Common Custom Special Presets Survey

[Zareidriel]

I don't either, I think it's terrible.

 

[The_Cardinal]

If the deadline hasn't already passed, would it possible to add 3212 as a Robin set? Personally it's my favorite one as speed thunder allows for long/mid range pressure and fills the a similar spacing tool role as regular arcfire. Arcfire+ is amazing for punishing landings in this set and does a good amount of shield pressure.

I'm only a Robin secondary so I'll live if you guys don't want to put that set up there, but I'd love to see it happen.

Everything you mentioned that Arcfire+ can do can can already be done with default thunder, speed thunder, and default arcfire. In my opinion, default arcfire would serve you better since you already have speed thunder to cover the long/mid range. That way you get access to both more pressure and a combo tool that can lead to a ko, which Arcfire+ does not offer you.

 

[Infinite901]

Am I the only one that thinks Thunder+ is gonna get banned?

EDIT: This was dumb.

 

[Raziek]

Yes.

I think it's actually the worst of the 3 Thunder variants.

There are about tons of other customs that would get banned before Thunder+, and Robin doesn't have any of them.

 

[Goesasu]

robin secondary here.
I love gliding elwind, it allows me to come back to stage faster and safer, it also snaps to the edge easier. IMO better than default unless you r really deep.

Also i prefer fire wall over default for defensive plays. Paired with distant nosferatu gives me total control of my sorrounding.

Then, speed thunder to increase presure. Opponent go like wtf i cant get near and get punished for being far away. Just beatiful.

Sadly this set isnt here u.u

 

[Zareidriel]

Do we have a 1311? That's my favorite alternative. Though sadly I like the defaults more than anything most of the time.

 

[Raziek]

Do we have a 1311? That's my favorite alternative. Though sadly I like the defaults more than anything most of the time.

That is on the EVO set list, yes.

 

[Froggy]

I'm looking at Robin's customs and I have to thik the constructos of these sets simply messed it up.

Why was Gotea only included in a single cusotm set? It's my favorite of the down alternates. I generally find Nosferatu to be nearly useless, because while haviing a command grab that can be sued in the air is real cool, that heals and does decent damage, the puny hitbox makes it unlikely to hit a skilled-aware opponent outside of rare situations. The distant nosferatu is even more useless because the hitbox exists at a range which is impractical for regular combat, minus a very few camping characters no one is going to stand at that range for you to hit them, the best you can hope is to catch them while they're approaching (which they're likely to fall for only once or twice) to which point its no big deal as the damage on it is minimal (it's properites are worse and as such should have done more damage than Nosferatu, not less)

I suspecct the major argument against Gotea is that it has a longer start up, which while true isn't a big deal if the move is used otimally. It has a vortex effect giving it a much larger hitbox, but that vortex effect allows for much great flexibility when catching opponents as well, for example it is very potent as an anti-air catchig opponents coming at you from a 315 or steeper angle and it's also great used in place of an areal attack, I'm sure some of you us use Nosferatu in the same way but because of the vortex effect not only can Gotea be used at furthur distance form the opponent but EARLIER before landing next to the opponent while in the air as well. Yes, the healing effect is lost and the increase in damage does not cover the difference, but I'd drop that for a move that is useful without me actually straining to hit the opponent with it so that I can justify it's existnace in my head, any day of the week.

edit: This Raziek guy is an idiot, "I don't think many of the Nos/Elwind customs are important" he has no business authoring this thread.

 

[Raziek]

edit: This Raziek guy is an idiot, "I don't think many of the Nos/Elwind customs are important" he has no business authoring this thread.

If you think you're hot ****, I'm down to 5-0 you.

First to 5, I'm free all day.

 

[Froggy]

If you think you're hot ****, I'm down to 5-0 you.

First to 5, I'm free all day.

In a Robin ditto? Not my best match up but I'm down. It'd have to be on 3ds though.

None of which detracts from my original point that you all (you Raziek in particular being a big part of the problem) messed up the custom sets. Gotea is a big deal.

 

[Raziek]

In a Robin ditto? Not my best match up but I'm down. It'd have to be on 3ds though.

