Combos

[SSBPete]

2 new combos. i'm getting HEAPS better now. didnt wanna make a new thread.
enjoy! (still recorded on my phone sorry).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwFEwqS0SIw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL1PfKfih3Q


Dont get too excited there not great since there my first combos and the quality is poor since i recorded them with my phone on the N64. non the less give them a watch anyway and tell me what you think and tell me how i can improve. i'll order them from best to worst.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWLA4qivUAU new probly the best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czso7iW4ZtU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XBiQbpcjMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yApDY-ZRv2s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-H0p9ZDeZ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnyBU1M8SLg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEFKtvENQxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBDzb6dxFlg



thanks for watching

 

[WOTG]

Those are the type of combos I pull off in an actual match(basics)
You're getting there though. I'm not too creative with training mode combos either.

 

[SSBPete]

yea thanks. these are my first combos and i'm trying to get more creative by watching the good players such as prince, isai ect.

 

[asianaussie]

Remember, anything with drills can be DIed, so those combos with Yoshi's D-Air won't always work. They're a lot better than the one you posted a couple weeks ago. These are the combos people should learn to use in actual matches.

 

[DMoogle]

Remember, anything with drills can be DIed, so those combos with Yoshi's D-Air won't always work. They're a lot better than the one you posted a couple weeks ago. These are the combos people should learn to use in actual matches.

Obviously you can say the same thing about any combo (except for grab combos), but I agree with you if the combo is for primarily practical purposes.

Although, FWIW, probably 95%+ of online smash players can't DI well enough to effectively get out of even a simple Yoshi dair/utilt/dair/utilt/usmash combo if the Yoshi can DI chase decently.

 

[ciaza]

Obviously you can say the same thing about any combo (except for grab combos), but I agree with you if the combo is for primarily practical purposes.

Although, FWIW, probably 95%+ of online smash players can't DI well enough to effectively get out of even a simple Yoshi dair/utilt/dair/utilt/usmash combo if the Yoshi can DI chase decently.

Still, the Aus community is a tight-knit, we all seem to learn and grow off eachothers strengths, which means we all know the same stuff, including DI.

 

[asianaussie]

I use keyboard, so I can DI out

Most of the Aus players (who Pete plays with, I assume) can DI properly - most of us are fairly decent.

 

[House]

You can't compare training mode combos to actual match combos.

 

[SSBPete]

like i said, i'm still trying to improve and i've only been playing 6months, if that, so i think i still have a while to go.

 

[blaze3927]

well yuo definitley have gotten a lot better, when are you coming back online?

 

[SSBPete]

probly after the holidays sorry man. just gettin bored of computer games.

 

[TANK64]

Although, FWIW, probably 95%+ of online smash players can't DI well enough to effectively get out of even a simple Yoshi dair/utilt/dair/utilt/usmash combo if the Yoshi can DI chase decently.

soooo true

I use keyboard, so I can DI out

Hey! No fair!

 

[asianaussie]

At least you lot don't have to spam buffering to get combos through.

 

[SSBPete]

i'm starting to get more creative since these actually. i did one on mushroom kingdom were the opponent gets spiked into the plant and comes back up for me to continue the combo. probly wont upload it though.

 

[asianaussie]

Training mode combos are silly, play real people in real matches. Leave the crazy combos to Isai and co.

 

[ballin4life]

Training mode combos can be fun and they definitely can help you practice tech skill stuff.

 

[DMoogle]

Training mode combos are silly, play real people in real matches. Leave the crazy combos to Isai and co.

Why are they silly? They're entertaining, fun, and pretty amazing at times (the technical skill required to complete even a simple-looking one is fairly big).

 

[SSBPete]

plus i'm having a break from online since its addictive and every now and then it dosnt hurt to pull off a couple combos to keep me up to date.

 

[asianaussie]

Alright, it was an opinionated comment. You can disregard it, do whatever. I do agree with the tech skill comment...but to me it seems that's the only real benefit you get from it that can't be gotten in actual matches.

