Combo Discussion

[Wiisnake]

I want to main Ness hard, but I am having trouble finding combos to him, can anyone please list some decent ones for him?

 

[Nguz95]

Dthrow all day every day. It leads into a ton of excellent combos. Gmaster was just talking about going dthrow short hop magnet double jump cancel nair. You can also do some other cool stuff with the magnet, just check out the thread entitled "How are you using Magnet?" You also have to abuse his dair. It combos into a lot of stuff, and it can set up some nasty gimps and tech chases. Fair sets up lots of grabs. His throw game is excellent, so you can use those regrabs to set up uthrow chains on fast-fallers or dthrow stuff on midweights and floaties. Pk fire should also be abused, as it's an excellent projectile. You can set up throws, smashes, and aerials out of it. If somebody better than me (Gmaster? Spiffy? NZA?) decides to chime in, they will probably be able to help you some more.

 

[Bryonato]

Add me on Skype if you ever want to talk ness. Search spiffy.beej or Bryon Rothfusz


Learn to use magnet. It's absolutely essential to Ness' combo game.

Not really in the mood to type a lot but here's some general stuff to get you started.

djc dair -> bair is the easiest kill set up for Ness once you get the hang of it.

Against spacies -> uthrow chains are pretty reliable. Around 60% you can djc uair to regrab as well.
Against middleweights like Ganon/Link/etc -> dthrow -> fair -> regrab -> dthrow. Pretty simple stuff that can set you up for further combos. If you ever catch a middleweight NOT di'ing away you can chain uairs on them really well.
Against floaties -> dthrow -> magnet -> fair/nair -> regrab -> dthrow -> magnet -> whatever you can do next. IMO it's pretty hard for Ness to combo floaties since he lacks aerial/ground speed so utilizing magnet is soooooooooo important vs floaties since it leads into a lot of ****.


ACTUALLY I am in the mood to type a bunch of **** now since I'm watching my most recent broadcast. I don't really feel like searching for a lot of the big combos I did so I'll just talk about the little ones. Here's a link to what I'm watching; I'll talk to you about some combo ****. Skip to 2:35:30. http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/445416587

First thing I do is empty magnet -> djc fair to punish a random airdodge. I like using magnet a lot to stall in the air to get the most out of djc (thanks to Calabrel for that). Out of the fair I dthrow -> techchase -> then I catch him DI'ing poorly so I immediately utilt (super useful vs CF) -> and punish his missed tech with djc uair and the next missed tech with magnet. Then he SD's so whatever haha. I do some other small little things that game but nothing worth talking about so yeah. Feel free to watch but otherwise...

Next skip to 2:40:09.
Magnet -> djc nair -> dthrow is pretty legit. You see again the utilt -> uair that I used previously. Then I proceed to fail and not capitalize on any of the following opportunities.

Also Djc dair -> bair -> nair edgeguard at 2:40:31


Anyways I'm feeling lazy again. There's some other cool stuff in my past broadcasts so feel free to just skim through them. Gmaster also as some sick Ness ****.

 

[Nido]

I've been trying to learn how to combo into a PKT1 tail then PKT2, I haven't had much success but hopefully some consistent strats will come up.

 

[The_NZA]

I've been trying to learn how to combo into a PKT1 tail then PKT2, I haven't had much success but hopefully some consistent strats will come up.

I feel this doesn't work as well as it did in Brawl.

 

[The_NZA]

Dthrow all day every day. It leads into a ton of excellent combos. Gmaster was just talking about going dthrow short hop magnet double jump cancel nair. You can also do some other cool stuff with the magnet, just check out the thread entitled "How are you using Magnet?" You also have to abuse his dair. It combos into a lot of stuff, and it can set up some nasty gimps and tech chases. Fair sets up lots of grabs. His throw game is excellent, so you can use those regrabs to set up uthrow chains on fast-fallers or dthrow stuff on midweights and floaties. Pk fire should also be abused, as it's an excellent projectile. You can set up throws, smashes, and aerials out of it. If somebody better than me (Gmaster? Spiffy? NZA?) decides to chime in, they will probably be able to help you some more.

You are such a fricken sweetheart. I don't even have any videos up or results...I'll look into changing that so I can earn being next to Spiffy and Gmaster.

Anyways, DJC will help you get combos to connect. The tricky thing about Ness combos over other characters is that your double jump is slow, so the timings can sometimes be VERY tight. Also, Ness is pretty bad at comboing people of certain weight classes and much better at comboing others.

Focusing on the basics, try to go for DJC fair -> dthrow and from there watch where they go.

If they go above you,

you can full hop uair immediate double jump and if your lucky, pop them with another uair.

OR

You can sourspot nair, and usually use your DJC to connect into something else

OR

You can magnet -> DJC dair and reset them

OR

You can full hop dair -> magnet stall/djc aerial of your choice to tech chase.

If they DI away from you

You can DJC fair -> regrab
OR

You can Shorthop nair -> edgeguard/tech read

OR

You can Magnet -> DJC fair/nair -> regrab (this is trickier)

OR

You can short hop an uair/dair if you think you can reach them in time


That's by and large the bnb options out of a grab. Every aerial has a very strong identity in ness's game. nair is quickest, short range, sends at sexkick like angles and can combo when sourspotted. Dair can reset or spike or pop up. Fair is the BNB zoning large ranged move with many follow ups. Uair is a combo extender or vertical killer (within a combo against mid-lightweights, you usually want to fullhop into another jumped uair rather than DJC it). Bair is your finisher (although, sometimes against bad DI at low percents you can bair into bair). Sometimes in a combo, you have to stall your momentum with a magnet. If an opponent is bottom right/left to you in a combo, you can pkfire them at 0 risk. When you really begin to figure it out, you can mix in dtilts to jab reset. That's some advanced **** though that I'm still figuring out.

