Closes at midnight!....Stages, Stock Counts, and Timer.

[Studstill]

Just hit all that apply to indicate the way you prefer to play Smash 64.

Timed means you would prefer to play on Timed mode instead of Stock, not that you want stock mode with a timer.

Don`t pick multiple stock count options, please. If you did then just comment picking one, please.

 

[Shears]

I think this is objectively a better poll because it gives more options to select from, however I don't see it changing results. Mostly because on stages, where is the line drawn? Top 1? Top 3? All that receive a vote?

 

[caneut]

1 vote for zebes and sectorz? obviously studstill. disregard everything above and lock thread pls.

 

[Studstill]

Honestly, Shears, I hadn`t decided nor was attempting to or even announcing authority on it. Simply making a far less, if not totally unbiased way to get the actual data. Data now, conclusions later! Thanks for voting so quickly!

 

[yOLORIN]

1 vote for zebes and sectorz? obviously studstill. disregard everything above and lock thread pls.

yeah because 1 vote is INSIXATIVE of a lot. You're an idiot. I voted for zebes because i think it is a legit counter pick.

 

[Shears]

I think the thread has some merit. In a way it could be seen as beating a dead horse but in another way it can be seen as a detailed opinion on everything in the game. When the results are in, if they differ from what you prefer and consider ideal, will you decide to conform?

You forgot to include items in the poll btw...

 

[Studstill]

Shears, didn`t want to complicate it, so I just put a week timer on it. Initial unbiased data collection, we`ll see how it goes.Maybe make a totally inclusive one after that week, or well, I just think we`ll reevaluate then. So much opposition to everything, didn`t want to paint a bigger target than necessary. Hit me up tonight if you have a half hour.

 

[Studstill]

You're an idiot. I voted for zebes because i think it is a legit counter pick.

Thanks for voting, Ducky! And for the explanation, but to be clear:
Vote your own way. You do not have to be able to defend Mushroom Kingdom to like it, or want it in a tournament. Just let everyone know how you prefer to play this game!

 

[The Star King]

Should be 10 minute timer, redo this poll. wut

 

[Shaya]

You aren't nagging me about them, and I will fulfill every reasonable request you make.
I don't ignore reports either.

If you want me to stop/clean a thread that is/was/has/could be derailed, I'll do so, don't add to the fire.

 

[caneut]

Looks like most of my vosts mattered ^^

 

[Shaya]

I'm glad to see that after a decade or so, with me probably mildly complaining about it for at least half that time, people are willing to play with timers and deal without the additional stock option rather than the alternative.
:3

 

[Studstill]

Whoa Shaya; supporting Timed! Although I`m glad you appreciated the addition, it was in the spirit of inclusion yet I was fearful of the results of that one, timed is gosh just awful. Hopefully this thing will get a lot more votes. Best case scenario is everyone.
edit: my bad on the double.

 

[Shaya]

Well I mean timer on stock mode 8 minutes or whatever. You could use the in game timer and count stocks, or use in game stocks and count time.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Every time the stage list comes up for Smash 64, I cry that without some sort of hack, it is impossible to play on Meta Crystal, Battlefield, or Final Destination.

 

[Studstill]

Is there a way to see the total number of people who took the poll so far?
So if it says 50% Hyrule and there are 20 votes for Hyrule, then 40 people cast at least one vote?

 

[BananaBolts]

I play without a timer in friendlies but with a timer when someone says they can/will beat me :3
I don't want to give someone the chance of camping me out to win

Edit: I like the 8 minute timer but I could see a 10 minute timer being necessary for stages other than DL, Congo, and Peach's (assuming 5 stocks)

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Every time the stage list comes up for Smash 64, I cry that without some sort of hack, it is impossible to play on Meta Crystal, Battlefield, or Final Destination.

The funny thing is that I would argue against Meta Crystal/BF due to the hilarious DI glitch on the map

 

[Studstill]

10 minute timer

Yeah I just picked 12, further from 8. Meh.

 

[Studstill]

Is this too blatant?

 

[BananaBolts]

Is this too blatant?

Needs more ambiguity. No one will fall for this if it isn't debatable enough.

 

[Shears]

I think the people have spoken, dreamland 5 stocks 8 minute timer.

 

[AthensHorseParty]

Petition Nintendo to do an updated Wii U VC mode with a stock timer option and access to Metal Cavern, BF, FD and cloudless Yoshi's (Or even if they just got rid of the far left one) and just let people ban stages. **** would be dope as ****.

 

[Studstill]

Is this too blatant?

I meant my bumping. I`d have really like to see more votes and @ Shears can draw his conclusions from an reasonably sized data pool. To me it looks like you guys have ignored a third to half or the players who enjoy Hyrule. But seriously, you draw me into commentary, I jsut want some data to move slightly more forward.
Take the poll.

