Coming from a different fighting game, my thoughts

[atticusfinch7]

I've been a SF IV (Street Fighter 4) player for a good while and recently I've taken a liking to Smash 4 because of a friend. I borrowed a setup from a cousin about two months ago and after playing for this time I've become disappointed. Here's what has disappointed me:
1. What's with footstools? This is honestly such a stupid feature. They happen randomly and cause you to lose your stock half of the time. It's pretty much rng that shouldn't have such big influence.
2. The balancing is actually really bad. After trying out all the characters I've concluded that some characters like zelda, wario, doc, wii fit trainer, samus, little mac, and ganondorf are completely useless for the competitive scene. Also, characters like cloud and lucario are just stupidly designed. So I outplay my opponent the entire time but one read from my opponent who uses cloud's tornado or lucario's command grab or corrin's counter should cost me the game at 60%? And I've looked through the patch information since the game's release and the favoritism towards sword characters is obvious.
3. There are too many human/anime characters for this game. Nintendo is known for cartoon-designed characters, it shouldn't have a bunch of anime swordsmen that hardly anyone recognizes.
4. Why are there so many characters designed on projectile spam? There really shouldn't be more than two or three.
5. Everyone is actually really rude to beginners here. All I see is "git gud". Maybe most members here are just fedora tipping 10 year olds?
6. Finally, even with so many characters, I see just the same ones being used. I've only went to two different locals for this game, and one of those was only once, but I see way too many Marios, Clouds, and Rosalinas.

So this is just what I wanted to share. Despite these criticisms I still like this game a lot, but I'm curious if you guys who have been playing longer agree with what I've said.

 

[Tainic]

So.

1.Footstool aren't RNG, though they're really awkward to use without using your second jump, and most of the people just end up footstooling when panicking by spamming the X/Y button. (Well, most For Glory players, I guess.)
2.The balancing is actually kinda okay when you compare it to the 1.0.0 build where the game essentially had only 4 really viable characters in Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina and Diddy Kong, about one year and a half later, Diddy Kong, Rosalina and Sheik are much more easier to manage, and some of the flawed characters at release (Marth, Ike, Robin, Donkey Kong, Bowser, Mewtwo and Lucas at their release post-launch.) got pretty significant buffes that made them viable. Also, Sword characters got buffed because most of them were sorta bad tbh. (Only correct Sword/Disjoint using characters I can think of that have been good ever since their release are Pit, his recolor and Cloud.)
3.yeah and there are too many brawlers and gunner/turtle type of characters too. The game was made with a rock paper sissor like schema in head, where Brawlers > Gunners > Swordfighters > Brawlers, face it.
4.See 3.
5.Welcome to the video game community, don't pay attention to idiots. (Fun fact : This trick also works outside of Gaming Communities.)
6.The game is still kinda young and one regrettable thing is that the characters being focused on have been the same ones for ages now, making the meta of other characters whth loads of untapped potential such as Shulk and Toon Link grow really slowly, it'll probably change with time though, just wait for people to get tired of Sheik/ZSS/Mario/Sonic/Cloud.

 

[ARGHETH]

1. What's with footstools? This is honestly such a stupid feature. They happen randomly and cause you to lose your stock half of the time. It's pretty much rng that shouldn't have such big influence.

They happen if you jump when you're right on top of your opponent. No RNG involved.

2. The balancing is actually really bad. After trying out all the characters I've concluded that some characters like zelda, wario, doc, wii fit trainer, samus, little mac, and ganondorf are completely useless for the competitive scene. Also, characters like cloud and lucario are just stupidly designed. So I outplay my opponent the entire time but one read from my opponent who uses cloud's tornado or lucario's command grab or corrin's counter should cost me the game at 60%? And I've looked through the patch information since the game's release and the favoritism towards sword characters is obvious.