Play whatever character you want, but you'll earn more credibility if you do it with Robin.

Adding you now.

 

[Raziek]

None of which detracts from my original point that you all (you Raziek in particular being a big part of the problem) messed up the custom sets. Gotea is a big deal.

I'd be more inclined to believe you if any of the other skilled Robin players agreed with you. I've given it a lot of testing, and save for a small handful of matchups where the character is too fast to land default Nos reliably, I think it's simply not worth using.

And even in the aforementioned case, that is why 3113 is on the set list.

 

[Froggy]

Play whatever character you want, but you'll earn more credibility if you do it with Robin.

Adding you now.

You know what I'll probably rotate on you just to embarass you, your attitude is annoying.

I'd be more inclined to believe you if any of the other skilled Robin players agreed with you. I've given it a lot of testing, and save for a small handful of matchups where the character is too fast to land default Nos reliably, I think it's simply not worth using.

And even in the aforementioned case, that is why 3113 is on the set list.

I haven't read through the entire thread but it alfway through the first page there are 2 robin players already stating their preferane for Gotea, that would be Hong and Delta Fist, I really hope you weren't the guy who relayed the custom sets to Amphros, it's sorta looking like you subverted what the community wanted for your own indivual preference.

Edit: Tattles and Ble Thunder also stating they like Gotea. I have to state this agian bro, you are an idiot.

 

[Raziek]

#1: You should probably read the entire thread then. Delta to my knowledge no longer prefers Goetia, and Hong no longer plays this game. In particular, we all discussed including a Goetia set on page 2, which is why 3113 is on there.

#2: Room is up. I'm giving you attitude because you had the gall to call me an idiot, so you can put your money where your mouth is. If you hadn't done that, I would've just given the straight answers, but here we are.

 

[Froggy]

#1: You should probably read the entire thread then. Delta to my knowledge no longer prefers Goetia, and Hong no longer plays this game. In particular, we all discussed including a Goetia set on page 2, which is why 3113 is on there.

#2: Room is up. I'm giving you attitude because you had the gall to call me an idiot, so you can put your money where your mouth is. If you hadn't done that, I would've just given the straight answers, but here we are.

Very well I will read the entire thread and see what's up. I full expect to see you insisting that Gotea shouldn't be used though.

And I'm at work right now and I don't have my 3ds. When I get home and I have my game I will gladly kick your ass. Wait until then.

 

[The_Cardinal]

You know what I'll probably rotate on you just to embarass you, your attitude is annoying.



I haven't read through the entire thread but it alfway through the first page there are 2 robin players already stating their preferane for Gotea, that would be Hong and Delta Fist, I really hope you weren't the guy who relayed the custom sets to Amphros, it's sorta looking like you subverted what the community wanted for your own indivual preference.

Edit: Tattles and Ble Thunder also stating they like Gotea. I have to state this agian bro, you are an idiot.

While I don't really know if your matches with Raziek will actually resolve anything, I really wished you read the whole thread (it's not even long, it's only 3 pages long) before posting a rather incendiary comment. If you had, and perhaps taken a quick look around the Robin threads, you would have known that Raziek is doing anything BUT subvert the community. On the contrary he has done a lot for it and is continuing to do so. And while his posts can come across as rather strong and blunt at times, it comes from a confident and credible background and everyone knows that and no one takes it the wrong way.

Furthermore, it's not as if he's not open to listening to anyone. I know because I was the one who suggested a discussion on Goetia back when Goetia wasn't on any of the custom sets. And guess what? After a civil discussion with everyone, including Raziek, we decided to put one in. Hell, he was the one who suggested 3113 and the ones participating in the discussion all agreed that set made sense. It's also not as if these sets are set in stone forever. Only till EVO which is not even that far from now. Who's to say we can't have discussions in the future to change these sets after EVO?

So please, watch the language. It will get us nowhere, you least of all.

 

[Froggy]

While I don't really know if your matches with Raziek will actually resolve anything, I really wished you read the whole thread (it's not even long, it's only 3 pages long) before posting a rather incendiary comment. If you had, and perhaps taken a quick look around the Robin threads, you would have known that Raziek is doing anything BUT subvert the community. On the contrary he has done a lot for it and is continuing to do so. And while his posts can come across as rather strong and blunt at times, it comes from a confident and credible background and everyone knows that and no one takes it the wrong way.

