usually play the same person and win. so i don't complain because i lose, but because i didn't have any fun playing.

 

[M3D]

I think the #1 problem here, and it's something I expressed to Aftermath last night on AIM, is that you guys seem to think of the nodes as the main objective in the Nodes gametype, which they aren't. Your main objective is still killing the opponents. Nodes isn't about running up and grabbing a node, it's about killing both the opposing players and then establishing control over the nodes to gain points and then going back to killing the opposing players. But shooting your opponents is still the #1 goal you're shooting for, regardless of what earns you points to win.

This is part of what seperates good Halo players from mediocre ones on the Pro tour. Good players don't even pick up the Oddball or jump into the Hill on objective gametypes until their team has killed the opposing players and established control. During our match you guys would run up to an empty node and stand there to capture it when instead you should have been hunting us down and killing us and THEN grabbing node time. You can even attempt to grab a node as a duo and abandon it as soon as you come under fire to take care of the real work.

I've played against teams that were able to trade control with infamous and I on that stage. There are strategies and there are counter strategies, but you live for too long for a room with 3-4 entrances to be completely controlable. In fact, the one node at the end of the Ice Bridge isn't even controlable and there's only ONE approach. Sylux does have a relatively easy way to kill people who foolishly stand in the Node almost motionless, but Sylux has his weaknesses too. His alt form is extremely weak against Kanden, Samus and Weavel and if you play your strats right he's at a pretty severe disadvantage when trying to get kills and not just carry an objective. Basically what I'm saying is, these things aren't broken... you guys just didn't play the stage properly and got smoked for it. It is possible to trade control on this stage and this gametype even against the strategies that infamous and I ran. I've seen it done, and we've had it done to us. In fact, we both died at one point and you guys captured the two nodes that we like to hold down and we reversed control. You guys saw it done. The game has nothing to do with who gets there first. It has to do with who kills the best and can best maintain control of the stage by generating the most kills.

As for this quote: "if you weren't good at fast motion head shots, you lost. i can't snag head shots easily in motion, and that was all you could do on that stage. "


That's like saying "If you're not good with the pistol in Halo 1, you lost. I can't fire well in duels and that's all you can do on that stage." In case you haven't figured it out yet, this game is like 70% sniping, 25% alt form attacking and 5% everything else. It takes forever to kill people up close and attempting to do so most of the time gets you destroyed by a sniper or someone who sneaks up behind you, especially with the high amount of energy balls on these stages (and I agree there is too much health on these stages for sure!). You need to find ways to get kills quickly and to avoid prolonged confrontations in biped form. That's how you win in MPH. There's nothing wrong with the close range stuff being less powerful, just like there's nothing wrong with the SMG sucking in Halo 2. Based on the games system for attacking and defending, you need to find the best method with which to get kills and control the stage and use them. Maybe you hate the way the game balances and you feel like close range combat should be more important, but that doesn't make the game imbalance. It just means the balance is someplace you haven't looked yet.

In fact, one of the things that saves this game is speed with which the weapons respawn. Everyone can get the sniper in most games if they want to because it spawns so frequently. Everyone can get everything in fact, because the weapons spawn so frequently. As for the energy orbs, that situation might be resolved by making High Damage the default setting, thus making them less effective overall, but there really are a lot of them. For the time being, the best thing you can do, which is what I did for our team... is to control them like they're powerups. Just like controlling the double damage spawn, or the Oversheild in Halo, you just have to be aware of when they spawn and where they're at and control that space as a team.

As for using VoIP to communicate... you might want to think of alternative ways to communicate with your partner during matches. Just because you're playing your DS doesn't mean its the only method of communication you have at your disposal in the information age. There's XBox Live, Skype, MSN voice/video chat and the good old fashioned telephone that you can rely on if you need to call positions out with your partner. You can exceed the limitations of the hardware with other assets you have available.

Aftermath... I like chatting with you and you're a real smart dude, but don't assume just because you think a certain way or because your team lost/dominated that my playtesting is whack and your complaints are verified. It's possible that you're not the most brilliant FPS player or game strategist ever. It's also possible that there are ideas and concepts about competitive FPS play that are totally beyond you because you've never competed at a high level in one. I've heard all sorts of the same or similar complaints from Halo n00bs about the pistol, the Battle Rifle and various stages and gametypes. Just think about it.


I've gotta run but I'll address an FFA/1v1 tournament later.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

That's like saying "If you're not good with the pistol in Halo 1, you lost. I can't fire well in duels and that's all you can do on that stage."

sniper rifle, grenade leads coupled with rocket launcher, shotgun, (halo 2-energy sword, different weapon combos) there's a variety of things you can do. theres also a lot of stuff you can do involving weapon swwitches, such as rapid melees, quick grenade tosses, etc. you can get close or you can run away for ranged attacks.

in vdo gateway, it was literally impossible to get close to the person firing at you, they just have to circle in the opposite direction.