Wario's high tier, WFT's mid, Nairo used Doc to beat ESAM at MLG, and LM and Samus have players doing well with them.
Ganondorf is relatively bad (bottom 10), but still has players that do very well at local level.

3. There are too many human/anime characters for this game. Nintendo is known for cartoon-designed characters, it shouldn't have a bunch of anime swordsmen that hardly anyone recognizes.

I'm assuming you're talking about the Fire Emblem characters? ()
I'm not even going to bother.

4. Why are there so many characters designed on projectile spam? There really shouldn't be more than two or three.

?
There's, like, the Links, Duck Hunt, and Villager. That's four, five if you count Robin (who has the durability mechanic discouraging this, but whatever).

5. Everyone is actually really rude to beginners here. All I see is "git gud". Maybe most members here are just fedora tipping 10 year olds?

...and insulting all of us isn't going to help any, dude.
Where have you posted this? Link?

6. Finally, even with so many characters, I see just the same ones being used. I've only went to two different locals for this game, and one of those was only once, but I see way too many Marios, Clouds, and Rosalinas.

Mario and Cloud are the easiest characters to get decent with; of course you'll see them often. In the locals I go to, there's all kinds of characters. The top players use Sheik, TL, and Villager, for example.
Actually, I'm surprised that you met a Rosalina player; let alone too many of them.

 

[Xermo]

For someone who supposedly follows through on patch notes, you should at least understand how to play the game first.

Footstools aren't random.

Tiers aren't horribly imbalanced, you just have to be proficient with the character to do well in tournies.

Complaining about non-cartoony characters is nitpicking at it's finest if you honestly think Nintendo is all cartoons. Street Fighter doesn't have enough "street fighting" character designs, don't see you complaining about that.

There's, like, 6 characters who benefit heavily from projectile play, less than a 4th of the roster. What are you talking about. Half the roster in SFIV has a projectile in comparison.

Nice meme. Protip, avoid For Glory if you're looking for advice and to get better.

You seriously complaining about people using good characters? Last I checked, SFIV was flooded with shotos and DP spamming children. It sounds more like your region is flooded with high tiers.

Damn I took the bait pretty hard.

 

[FSLink]

You seriously complaining about people using good characters? Last I checked, SFIV was flooded with shotos and DP spamming children. It sounds more like your region is flooded with high tiers.

USF4 is one of the most balanced fighting games in awhile. Hardly a shotofest.

I'd say Smash 4's current incarnation feels pretty similar to USF4 balance wise, there's a few great characters but for the most part the cast overall feels viable.

3. There are too many human/anime characters for this game. Nintendo is known for cartoon-designed characters, it shouldn't have a bunch of anime swordsmen that hardly anyone recognizes.
5. Everyone is actually really rude to beginners here. All I see is "git gud". Maybe most members here are just fedora tipping 10 year olds?
6. Finally, even with so many characters, I see just the same ones being used. I've only went to two different locals for this game, and one of those was only once, but I see way too many Marios, Clouds, and Rosalinas.

For #3, Fire Emblem is just a popular series on the uprise, it shouldn't be a surprise that they got a lot of representation (though some of us were kinda shocked that they had that many, I certainly wasn't expecting Corrin even though I wanted him/her). I feel they did a pretty good job at making them retain their original design but also fit the cartoony look Smash 4 has. I mean look at Cloud in Smash 4 vs how he looks like in the trailers for the FF7 remake, I feel they did a pretty good job at making them both invoke that classic design + make them feel right at home in Smash.

#6, people at locals tend to use easier characters, and it differs per region. Rosalina is actually pretty rare in my experience, so you're just lucky, or unlucky if you look at it that way. It's not much different than having a lot of Ryu/Kens at low to mid level play in SF (and having actual high level ones be kinda rare)

 

[MrStardustRicon]

1. What's with footstools? This is honestly such a stupid feature. They happen randomly and cause you to lose your stock half of the time. It's pretty much rng that shouldn't have such big influence.