Furthermore, it's not as if he's not open to listening to anyone. I know because I was the one who suggested a discussion on Goetia back when Goetia wasn't on any of the custom sets. And guess what? After a civil discussion with everyone, including Raziek, we decided to put one in. Hell, he was the one who suggested 3113 and the ones participating in the discussion all agreed that set made sense. It's also not as if these sets are set in stone forever. Only till EVO which is not even that far from now. Who's to say we can't have discussions in the future to change these sets after EVO?

So please, watch the language. It will get us nowhere, you least of all.

I really think you need to take good look at the thread again. The more you read is the more it becomes clear that Rezeik was actively trying to gut Goteia from the list. If you'd like I can go and copy and paste a bunch of posts where he actively pushing his disdain for the move on users in the thread, and I personally think using his influence as a moderator (coupled with being the author of the thread) in such a manner is disgusting. Its people like him that damage the integrity of the smash community.

And to be clear the point I am stressing is that having Goteia on a single set just isn't enough, Robin being a character whose neutral and side customs serve such radically different purposes; if you love Goteia but don't like the particular customs in that set, then you have 0 options for an alternative. More to the point I'm emphasizing that Goteia deserves at least as much sets as Distant nosferatu does as it is more versatile damaging.

Also if I gave you the impression that I was a rude or disrespectful person then I apologize. That sentiment is directed solely towards Rezeik.

 

[Raziek]

Surely you must be kidding.

I created the thread because I am associates with Amazing Ampharos and I was ASKED TO. I supported the customs endeavor, and moderate this forum, so it only made sense for me to create the thread and get the discussion started.

You are truly delusional, dude. Everyone else was completely cool with the Goetia set we added and nobody said 'we need MORE Goetia sets, remove X set for Y reason', so we moved on with our lives happy with the set we added.

 

[Froggy]

Surely you must be kidding.

I created the thread because I am associates with Amazing Ampharos and I was ASKED TO. I supported the customs endeavor, and moderate this forum, so it only made sense for me to create the thread and get the discussion started.

You are truly delusional, dude. Everyone else was completely cool with the Goetia set we added and nobody said 'we need MORE Goetia sets, remove X set for Y reason', so we moved on with our lives happy with the set we added.

You can go ahead call me stupid, insane, delusional whatever; the fact is you were clearly against Goteia from the beginning and you pushed it on the other users. To save people the time to have to search through the thread for examples I'll just copy and paste

"Goetia just.... doesn't really have many situations where it makes sense to run it over either of the others."
"I personally don't think Goetia or Soaring Elwind have any use in competitive play, but if you were going to slap Goetia on a set I'd probably just stick it with like, Speed Thunder, I guess. (3113)"
"I don't think many of the Nos/Elwind customs are important,"
"I don't think either is worth using at all." (in regards to Goteia)

If you actually take a second to think about this like you have a brain it's pretty obvious that even with Raziek's influence as moderator, author of the thread, and friends with those in the Amphros project, even he can't cut Goteia from the list completely without tremendous push back, so he concede a single set and insists we move on. Just stop giving him the benefit of the doubt and lookat what it is and it's really not hard to see at all.

**** you Raziek.

 

[Infinite901]

@ Froggy Dude, chill the f*** down. Hey, I like Goetia too, I'd like it to be in more sets too (though I'm far from a Robin main) but you're seriously overreacting.

 

[The_Cardinal]

Also if I gave you the impression that I was a rude or disrespectful person then I apologize.

Thank you for saying this. No really. I appreciate it. And don't worry, I never thought you were rude to me in particular. And I have nothing against your views on Goetia. I think it's fine although I myself don't care for the move.

Having said that, I was really only commenting on your language and how you insulted a fellow Smashboard member. Even if what you accuse Raziek is true, how in the world is calling him an idiot and eventually just devolving into saying "F*** you Raziek" any better? We here at the Robin forums pride ourselves in having established a respectful atmosphere where if we disagree with each other, we do it civilly. So I rather not have that ruined here. If you have beef with Raziek, do it in a mature way.