As for using VoIP to communicate... you might want to think of alternative ways to communicate with your partner during matches. Just because you're playing your DS doesn't mean its the only method of communication you have at your disposal in the information age. There's XBox Live, Skype, MSN voice/video chat and the good old fashioned telephone that you can rely on if you need to call positions out with your partner. You can exceed the limitations of the hardware with other assets you have available.

my partner lives in oregon, and i live in maryland. no long distance please, and i don't have a cell.

it was midnight where i am, and since i'm still in my parents house and not at college my options were fairly limited. my mom didn't know i was playing, i would've been killed othewise. not all of us are out of highschool and completely in control, thank you.

and for aim, you think i'm going to run into a corner and type for a second? that's an invitation for death. it only works in large stages with lots of rooms, not big open stages where the enemy says, oh lookee he's standing still! Maybe i should leave him alone!!!!! Rather than killing him right now!

and the game revolves about one weapon? the point of MPH is diversity. different characters have so many different ability's, when they all have to resort to one weapon the game seems fairly limited. that's why a balance is better in close range because then you have different people using different attacks and the game gets interesting. when you spendin ten minutes snagging helth and jumping around the same circular area in zoomed in, the game gets real old real fast. i think i'd rather play the game for fun and actually get entertainment out of it, rather than getting bored doing the same thing every game.

one more thing. your goal wasn't to kill us first in the nodes. you just headed straight for the nodes, both of you. and like i said, it doesn't matter if you kill the opponents first because it takes me about 6 seconds to get from the spawn grounds to the second node and about 3 seconds to the first, whereas it takes 10 seconds to capture.

 

[Aftermath]

Yeah, the long distance is kinda weird, I can understand him not being at a computer, I got in trouble for being on that late anyway. But yeah, ChRed, the game doesn't have to be about diversity, there are competitive games that completely revolve around only a specific strat, such as snaking in mario kart, which also limits a lot of character diversity, and more importantly, kart diversity.

And yeah, the sentence "I'd rather play for fun than compete" is said a lot about competitive games. I've heard it from speed running mario games.


But yeah M3D, I agree with ChRed a bit. At one point I thought about trying to kill you both, for the one that is near the broken bridge. I got a lucky kill on infamous and then you died somehow I think, or just left after a little bit. But when the progress bar was at about 1/3 of the way, infamous had already spawned and made it back to me with pickups, meaning that he went out of his way to get extra items instead of just rushing back tho the Node. I'm not saying that's not a good strat or excuse, because obviously you guys did other stuff, but just saying to kill people first and then get the stuff doesn't work when it's on such a small level, you still have to deal with someone for at least the last half of the progress.

But that's not really that important, since it's possible if you're good enough at the game, so if that worked as it should there would be no problem with the mode. The thing that kept getting me, even when I was talking to you, is how what I called broken, but is just the only strategies/characters that work, comes down to luck. You would use an example of samus bouncing on her bombs. Whether you hit her or she hits you all comes down to little skill and a lot of luck from lag and whoever can spam the most.

But yeah, I'll accept that I don't know anything about playing competitively, but like, I still don't see, when you yourself say that something comes down to luck, how it's still a good show of skill and the better players will move on. And sorry if I took anything you said too literally or whatever, but like, I guess I'll just never get it until I do better.

 

[Stopsign]

Just to let you know. I have set up a site for Competitive online Metroid Prime Hunters play, much like Smash World Forums itself. So if you guys would like to come join my site just PM me. I hope we can get a competitive community just like here with Super Smash Bros.

 

[NJzFinest]

sounds awesome M3D, first, i need to actually get good at this game
*just got it*

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

WTF? m3d, get your act together. my inbox says i recieved the match info on Apr 26, but your deadline is Fri, Apr 21st. whens the deadline

 

[M3D]

The real deadline was supposed to be Monday, May 1st... your email was the only one with a problem. Sorry about that. Good luck in your match.

 

[SonicZeroX]

M3D you lost?

Smashboards is defeated...

 

[SonicZeroX]

Sorry to bump this, but who ended up winning anyways?

It's been silence for the past month...

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

i dunno, i had APs and forgot about this(in addition to misplacing my DS). sorry Aftermath ;(

 

[SetsumA]

Yeah so like, im from louisiana, and im in north carolina for vacation, does anyone live in jacksonvill? and if so would you want to meet somewhere and play some smash? i dont have a controller cause i thought i would take a break from smash but uhh i really wanna play so if someone could direct me to a better thread that i could find someone to play with or if one of you is from jacksonvill hit me up.

 

[NJzFinest]

^ lmao, want an irrelevant post xD


SetsumA, this may be smashboards, but this specific thread isn't for Super Smash Brothers. I think you need to take a look a the Regional Zones forum and find people in your area. I mean, sure, you can spend days looking through random threads, trying to find people in your area...or you can go to Regional Zones and find out in 1 minute or so.


Back on topic, I should play this again. Kinda got bored of owning online <_< I think my friend put my rank back down to 3 stars from 5....I should get it back from her -_-

 

[Link-NY]

hmmm this seemed like fun >_> i havent played this game in a long minute <_< i hope noone here uses any of those gay faggit *** glitches? =p

 

[NJzFinest]

lol, I hate people who use glitches, but I never seem to lose to them. It's pretty obvious to see if someone is attempting a glitch, and since some of them require the loss of damage, just kill them first. Also using a glitch successfully doesn't insure victory at all >.>

 

[Link-NY]

lol, I hate people who use glitches, but I never seem to lose to them. It's pretty obvious to see if someone is attempting a glitch, and since some of them require the loss of damage, just kill them first. Also using a glitch successfully doesn't insure victory at all >.>

sure it does =x just sink inside the walls and snipe away. Just like in combat hall. Not even splash dmg reaches them >.>