You jump on someones head when you are above them, not much RNG at all, if you think someone is going for a footstool save your jump so you can recover better.

2. The balancing is actually really bad. After trying out all the characters I've concluded that some characters like zelda, wario, doc, wii fit trainer, samus, little mac, and ganondorf are completely useless for the competitive scene. Also, characters like cloud and lucario are just stupidly designed. So I outplay my opponent the entire time but one read from my opponent who uses cloud's tornado or lucario's command grab or corrin's counter should cost me the game at 60%? And I've looked through the patch information since the game's release and the favoritism towards sword characters is obvious.

The balancing in this game is actually really great, I'd say about 30-40 characters are viable at mid level play which is an absolutely amazing thing imo for a game with a roster this large

3. There are too many human/anime characters for this game. Nintendo is known for cartoon-designed characters, it shouldn't have a bunch of anime swordsmen that hardly anyone recognizes.

Anime sword users have been around since the NES with Link and Marth, don't assume just because you don't recognize a character that they aren't identifiable to someone. While I might've not had a clue as to who Shulk was when he was revealed Xenoblade fans were overjoyed and it got me to play a really amazing game because of his inclusion.

4. Why are there so many characters designed on projectile spam? There really shouldn't be more than two or three.

lmao, there's only like three characters in this game that I'd classify as projectile "spammers" and even then they are supposed to be played as zoning characters instead. Sorry low level players just like the special button with Link too much.

5. Everyone is actually really rude to beginners here. All I see is "git gud". Maybe most members here are just fedora tipping 10 year olds?

Most people online will do this, but that's true of literally any game. This is how I was treated when I tried to get into more traditional fighting games. If you do need actual help understanding something, or your character there are guides all across both this site and on YouTube so I would check there instead of random people online. Alternatively a lot of top level players will give specific advice on their streams or twitter if you ask, and people will be glad to give you advice at local events.

6. Finally, even with so many characters, I see just the same ones being used. I've only went to two different locals for this game, and one of those was only once, but I see way too many Marios, Clouds, and Rosalinas.

People like to go to the easiest character to play as that's also good, just take a look at any fighting game and you'll see plenty of mid level players using the best shoto clone in the game.

Hopefully this answered some stuff for you man, and hopefully you find yourself enjoying the game.

 

[randomguy1235]

USF4 is one of the most balanced fighting games in awhile. Hardly a shotofest.

I'd say Smash 4's current incarnation feels pretty similar to USF4 balance wise, there's a few great characters but for the most part the cast overall feels viable.


For #3, Fire Emblem is just a popular series on the uprise, it shouldn't be a surprise that they got a lot of representation (though some of us were kinda shocked that they had that many, I certainly wasn't expecting Corrin even though I wanted him/her). I feel they did a pretty good job at making them retain their original design but also fit the cartoony look Smash 4 has. I mean look at Cloud in Smash 4 vs how he looks like in the trailers for the FF7 remake, I feel they did a pretty good job at making them both invoke that classic design + make them feel right at home in Smash.

#6, people at locals tend to use easier characters, and it differs per region. Rosalina is actually pretty rare in my experience, so you're just lucky, or unlucky if you look at it that way. It's not much different than having a lot of Ryu/Kens at low to mid level play in SF (and having actual high level ones be kinda rare)

Zelda, Jiggs, Duck Hunt, Dedede, Ganondorf, etc prove otherwise.

 

[digiholic]

So, as a Street Fighter player myself, I'll weigh in on these.

1. What's with footstools? This is honestly such a stupid feature. They happen randomly and cause you to lose your stock half of the time. It's pretty much rng that shouldn't have such big influence.

They're not random. Like, at all. They're hard to pull off, but completely repeatable and practiceable. Every footstool in high level play is deliberate. That'd be like calling wakeup SRK's random because most people can't do them 100%.