Furthermore, I would like to respectfully challenge your argument that it's people like Raziek that damages the integrity of the smash community.

In regards to the quotes from Raziek on Goetia, I already addressed that in my previous post. Furthermore, I would argue you are reading a bit too much into some of his posts. Part of it, honestly, is just the way Raziek talks and again, people know that already and take no offense.

As I stated before, a quick look around the Robin forums will tell you just how much Raziek has done for this community. First and foremost, he moderates these forums, as stated already. He has compiled much of the frame date on Robin and the bulk of the research into the character, helping to spark discussion on the character when the game was new. He wrote a comprehensive stage guide that even has helpful visuals. He also used his tournament experience to help Zareidriel host the very first Robin thread tournament which was a great community building experience. To this day, he continues to teach people and even has a training and sparring thread where people can easily set up a time to train with him. I don't know about you, but all of this hardly sounds like someone who is doing anything to damage the integrity of this community.

What does damage this integrity, however, is defaming another user, especially if it's unfounded. That is one of the quickest way to divide a community, regardless of what that community is. That is what you are doing here and I don't appreciate it.

I would love for you to stick around. Truly, I do. I even saw your post in the video thread and if you ever do find a way to upload your tournament videos I would enjoy that immensely (a quick look in the video thread will tell you that I like to provide feedback on user's videos.) But if this keeps up, I will be forced to report you.

I joined Smashboards precisely because the people in the Robin forums are some of the most respectful people I know, especially given that this is the internet we're talking about here. And so while I apologize for the wall of text and not being more concise, this is something I feel strongly about and I will not back down.

 

[Froggy]

Thank you for saying this. No really. I appreciate it. And don't worry, I never thought you were rude to me in particular. And I have nothing against your views on Goetia. I think it's fine although I myself don't care for the move.

Having said that, I was really only commenting on your language and how you insulted a fellow Smashboard member. Even if what you accuse Raziek is true, how in the world is calling him an idiot and eventually just devolving into saying "F*** you Raziek" any better? We here at the Robin forums pride ourselves in having established a respectful atmosphere where if we disagree with each other, we do it civilly. So I rather not have that ruined here. If you have beef with Raziek, do it in a mature way.

Furthermore, I would like to respectfully challenge your argument that it's people like Raziek that damages the integrity of the smash community.

In regards to the quotes from Raziek on Goetia, I already addressed that in my previous post. Furthermore, I would argue you are reading a bit too much into some of his posts. Part of it, honestly, is just the way Raziek talks and again, people know that already and take no offense.

As I stated before, a quick look around the Robin forums will tell you just how much Raziek has done for this community. First and foremost, he moderates these forums, as stated already. He has compiled much of the frame date on Robin and the bulk of the research into the character, helping to spark discussion on the character when the game was new. He wrote a comprehensive stage guide that even has helpful visuals. He also used his tournament experience to help Zareidriel host the very first Robin thread tournament which was a great community building experience. To this day, he continues to teach people and even has a training and sparring thread where people can easily set up a time to train with him. I don't know about you, but all of this hardly sounds like someone who is doing anything to damage the integrity of this community.

What does damage this integrity, however, is defaming another user, especially if it's unfounded. That is one of the quickest way to divide a community, regardless of what that community is. That is what you are doing here and I don't appreciate it.

I would love for you to stick around. Truly, I do. I even saw your post in the video thread and if you ever do find a way to upload your tournament videos I would enjoy that immensely (a quick look in the video thread will tell you that I like to provide feedback on user's videos.) But if this keeps up, I will be forced to report you.

I joined Smashboards precisely because the people in the Robin forums are some of the most respectful people I know, especially given that this is the internet we're talking about here. And so while I apologize for the wall of text and not being more concise, this is something I feel strongly about and I will not back down.

I admit that my anger got the better of me and I may have orreacted but I don't think you realize just how much Raziek has damaged the Robin commuity has a whole. The Evo sets are ruined now and Robin players attending Evo are likely to struggle if they choose to go at all(and yes that means he ruined any chance of me going to Evo as well); and as such Raziek has actively ruined largest tournament of the year for many people and the attrocity of that cannot be understated.