 

[GMaster171]

^Pretty much nailed it lol.

The fantastic part about Ness' combo game is that the damage you get from any give combo grows with your own skill. I remember when I began I used to just use fair out of grab to regrab/combo. As my skill grew, I incorporated DJC fair into it to make it more reliable. Next came magnet DJC fair and now to DJC nair (which is the max damage you can get from a grab while still almost guaranteeing a regrab to my knowledge). This whole point is rather obvious, but imo it stands true for Ness more than most.

A good "reset" sorta thing to do after any combo that ends with DJC, is instead of cancelling the DJ, do a rising aerial, fade back and PKF. Its extremely safe, and it works well on all except the most patient or ones who know when you're going to do it.

really the hardest to combo are the floaties (Zelda, Peach, Puff, even Mario) because on DI out you cant get a magnet in, meaning you have to fair which lets them float away from the rest of a combo. a sorta saving grace is usmash. Floaties have nothing to beat it, even if they have a jump sometimes, so its safe, damaging and it kills at decent %s due to the opponents nature.

Other class id call harder to combo directly out of a grab are the psuedo FFers, namely Lucas, Diddy and MK. DI out causes them to hit the ground before Magnet can connect, so again you must fair to do damage. It is nice that they fall faster so you can regrab, its just you get less damage overall.

Edit: speaking of skype, if you want to all add me/post Skype names I could create a room for Ness discussion. I know other characters have such a think, and its kinda fun imo

 

[The_NZA]

^Pretty much nailed it lol.

The fantastic part about Ness' combo game is that the damage you get from any give combo grows with your own skill. I remember when I began I used to just use fair out of grab to regrab/combo. As my skill grew, I incorporated DJC fair into it to make it more reliable. Next came magnet DJC fair and now to DJC nair (which is the max damage you can get from a grab while still almost guaranteeing a regrab to my knowledge). This whole point is rather obvious, but imo it stands true for Ness more than most.

A good "reset" sorta thing to do after any combo that ends with DJC, is instead of cancelling the DJ, do a rising aerial, fade back and PKF. Its extremely safe, and it works well on all except the most patient or ones who know when you're going to do it.

really the hardest to combo are the floaties (Zelda, Peach, Puff, even Mario) because on DI out you cant get a magnet in, meaning you have to fair which lets them float away from the rest of a combo. a sorta saving grace is usmash. Floaties have nothing to beat it, even if they have a jump sometimes, so its safe, damaging and it kills at decent %s due to the opponents nature.

Other class id call harder to combo directly out of a grab are the psuedo FFers, namely Lucas, Diddy and MK. DI out causes them to hit the ground before Magnet can connect, so again you must fair to do damage. It is nice that they fall faster so you can regrab, its just you get less damage overall.

Edit: speaking of skype, if you want to all add me/post Skype names I could create a room for Ness discussion. I know other characters have such a think, and its kinda fun imo

I think my username on Skype is livevil200.

Go ahead and add me. I REALLY want to show you guys video but I don't ahve any way or money to get a way. I might go to a tourney but I might get jitters aka the Gmasters.

PS, not to start mudslinging but everyone keeps talking about Awestin and I haven't seen one Awestin video that has influenced me into changing how I play Ness. Can someone tell me what he excels at that gives him the results he gets or makes him so formidable. He has the results to prove he's worth looking at but I haven't seen a video that shows why I should pay attention to him.

I'm not trying to take away from his wins––a win is a win––but what is he doing with Ness that is getting so much mileage. Videos of him playing well would be appreciated since I'm always trying to change the way I play. If any of you can get Awestin to post, I'd love to hear his insights into the way he plays Ness (although I've never seen him post on these forums).

 

[GMaster171]

Just went and watched a bunch of his videos, and I think I have someone of a grasp on how he plays. From what I saw, a large part of his success is just hes a smart player. he uses simple but effective setups when he sees an opening. however, another large part is that nobody seems to know how to fight Ness yet lol. His opponents constantly run into silly things and fall into false setups (such as low% dair->dair out of d-throw, its not actually a combo, they can shield on landing) because they don't seem to know what Ness can do yet. This isnt Awestin specific, it happens to me, and others from what I'v seen. But when people die while edgeguarding PKT2, take 60 damage because they don't SDI PKF or generally don''t respect Ness options as they should (like they are still playing Melee or something :/), it makes me cringe lol.

I love watching Awestin play tho, he kinda shows that Ness doesn't absolutely NEED complex tech to do well.

I never like trying to analyzing others play, it always seems like I'm putting them down

Edit: no need to feel pressured to post videos if you cant, its all cool

 

[Wiisnake]

Just went and watched a bunch of his videos, and I think I have someone of a grasp on how he plays. From what I saw, a large part of his success is just hes a smart player. he uses simple but effective setups when he sees an opening. however, another large part is that nobody seems to know how to fight Ness yet lol. His opponents constantly run into silly things and fall into false setups (such as low% dair->dair out of d-throw, its not actually a combo, they can shield on landing) because they don't seem to know what Ness can do yet. This isnt Awestin specific, it happens to me, and others from what I'v seen. But when people die while edgeguarding PKT2, take 60 damage because they don't SDI PKF or generally don''t respect Ness options as they should (like they are still playing Melee or something :/), it makes me cringe lol.

I love watching Awestin play tho, he kinda shows that Ness doesn't absolutely NEED complex tech to do well.

I never like trying to analyzing others play, it always seems like I'm putting them down

Edit: no need to feel pressured to post videos if you cant, its all cool

Yeah, no need

 

[Nido]

I hear skype group, I'm down for a skype group.

I'm tis.nido