 

[DMoogle]

Alright, it was an opinionated comment. You can disregard it, do whatever. I do agree with the tech skill comment...but to me it seems that's the only real benefit you get from it that can't be gotten in actual matches.

It can open your eyes up to new possibilities. For example, I never would've thought of f-air to f-smash (or even down-B which I think is in another combo) if not for combos like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2oiCuQaupw. And it's effective for sure.

 

[Daedatheus]

Alright, it was an opinionated comment. You can disregard it, do whatever. I do agree with the tech skill comment...but to me it seems that's the only real benefit you get from it that can't be gotten in actual matches.

Learning combos give you better control over your character and open your eyes to new pressure and combo possibilites in real matches. Better control over your character is ALWAYS useful in real matches. The benefit to your spacing alone is huge.

 

[rpotts]

I understand cheeseball's comment somewhat. I do like to practice training mode combos but there are tons of people uploading basic falcon combos and stuff that everyone knows exist. That serves no purpose. Practicing the combo is fine, but you don't necessarily need to upload all of them.

 

[remedys]

keep uploading them. the basic combos are the most helpful for noobs (me).

 

[blaze3927]

but then you get everyone playing the character the same :\
i mean look at the aus servers, everyone plays each character very similarly and it gets kinda boring.

 

[MiketheMike]

um the last two links show the same combos

 

[dch111]

shouldn't upload a bunch of different basic combos; rather, it'd be helpful to compile them into a single video called "standard combos" or "basic combos"

I've only seen one combo guide on gamefaqs and I only really learned like, a couple combos from it.

Most come from self practice though, so I guess it's not a big deal

 

[DMoogle]

but then you get everyone playing the character the same :\
i mean look at the aus servers, everyone plays each character very similarly and it gets kinda boring.

In every situation there is always a mathematically best move (which puts into consideration mind games WHEN IT NEEDS TO). The better the players become, the more similar their play will be to the best "style."

 

[Lawrencelot]

In every situation there is always a mathematically best move (which puts into consideration mind games WHEN IT NEEDS TO). The better the players become, the more similar their play will be to the best "style."

Are you saying that the better 2 players become, the more they will get the same style, even if they never play each other?

 

[DMoogle]

Are you saying that the better 2 players become, the more they will get the same style, even if they never play each other?

Theoretically, yes. Realistically, not necessarily. The reason for this is that they may develop different skills and techniques at different rates. So you might have one guy who's really good at comboing and finishing be even with another player who's really good at spacing and approach. However, on average, the closer the two players are to the ideal, the more similar their styles should become.

 

[ballin4life]

In every situation there is always a mathematically best move (which puts into consideration mind games WHEN IT NEEDS TO). The better the players become, the more similar their play will be to the best "style."

While I sort of agree with your overall point that styles converge, this is wrong.

1) In many situations two moves are equally good (e.g. jiggs misses rest at high percent).

2) This is definitely not true for all games (see rock paper scissors) so you'd have to explain why smash is different and there is a mathematically correct move in every case.

3) It's a huge stretch to take mind games into account... yeah if you know exactly what the other person will do there might be a single best approach, but you don't.

 

[DMoogle]

1) In many situations two moves are equally good (e.g. jiggs misses rest at high percent).

This is MUCH more true for finishing combos than anything else. Obviously finishing moves are a tiny minority.

2) This is definitely not true for all games (see rock paper scissors) so you'd have to explain why smash is different and there is a mathematically correct move in every case..

Because the players don't start matches equally. There are two things that make this true: character selection (which obviously doesn't matter for dittos) and player number (e.g. player #1 starts on a different part of the stage than player #2).

3) It's a huge stretch to take mind games into account... yeah if you know exactly what the other person will do there might be a single best approach, but you don't.