I find it to be very difficult to be civil with someone who has done that much damage. It may not help anything to in the present but I think it's important to emphasize and build awareness for what has transpired here.

 

[Player-3]

I admit that my anger got the better of me and I may have orreacted but I don't think you realize just how much Raziek has damaged the Robin commuity has a whole. The Evo sets are ruined now and Robin players attending Evo are likely to struggle if they choose to go at all(and yes that means he ruined any chance of me going to Evo as well); and as such Raziek has actively ruined largest tournament of the year for many people and the attrocity of that cannot be understated.

I find it to be very difficult to be civil with someone who has done that much damage. It may not help anything to in the present but I think it's important to emphasize and build awareness for what has transpired here.

i think this guy has a pretty good point, i played robin on the 3ds one time and the gotea custom made me a god at smash run

 

[ARGHETH]

I admit that my anger got the better of me and I may have orreacted but I don't think you realize just how much Raziek has damaged the Robin commuity has a whole. The Evo sets are ruined now and Robin players attending Evo are likely to struggle if they choose to go at all(and yes that means he ruined any chance of me going to Evo as well); and as such Raziek has actively ruined largest tournament of the year for many people and the attrocity of that cannot be understated.

I find it to be very difficult to be civil with someone who has done that much damage. It may not help anything to in the present but I think it's important to emphasize and build awareness for what has transpired here.

May you please explain why Nosferatu/Goetia is that important when it's a situational command grab that's nowhere near integral to Robin's gameplay? The majority of players won't use Down B more than maybe once or twice a match (unless they use it to get the book, of course), and won't really miss it. Just look at Nairo's games when he played Robin. If this was, say, putting Arcfire+ instead of Arcfire for a majority of the sets I'd understand, but Goetia?

Hey look, I can copy/paste stuff too!
"This Raziek guy is an idiot, "I don't think many of the Nos/Elwind customs are important" he has no business authoring this thread."
"Gotea is that it has a longer start up, which while true isn't a big deal if the move is used otimally" (You could say this about practically ANY MOVE EVER)
"you all (you Raziek in particular being a big part of the problem) messed up the custom sets. Gotea is a big deal."
"I haven't read through the entire thread"
"When I get home and I have my game I will gladly kick your ***." (lol)
"R[a]zeik was actively trying to gut Goteia from the list"
"**** you Raziek."
"like you have a brain"
"Raziek has actively ruined [the] largest tournament of the year"
"So you ****ied out? Well can't say I'm surprised honestly."
^You call all of this stuff just "overeact[ing]" and "letting anger get the better of [you]"? This is wayyyyy past that. Honestly, at this point I'm wondering if you're like one of those people who thinks that they could beat M2K at Melee.

i think this guy has a pretty good point, i played robin on the 3ds one time and the gotea custom made me a god at smash run

I almost fell for that. Almost.

 

[Froggy]

May you please explain why Nosferatu/Goetia is that important when it's a situational command grab that's nowhere near integral to Robin's gameplay? The majority of players won't use Down B more than maybe once or twice a match (unless they use it to get the book, of course), and won't really miss it. Just look at Nairo's games when he played Robin. If this was, say, putting Arcfire+ instead of Arcfire for a majority of the sets I'd understand, but Goetia?

Hey look, I can copy/paste stuff too!
"This Raziek guy is an idiot, "I don't think many of the Nos/Elwind customs are important" he has no business authoring this thread."
"Gotea is that it has a longer start up, which while true isn't a big deal if the move is used otimally" (You could say this about practically ANY MOVE EVER)
"you all (you Raziek in particular being a big part of the problem) messed up the custom sets. Gotea is a big deal."
"I haven't read through the entire thread"
"When I get home and I have my game I will gladly kick your ***." (lol)
"R[a]zeik was actively trying to gut Goteia from the list"
"**** you Raziek."
"like you have a brain"
"Raziek has actively ruined [the] largest tournament of the year"
"So you ****ied out? Well can't say I'm surprised honestly."
^You call all of this stuff just "overeact[ing]" and "letting anger get the better of [you]"? This is wayyyyy past that. Honestly, at this point I'm wondering if you're like one of those people who thinks that they could beat M2K at Melee..