 

[caneut]

Petition Nintendo to do an updated Wii U VC mode with a stock timer option and access to Metal Cavern, BF, FD and cloudless Yoshi's (Or even if they just got rid of the far left one) and just let people ban stages. **** would be dope as ****.

You mean, Nintendo make a game that might TAKE AWAY SELLS from their NEW game?

 

[Fireblaster]

To me it looks like you guys have ignored a third to half or the players who enjoy Hyrule..

It also means we're factoring in 2/3rds of the players that don't want hyrule.

 

[caneut]

i think 2/3 is a larger number than 1/3

 

[AthensHorseParty]

Hyrule wouldn't be a big deal at all if there was a timer on and people actually enforced the "losing player must approach" rule but it'd be kinda impractical without a dedicated judge on every single match.

 

[Shears]

I meant my bumping. I`d have really like to see more votes and @ Shears can draw his conclusions from an reasonably sized data pool. To me it looks like you guys have ignored a third to half or the players who enjoy Hyrule. But seriously, you draw me into commentary, I jsut want some data to move slightly more forward.
Take the poll.

When will the move forward begin? More than 2/3 majority does not want Hyrule. Why is the minority getting precedence? Womens rights only garnered 56 of the 81 senate votes, but it was still ratified into the constitution. Should women not have rights because less than 1/3 didn't want it? No, its about majority, not minority even if you happen to be part of the minority. Those 25 senators disagreed but shut their mouths and continued to live with the ways of the majority, much as the minority that favors Hyrule should do too. @jimmyjoe loves Hyrule, he even bought a shirt about it. He will ask to play on Hyrule all the time, but he isn't trying to turn the competitive ruleset upside down so he can get his way. He unhappily lives with it because the majority has decided. He will do what it takes to gentlemens Hyrule.

I also want to note that there should be different weights to people votes. You can't just say everyone who plays the game is entitled to a vote that is weighted the same as everyone else. It doesn't work that way anywhere. Not everyone who lives in the US has the right to vote. They need to have citizenship, which is different then having residency. There are people that reside on smashboards and in the 64 community, that doesn't make them a citizen with the right to vote in the community. I believe anyone can earn that right but not all votes can immediately be weighed equally. Consider I go out and get a bunch of random people who have claimed to play the game, to register accounts on SB just to vote for Mushroom Kingdom and then never contribute to the game or community ever again, but because Mushroom Kingdom is now the majority it would then be instituted as the default competitive stage. Is the problem now apparent? Votes shouldn't decide, votes by qualified people should.

 

[Fireblaster]

Hyrule wouldn't be a big deal at all if there was a timer on and people actually enforced the "losing player must approach" rule but it'd be kinda impractical without a dedicated judge on every single match.

That rule is impossible to enforce even with a judge because it is incredibly subjective and logically flawed.

 

[Studstill]

Well, David, there were multiple birds being hit with this stone:
1. The creation of a non-biased opinion poll on the game.
2. They exposure of the claims of 'we all voted and decided over the years and everyone agrees with these rules' as false.
3. The exposure of the claim of 'rules being determined by everyone and not just a few people' as false.

1. Success, almost, Dave you`re right, I should have put items. I`ll make another one tonight. I don`t see the problem with having everyone`s opinion on the record. To be clear, this has nothing to do with Apex 2015.
2. Success. Blatant success.
3. Roots of success. To wit:
This site has an echo chamber effect, exacerbated by how forums work in general. Just look above, if Fire is to be believed than there are no judges, objectivity is impossible, and we`d better just listen to him. This is silly. Quit saying everything you disagree with is logically flawed and then failing to ever try and prove said logical failings. Actually, guys, if you don`t have anything of substance I`d appreciate it just not being on my thread. Or maybe I`m missing the wisdom you are trying to dispense with the condescendingly fleeting:
"That rule is impossible to enforce even with a judge because it is incredibly subjective and logically flawed"
Note: Impossible is a different word from difficult. Much like identical doesn`t mean similar.

 

[Shears]

This thread proves that the current ruleset is also the one being currently voted on by the majority, which in turn proves that "we all voted and decided over the years and everyone agrees with these rules" is true. "rules being determined by everyone and not just a few people" is proven true by the thread and because it reflects the current ruleset it in turn also proves that the community wants what it currently has and when those rules were decided they were decided by a majority and not just a few people. Do you see that the results of the thread have not differed from the current point of view the community has subjected to you in the form of the current ruleset? This thread did not open up the community to what the rules should be, instead it opens you up to the rules the community thinks it should be.