2. The balancing is actually really bad. After trying out all the characters I've concluded that some characters like zelda, wario, doc, wii fit trainer, samus, little mac, and ganondorf are completely useless for the competitive scene. Also, characters like cloud and lucario are just stupidly designed. So I outplay my opponent the entire time but one read from my opponent who uses cloud's tornado or lucario's command grab or corrin's counter should cost me the game at 60%? And I've looked through the patch information since the game's release and the favoritism towards sword characters is obvious.

With a game with nearly 60 fighters, there's gonna be a dozen or so that aren't good. Remember that unlike SF, competitive Smash is only half the game. There's going to be features casual players use that competitive players don't, and there's features competitive players use that casual players don't. Comeback characters like Cloud and Lucario have their direct weaknesses. Lucario's just generally got bad frame data on most of his moves and only gets good when his percentage gets up, and Cloud's recovery is so bad that he's easy to kill before he even gets a chance to build up his Limit.

3. There are too many human/anime characters for this game. Nintendo is known for cartoon-designed characters, it shouldn't have a bunch of anime swordsmen that hardly anyone recognizes.

The times are changing. Nintendo's done a lot more human characters lately, and they want to represent them. Fire Emblem went from a tiny niche game barely worth translating to a huge franchise that people eagerly await more of. Xenoblade had a massive fan outcry for a US port. Bayonetta won the poll for characters people wanted in the game.

4. Why are there so many characters designed on projectile spam? There really shouldn't be more than two or three.

Because Smash has so many mechanics built in to the game to deal with projectiles it's totally fair for a character to be based on projectiles. Powershielding, spot dodges, air dodges and platforms mean that projectiles are just another way to fight in this game. Also, keep in mind that the Smash roster is about five times bigger than most other competitive 2D fighters, so expect to see about five times as many zoners as well as rushers and grapplers.

5. Everyone is actually really rude to beginners here. All I see is "git gud". Maybe most members here are just fedora tipping 10 year olds?

Welcome to the FGC my friend. You seek out posts of people bashing beginners and you're gonna find them in droves. Smash seems to be pretty friendly to new people, much more than traditional fighters.

6. Finally, even with so many characters, I see just the same ones being used. I've only went to two different locals for this game, and one of those was only once, but I see way too many Marios, Clouds, and Rosalinas.

Welcome to competitive gaming. After you watch Shiek Vs. Shiek, feel free to check out this Ryu vs. Ryu matchup, or this Protoss vs. Protoss game or this Magneto/Storm/Sentinel vs Magneto/Storm/Sentinel

 

[DaDavid]

Let's take bets, do we even think he's gonna reply?

 

[Thinkaman]

Zelda, Jiggs, Duck Hunt, Dedede, Ganondorf, etc prove otherwise.

I have won events with 3 of those 5 characters.

 

[Deviruki]

There are so many things wrong with this.

 

[AJb1205]

I have won events with 3 of those 5 characters.

Which three? I'll guess Jiggs, Zelda, and Dedede

3. There are too many human/anime characters for this game. Nintendo is known for cartoon-designed characters, it shouldn't have a bunch of anime swordsmen that hardly anyone recognizes.

This statement can only be potentially true for these characters: ,,,
That's only 4 characters. is very well known, has been out in japan for a year, and Corrin came out about a week ago which a lot of people have been hyped for. is more recognizable than marth since Lucina was in awakening which is on the 3ds. Besides there are way more brawlers than swordsmen anyway.

And just to be clear: Smash bros is a game to basically "celebrating" Nintendo's history. So it'd be natural for them to include all their characters, including the "anime swordsmen" Also they aren't even anime. I hate when people use that term.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

Stopped reading at footstools being random and RNG, as well as the anime swordsmen comparison.

 

[Thinkaman]

Which three? I'll guess Jiggs, Zelda, and Dedede

Jiggs, Ganon, and DHD.

In all three cases, I pulled them out after losing games as Ness, my highest-tier character.