Do you please well at tournaments? I can't imagine you do.

Nosferatu is plenty integral to Robin's game, not so much as Arc Fire or El Thunder but integral just the same, and I would suspect the reason you are only able to land it "maybe once or twice a match" is because you're using Nosferatu and not Goteia. Nairo doesn't really use Robin anymore and while he was instrumental in develping Robin's meta, the meta has passed him now, it is not helpful to look to his matches as any form of authority(much of that was pre-acceptance of customs anyways)

If I might make a suggestion, it would be learn to read and analytically comprehend someone's post before repsonding. The weakness of Nosferatu is that it's difficult to land on your opponent, if Goteia is used correctly that weakness is removed. that is not true of all moves, take Robin's nair for example, if it's weakness is that it lacks kill power then using it optimally will not correct that

My point in posting those quotes was to illustrate Raziek's intent, and back up my claim about what a ****ty person he is. What is your point for quoting these texts? There isn't even a common theme among them.

If you want to have a civil conversation with me then I'm all ears, but if you're just hear to suck Raziek's **** then please go away

 

[DaBeast]

Howdy, I'm here to have a "civil discussion". I just wanted to talk about when you said

Nosferatu is plenty integral to Robin's game, not so much as Arc Fire or El Thunder but integral just the same, and I would suspect the reason you are only able to land it "maybe once or twice a match" is because you're using Nosferatu and not Goteia.

I was wondering if you could elaborate more on that statement. Also another quote that caught my interest was

The weakness of Nosferatu is that it's difficult to land on your opponent, if Goteia is used correctly that weakness is removed.

Many would argue that the size of Goetia isn't the issue but rather the long start up that can be reacted easily. This is the main issue, I would think the majority of Robin mains have with this move. Can you say more clearly what the advantages are for Goetia, outside it having a larger range.

 

[Tattles]

Edit: Tattles and Ble Thunder also stating they like Gotea. I have to state this agian bro, you are an idiot.

I am no tournament goer. I am a scrub, and I was a scrub 6 months ago when I made that post.

I don't care if we share an opinion on a gameplay mechanic, and I don't care who exactly it is you're angrily spewing your opinion at. I don't agree with you on anything outside the game.

You are childishly overreacting.

I do however think that Goetia is absolutely important enough to put in one set, be it 3113 or 1113. It absolutely should have been included in the first place, and I really hope it is included from here on out.

 

[Froggy]

Howdy, I'm here to have a "civil discussion". I just wanted to talk about when you said
I was wondering if you could elaborate more on that statement. Also another quote that caught my interest was Many would argue that the size of Goetia isn't the issue but rather the long start up that can be reacted easily. This is the main issue, I would think the majority of Robin mains have with this move. Can you say more clearly what the advantages are for Goetia, outside it having a larger range.

I mentioed it before in my previous post but because of Goteia's vortex effect it can be used in ways that Nosferatu cannot, for example when empty jumping or falling into your down B you can be Goteia furthur away form the ground and still hit your opponent(to avoid getting hit is the idea) in addition it's great as an anti air stuffing opponents attacking you at a 315 degree angle or steeper. I went ahead and uploaded part of a tournament match I had this saturday, in I site two examples of where Goteia works where Nosferatu would not

https://plus.google.com/10847325951...6154016825043628466&oid=108473259514112100101 (meant to upload to youtube lol)

At 0:34, the vortex affect allows you to capture whiffing moves much greater than nosferatu ever ould, in this example the opponent is just outside of the range were nosferatu would have hit him, but keep in mind he could have been furthur away and this would still work(please note how he tries to run away at the end and it still captures him)

At 1:09 is a much more extreme example and illustrates the flexbility of this custom, note how far away he is from me when the Goteia animation begins and yet it still captures him. Against very mobile opponents the myth is that Goteia is less effective as it's easy from the avoid it, but it's just the opposite capturing opponents who are always on the move is part of what Goteia excels at.