I'm not against the conception of this thread, or the options available to vote on. I just want to affirm that this threads purpose is being served and that the ruleset discussion can cease. So, how do you interpret the results? What do you think (solely based off results of voting and not opinion) should be the legal stage? Stock count? Timer implementation?

Here is my interpretation as well as anyone who can read a poll and identify the larger numbers are the winners:

Stages: Dreamland (only one with majority vote)
Stocks: 5 stock (only one with majority vote)
Timer: Timer on Stock 8 minutes (only one with majority vote)

It is not coincidence that the options with majority votes are also the current ruleset.

 

[Studstill]

I`ll have you note that Dreamland does not equal Dreamland Only and that to interpret it as such corrupts any conclusion.
I see half the people that play this game and took the poll play Hyrule. There are no winners or losers, it`s an opinion poll. And I`m not saying that to dodge, I`m pleasantly surprised at the Hyrule numbers.
To be clear again, this is not a 'vote' just an opinion poll, and lol at trying to draw any conclusion from <50 people.
I`ll look at it when it`s over.
Edit: I thought I made that clear up there, my bad, I`m no longer interested in discussing rules or 'rulesets' (arrgh this newspeak). This has nothing to do with Apex 2015 or any ruleset debate. Just a survey.

 

[AthensHorseParty]

It is a little confusing though in that the poll doesn't allow for a distinction between neutral and counterpick stages. Also, it's not necessarily the most "democratic" voting system possible to give everybody one vote for a specific set of stages and then only allow stages that were picked by a majority of voters. An Instant Runoff system where players ranked stages in the order of preference would most likely result in votes that please the most people the most amount.

The reasons are pretty obvious when you think about this scenario:
It's likely that most people are going to vote for Dreamland because it's so neutral and widely used, but the results also clearly show that most people who voted picked multiple stages. In other words, the counter picks are "splitting" the votes to make it look like a majority of people don't want any of the other stages but this doesn't necessarily prove that the majority of voters want no other stages, if you see what I'm saying. I may have picked DL, CJ and Peache's but even if my personal set wasn't preferred by everyone, I might still be reasonably happy with a counter pick set that still includes some other stages, much more so than a DL only rule set.

If you want to learn more about this, I recommend checking out CGPGrey's channel on youtube and look for his series on voting systems. Super informative and easy to understand.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Extend the poll a week, I'll get the japanese to make accounts and vote

 

[BananaBolts]

Just hit all that apply to indicate the way you prefer to play Smash 64.

Timed means you would prefer to play on Timed mode instead of Stock, not that you want stock mode with a timer.

Don`t pick multiple stock count options, please. If you did then just comment picking one, please.

Just hit all that apply to indicate the way you prefer to play Smash 64.

I prefer to play Smash with most of the stages but I don't support all of the stages that I like to play on as viable tourney options. For example, Saffron City is a fun stage to me but I don't think it belongs in competitive play. To be fair, your first post is a bit ambiguous. "... the way you prefer to play Smash 64." Do you mean in friendlies? tournament? or just to have fun and screw around?

To be clear, I love most of the stages but I don't think that they all deserve a spot in tournaments.

 

[Fireblaster]

This site has an echo chamber effect, exacerbated by how forums work in general. Just look above, if Fire is to be believed than there are no judges, objectivity is impossible, and we`d better just listen to him. This is silly. Quit saying everything you disagree with is logically flawed and then failing to ever try and prove said logical failings. Actually, guys, if you don`t have anything of substance I`d appreciate it just not being on my thread. Or maybe I`m missing the wisdom you are trying to dispense with the condescendingly fleeting:
"That rule is impossible to enforce even with a judge because it is incredibly subjective and logically flawed"
Note: Impossible is a different word from difficult. Much like identical doesn`t mean similar.

Someone playing defensively cannot be objectively defined as stalling. Unless someone does a gamebreaking glitch that actually prevents the match from being played, it's safe to assume that players will do whatever it takes to win. If you try to define stalling, that is an incredibly blurry line as something simple can always be done to avoid it and therefore make the rule useless. For example:

RULE - No camping on the left edge of hyrule for longer than 3 minutes
Scenario - Whoever is camping there as kirby does a short hop bair onto the main floor and quickly runs back to the ledge every 2 minutes and 59 seconds. Rule avoided.

It is not a rule that can be defined with clarity and easy to enforce, making it very subjective.

"A ban must be enforceable, discrete, and warranted."
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned

"No stalling" is neither enforceable nor discrete.

 

[Studstill]

KARAJAN IS BACK BABY. WHAT~ WHAT

Steve, SKYPE ME BABY I MISS YOU.

 

[Cobrevolution]

I like playing all stages unless it's tourney.

 

[Annex]

that's quite bold
MK in 64 is more broken than MK in brawl