True, it is. It can affect decisions for tech-chasing (e.g. is it possible to unexploitably tech-chase? That would be cool) and move consideration when you factor in DI. In fact, a perfect player using perfect DI might make a match close to combo-less. But in a perfect match would result in one player who starts with the advantage unexploitably approaching his opponent, who would basically be running away until he has no stage left, in which case he would get attacked in the most unexploitable way. That is, unless he can out-run his opponent, in which case it would be an endless match, or a stalemate.

 

[remedys]

im pretty sure the game would be a stalemate if both players played perfectly. one player who starts in worse position mmight get damaged but with di i think they'd be in neutral positions pretty quickly

 

[Tambor]

I like where this discussion is going.
I don't think the playstyle of good players should be similar or that there is such a thing as a "best style". I hate when a community plays each character the same. They all get so predictable...
It's the versitality of options that makes each match unique (and fun).

 

[ballin4life]

Because the players don't start matches equally. There are two things that make this true: character selection (which obviously doesn't matter for dittos) and player number (e.g. player #1 starts on a different part of the stage than player #2).

I don't understand. Why does being unequal mean that there will be a best strategy?

I mean you could have rock paper scissors best of 3, but I start with an automatic win (so I have to win one, you have to win two). This is unequal but it doesn't change the strategy.

Just trying to get what you're saying.

 

[DMoogle]

I don't understand. Why does being unequal mean that there will be a best strategy?

I mean you could have rock paper scissors best of 3, but I start with an automatic win (so I have to win one, you have to win two). This is unequal but it doesn't change the strategy.

That analogy isn't the same. Compare playing as Fox on the left side of Hyrule to on the right side. I think most Fox players would agree that he performs better on the right side. One of the reasons for that is that the left side has a slanted ground, which doesn't work well with many of Fox's moves' hitboxes.

 

[SSBPete]

shouldn't upload a bunch of different basic combos; rather, it'd be helpful to compile them into a single video called "standard combos" or "basic combos"

I've only seen one combo guide on gamefaqs and I only really learned like, a couple combos from it.

Most come from self practice though, so I guess it's not a big deal

yea, that was the origional idea. i made a vid called basic combos on windows movie maker then when i tryed to save it as a file and it completely screwed up. my movie maker stopped working a while ago.

also on the topic of the best way to play: i remember seeing an isai vs superboom on yt and 4 or 5 of the attacks they did were the same attack in perfect unison. link dittos. it was really wierd.

 

[asianaussie]

but then you get everyone playing the character the same :\
i mean look at the aus servers, everyone plays each character very similarly and it gets kinda boring.

This only applies to characters everybody plays fairly well, like Falcon. I haven't seen anyone but Kuro play Link like me...and that's probably because I learned a lot from him. Boomerang techchases are awesome.

 

[blaze3927]

This only applies to characters everybody plays fairly well, like Falcon. I haven't seen anyone but Kuro play Link like me...and that's probably because I learned a lot from him. Boomerang techchases are awesome.

I disagree,
ciaza and rom play link a lot like you (actually come to think of it ciaza and rom are like dittos in play style :s)
and even i do

you introduced me to the idea of using boomerang as a tech chase leading into a grab, and you probably started the prominence of the utilts in links on the aus servers, ciaza and rom build their whole combos/approaches mostly around utilt and usmash

 

[asianaussie]

I can see your point...but every character has a sort of formula to work off. We all have our perks when playing characters. For instance, I use D-Tilt as a proper edgeguard, pull out a bomb to throw when recovering, and SH D-Air out of shield a lot.

U-Tilt spam is a bad habit, and I've basically rid myself of it. I've started putting in neut-A prods and diversifying. Also, you can't approach with U-tilt, and U-Smash is a very poor approach.

In other news, I'm trying to use U-Air > Falcon Kick. It seems to do well against Jiggs.

 

[blaze3927]

^^ give it a month everyone will be doing uair falcon kick
you might not know the story of falcon kick edge guard