Unfortunately I only recorded few of my matches from this weekend, had I known I would have bene pulled into this debate I would have saved more. It's very common to capture opponents it this manner

I am no tournament goer. I am a scrub, and I was a scrub 6 months ago when I made that post.

I don't care if we share an opinion on a gameplay mechanic, and I don't care who exactly it is you're angrily spewing your opinion at. I don't agree with you on anything outside the game.

You are childishly overreacting.

I do however think that Goetia is absolutely important enough to put in one set, be it 3113 or 1113. It absolutely should have been included in the first place, and I really hope it is included from here on out.

You do not know me and you do not know my views on anything outside of them game therefore you cannot say that you do not share any of my views. I wouldn't be surprised if we shared the same views on a lot of things, however just for calrification are you saying that Goteia should only be included in a single custom set, or is worthy of more?

 

[ARGHETH]

Do you please well at tournaments? I can't imagine you do.

Nosferatu is plenty integral to Robin's game, not so much as Arc Fire or El Thunder but integral just the same, and I would suspect the reason you are only able to land it "maybe once or twice a match" is because you're using Nosferatu and not Goteia. Nairo doesn't really use Robin anymore and while he was instrumental in develping Robin's meta, the meta has passed him now, it is not helpful to look to his matches as any form of authority(much of that was pre-acceptance of customs anyways)

If I might make a suggestion, it would be learn to read and analytically comprehend someone's post before repsonding. The weakness of Nosferatu is that it's difficult to land on your opponent, if Goteia is used correctly that weakness is removed. that is not true of all moves, take Robin's nair for example, if it's weakness is that it lacks kill power then using it optimally will not correct that

My point in posting those quotes was to illustrate Raziek's intent, and back up my claim about what a ****ty person he is. What is your point for quoting these texts? There isn't even a common theme among them.

If you want to have a civil conversation with me then I'm all ears, but if you're just hear to suck Raziek's **** then please go away

...Did you seriously just put "suck Raziek's ****" and "civil conversation" in the same sentence? Anyways, I don't go to tournaments, but you know who does? Raziek. You know, the guy you called a brainless idiot?
Obviously Nosferatu/Goetia is a relatively important part of Robin's game, but the problem is you are arguing that, because Goetia isn't on the majority of the sets, they are "ruined". Ruined implies that it is destroyed and basically unusable, and while Nosferatu/Goetia are good moves, nether the difference between them nor the importance of the moves themselves are to the height that you seem to be arguing at.
(Side note: do you mean Thunder/neutral B or Elthunder, its second stage? Also it would be helpful if you would spell Goetia consistently)
Do you have any videos of anyone (but you) using Goetia that illustrates how Goetia is that much better compared to Nosferatu? (Disclaimer: I haven't actually watched any of your videos, I'm just assuming you think your videos illustrate that)
Here's your quote for context:"[The problem with] Gotea is that it has a longer start up, which while true isn't a big deal if the move is used otimally". You are arguing here that the problem with it isn't an issue if you use it right. With Nair, its weakness it that it lacks killpower, but if it's used optimally, that doesn't matter because it still kills (gimping).
You still haven't illustrated why Raziek is such a "****ty person", and I'd be more likely to consider the person saying all the quotes in my last post a "****ty person" than him.
Wait, my posts need a theme? I thought we were on a forum, not English class... You probably shouldn't go on the main social thread, you'd hate it immediately.

I do however think that Goetia is absolutely important enough to put in one set, be it 3113 or 1113. It absolutely should have been included in the first place, and I really hope it is included from here on out.

I think 3113's position is pretty much set, since the number of vital sets is less than the number of slots, so something relatively niche but still prominent like that will likely be a staple. Of course, I can't see the future and don't know how others think, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[Infinite901]

snip

Man, I like Goetia too, but you're being WAY too aggressive about it. Chill, please.

 

[Nairo]

Nairo doesn't really use Robin anymore and while he was instrumental in develping Robin's meta, the meta has passed him now, it is not helpful to look to his matches as any form of authority(much of that was pre-acceptance of customs anyways)

lol'd at this 10/10

 

[Froggy]

lol'd at this 10/10

Nairo you have no faith in Robin anymore, do not claim that you do.

