Cloud Training Advice

[ZeldaSwordman]

The video game club at my school is holding a charity tournament for a student who has had neuroblastoma since he was three. I'm entering and while most of the contestants should be fairly inexperienced, there are a couple people who have reliably beaten me. I play Cloud and would greatly appreciate some tips, especially against Shulk, Falcon, Zero Suit, Ike and Sheik.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Shulk is kind of a tricky matchup, he outspaces cloud but has much longer startup than him. With MA he is either faster in the ground or faster in the air but only one of them at a time, this means that you should avoid being on the ground when he has speed or being in the air while he has the jump monado. While hes in buster mode try to avoid getting hit as he has a decent combo game with it and can rack up an insane amount of damage. You dont need to worry about the smash monado until higher percents so thats just another waiting game. Hes also slightly heavier than you but that doesn't really matter. Play it safe and don't go for crazy **** unless you're sure you can land it

 

[ZeldaSwordman]

Shulk is kind of a tricky matchup, he outspaces cloud but has much longer startup than him. With MA he is either faster in the ground or faster in the air but only one of them at a time, this means that you should avoid being on the ground when he has speed or being in the air while he has the jump monado. While hes in buster mode try to avoid getting hit as he has a decent combo game with it and can rack up an insane amount of damage. You dont need to worry about the smash monado until higher percents so thats just another waiting game. Hes also slightly heavier than you but that doesn't really matter. Play it safe and don't go for crazy **** unless you're sure you can land it

Good to know. The funny thing is that out of the people that might be attending, I think only three or four people including me would be practicing for the actual tourney. Anything else on other fighters?

 

[ZeldaSwordman]

I also might be considering picking Marth back up. From what I've been hearing, Marth got gigantic buffs in the latest patch.

 

[Zanarkan]

Shulk and Ike are both somewhat tricky matchups for Cloud for most of the same reasons that Guavo has addressed. I personally think that Cloud can destroy C. Falcon, focus on out spacing him, and work on your punish game, Falcon being a fast faller can get comboed by Cloud pretty reliably. Gimping Falcon is easy with Cloud's Nair because Falcon's recovery is so predictable. The only trouble is dealing with his speed in Neutral, but like I said earlier just focus on spacing, remember that you have a sword and he doesn't. I also would try to refrain from over shielding, most falcons will look for that and go for a ton of dash grabs since his dash grab is really amazing. Jabs and short hop nairs are great to punish/stuff these.

The Cloud ZSS matchup is an interesting one, as every ZSS matchup it depends on her grabs. The nice thing is Cloud has some of the best punishes for missed grabs. Practice power shielding for her Neutral B, if you get hit with one of those you are almost guaranteed to get grabbed. You nair off stage is really good for dealing with her large number of recovery options, it comes out super quick and the hitbox is big and hits all around you this is great for catching her tether. If you see that the ZSS player is defaulting to tether for recovery don't be afraid to go out there and nair. Overall I think the matchup is even but slightly in ZSS's favor. Just don't get grabbed too many times and you should be fine. There is also a great video on how to deal with her boost kick killing off the top out of the up air strings. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQD6fPQXYwE) I would watch it.

Sheik is just an absolute ***** for Cloud, by far his worst matchup in my opinion. She can camp you with needles to stop you charging limit she can edge guard you super easily and she has tons of combos that work well on you. If the Sheik is super campy I would say you cold try to spam blade beam a little and it might help. I would also emphasize making great use of the limits that you do manage to get. One saving grace is that Sheik is very light and will die crazy early to finishing touch and cross slash, but all of her moves and approaches are super safe so you basically have to get a super hard read to get this. I don't really have any other good tips for this matchup other than practicing it, if you know the sheik player or any sheik players grind on the matchup a little bit. If you can watch the guy you will be facing that plays sheik before your match watch him a bit and see how he plays. Sheik is a character that can be played so many different ways and every player takes a different style when playing her. Watching a player before facing them will help give you an idea of what to expect.

I hope this helps and I wish you luck at your tournament! I think its great that you guys are doing a tourney for a good cause!