 

[Nairo]

Nairo you have no faith in Robin anymore, do not claim that you do.

Clearly you've never watch a stream of mine. Shes used very often. You tried to call my Robin bad when the chances of it being the best currently is still likely. You went from saying the meta has passed me to saying I do not having faith in robin trying to change what your other comment said lmao. Please show me the new meta I'd love to see this new meta you are talking about before assuming other things

 

[Froggy]

Clearly you've never watch a stream of mine. Shes used very often. You tried to call my Robin bad when the chances of it being the best currently is still likely. You went from saying the meta has passed me to saying I do not having faith in robin trying to change what your other comment said lmao. Please show me the new meta I'd love to see this new meta you are talking about before assuming other things

You are correct I do not watch your streams, which is irrelevant. My point is that you do not use the character in tournament anymore, and the reason you do not use the character in tournament is because you have no faith in her. Do you see how A and B go together?

Never said your Robin was bad, but the things you did with her (ie the archive of your tournament matches)are old and are not as effective anymore. Thats what tends to happen when you stop using a character, its common sense. (I never changed my argument, that you the meta has passed you and you have no faith in the character are both true at the same time)

 

[ARGHETH]

I'm still waiting for those Goetia videos...

 

[Nairo]

You are correct I do not watch your streams, which is irrelevant. My point is that you do not use the character in tournament anymore, and the reason you do not use the character in tournament is because you have no faith in her. Do you see how A and B go together?

Never said your Robin was bad, but the things you did with her (ie the archive of your tournament matches)are old and are not as effective anymore. Thats what tends to happen when you stop using a character, its common sense. (I never changed my argument, that you the meta has passed you and you have no faith in the character are both true at the same time)

-Doesn't watch my streams
-Goes on to say I stopped using a character with 0 proof on it

lmao stop talking like you know everything. Didn't know I can only go 1 character a tourney man or I have NO FAITH! I guess you see all my tourney matches including I don't know...off stream pool/bracket matches from every tourney I go...? But hey still waiting for proof that the meta has passed me. All this talk sounds like you've done stuff to robin's meta but Ive yet to see results change with this "new" meta from robins users including yourself so I'm inclined to believe that this "old" stuff that I do is still just as effective if not more effective that whatever you do

 

[False Sense]

I'm reading through this thread and... I'm at a loss for words.

Why is the opinion that Goetia isn't that good being treated like some massive hate crime conspiracy? And in the most toxic way imaginable...

 

[LIQUID12A]

I honestly like Goetia to some extent, but not enough to seriously use it every single time I use customs Robin. Recovery almost always outclasses extra damage.

I'm reading through this thread and... I'm at a loss for words.

Why is the opinion that Goetia isn't that good being treated like some massive hate crime conspiracy? And in the most toxic way imaginable...

Because it's the internet. Sad reality.

 

[ARGHETH]

I'm reading through this thread and... I'm at a loss for words.

Why is the opinion that Goetia isn't that good being treated like some massive hate crime conspiracy? And in the most toxic way imaginable...

To be fair, it's more one very rude guy being convinced that he's right and everyone else is wrong more than anything. All the other people, regardless of position, agree that the way he said things is wrong.

 

[Froggy]

-Doesn't watch my streams
-Goes on to say I stopped using a character with 0 proof on it

lmao stop talking like you know everything. Didn't know I can only go 1 character a tourney man or I have NO FAITH! I guess you see all my tourney matches including I don't know...off stream pool/bracket matches from every tourney I go...? But hey still waiting for proof that the meta has passed me. All this talk sounds like you've done stuff to robin's meta but Ive yet to see results change with this "new" meta from robins users including yourself so I'm inclined to believe that this "old" stuff that I do is still just as effective if not more effective that whatever you do

I forget that you're a still a kid sometimes, the things you say and your inability to comprehend basic texts really caught me off guard.

I will spell this out for you. You only use Robin in pools, friendlies and sets that DO NOT matter. Whenever you face a strong opponent in later ends of the bracket you never use Robin anymore and therefore you should be disregarded as a top Robin player.

Do you understand now?