 

[ZeldaSwordman]

If you can watch the guy you will be facing that plays sheik before your match watch him a bit and see how he plays. Sheik is a character that can be played so many different ways and every player takes a different style when playing her. Watching a player before facing them will help give you an idea of what to expect.

The only chance I have at watching anybody else play is with them at school. The Shulk/Ike guy I play with at lunch. I've played with the Falcon a couple times but enough to know that he could be an obstacle. The ZSS/Sheik guy I have the least amount of opportunities to play him(Which sucks because I've only beaten him a handful of times.) None of us have been to formal tourneys. We are all freshman. I don't see any of these guys on Thursday at the earliest, the following Wednesday at the latest.(Which would be about a week before the tourney itself.)

 

[Guimartgon]

As mentioned before Shulk is an interesting one because he outranges you, but none of shulk's things are safe on run in shield(so that he lands right in front of you). also his nair, his best aerial is easy to perfect shield. So you can literally just run in, perfect shield most of his spacing options and catch his landing.

Falcon's pretty easy I think, he has a reason to go in, you don't cause you have a projectile and you have a down B to charge. Space him out, big sword beats muscular leg, pivot ftilt and things of the sort help when he is trying to approach you with nair and what not. SH Bair is also a really good tool to just say "no" to him a lot.

ZSS: ZSS is, for the most part, better falcon, I can't help too much because every ZSS player I've played has just been impatient and OOOH Nair! Paralyzer grab!/so I just space them out. I can't help if that ZSS has more brainpower than that.

Ike: one of cloud's easiest MUs, you have a bigger sword and faster frame data, just don't do any stupid approach and you should be fine. again, spacing Bair is godly here. Don't fall for any of his autocancels!.

Sheik: as said before, each sheik is different. I kinda like Cloud Sheik but it can be really grindy. Always keep needles in mind(so if possible play in somewhere with platforms). You could watch M2K play some sheiks and see where he screws up and what he does right. Nair is really good at not letting sheik go in. Try to meet her at a comfortable distance in air-air situations. Don't lose your patience if she stays grounded(again, another reason to pick platforms). If he uses needles a lot, try to see what his option out of charge is (He can shield, roll, needle fidget into an attack or run away, shield jump) and try to read what he is going to do out of charging needles and punish him for what he does

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

Sheik is just an absolute ***** for Cloud, by far his worst matchup in my opinion

l've heard that the match-up is almost even. Cloud can dtilt under the needles, from what l've heard, he can juggle Shiek almost as reliably as she can combo him. Juggles set up into FT if you catch the landing. lf the Shiek can't get you offstage, Cloud's certain to eventually kill her off. Offstage isn't as bad as you'd think for Cloud if you handle it well. CS to stall and (L)BB for stall and blocking edgeguards. A plethora of kill options are available at various percents (actually getting them is tricky, but it's worth noting). Cloud's decent frame-data with his absurd disjoints give you a pretty good onstage game. Of course, you're really squishy. Perfect for combo food and you're screwed if she hits you while you're offstage.

Very momentum based match-up on paper. Haven't had the pleasure of playing the match-up though. What Guimartgon said seems very worthy of writing down. The only way you're going to kill reliably is by either punishing a landing or reading them, but that's basic Cloud. Just a reminder.

 

[GHNeko]

Shiek v Cloud is a MU where you need R-Cloud and L-Cloud.

The ratio of what you play with vary a lot more in this MU than others, esp based on stage.

Large stages or stages where you can run around Shiek you'll probably find L-Cloud more useful since you can Limit Camp and wrack up damage faster with limit specials and also have room for getting punished since Shiek can combo L-Cloud easier.

Smaller stages, or Omega/FD stages (I'd probably put TnC in this group too) probably favor R-Cloud more than L-Cloud since you dont have as much room to run away and/or platforms to rely on. So being able to do more things in neutral is probably more important.

But typically I feel that R-Cloud until Shiek's in Kill Percents would be the general way to go and you just adjust which cloud to use based of the Shiek and stages.

 

[IsaacMole]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is R-Cloud and L-Cloud?

 

[Tisbomb]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is R-Cloud and L-Cloud?

regular cloud and limit break cloud