Clones becoming skins

[aba1]

I am not sure if this has ever really come up before but I had the idea that it would be really cool that if rather than straight up removing clones they were just made into clones. People are always saying how they miss Dr.Mario or Roy etc. Wouldn't it be great if they were just made into skins so we can play as the characters but they won't have to take up slots keeping the character count up.

Just a idea what do you guys think?

 

[Barbasol]

It had been brought up before, and quite frankly, I think it could make an awesome feature. If there was an unlock system like, play 250 games with X, or clear a characters classic and adventure modes, there could be an awesome set of costumes.

Mario - Dr. Mario
Luigi - Luigi w/ Poltergeist
Peach - Wedding Dress Peach
Bowser - Dry Bowser
Yoshi - Boshi Outfit

Ike - Vanguard Ike

Link - Fierce Deity Link

 

[Vintage Creep]

I just talked mostly about alt costumes in the general roster discussion topic. I totally agree with this.

 

[Qlaw]

for characters like Roy and Falco. No. They aren't the same at all and just need to be further removed from the clone aspect. But, it would be cool to have toon link and ylink costumes. or tp link and ss link

 

[Frostwraith]

this is a much discussed topic. But Roy and Falco need to be modified further to become distinct characters, however I much agree with this idea.

Such possibilities are:

[COLLAPSE="Click to see"]Mario -> Dr. Mario
Neutral B would change the fireballs to his Megavitamins. The move stays the same, sans visible fire effect.

Luigi -> Mr. L
Just a set of costumes with the reversed L and the mask.

Peach -> Daisy
Voice clip swap, along with changes in the heart effects, replacing with flowery effects, Toad could be replaced with a flower counter, by shooting pollen instead of spores.

Bowser -> Dry Bowser
Different sound effects and slightly changed voice (with a echoing, ghostly effect), blue flames instead of red flames during neutral B, as well as a new Dry Giga Bowser.

For both Peach and Bowser, feature their wedding versions from Super Paper Mario.

Link -> Fierce Deity Link
The Final Smash's Triforce effect is replaced by a blue aura surrounding the enemy.

Link -> Dark Link
Deeper voice and a dark Triforce effect during Final Smash.

Ganondorf -> Toon Ganondorf
Would swap his voice to voice clips from his appearence in Wind Waker.

Toon Link -> Shadow Link / Dark Toon Link
See Link above.

Pit -> Dark Pit
Voice clip swap.

Ice Climbers -> Reverse lead
Not a costume, per se, but the option to play as Nana instead of Popo, without switching their colors.

Meta Knight -> Galacta Knight
Perhaps a voice swap, as well? Wouldn't be much different. On a side note, Dark Meta Knight could appear as one of the color swaps for Meta Knight.

Olimar -> Louie / President / Pikmin 3 captains
Obviously. Complete with possible voice swaps, as well.

Fox -> James McCloud
Another easy one. Add the sunglasses... and perhaps a different voice as well?

Capt. Falcon -> Blood Falcon
Replaces the falcon design in his helmet to a Blood Falcon's skull design. Color swaps would be the same as original Falcon, perhaps some voice samples would be replaced, such as taunts and Final Smash, to match the replacement of the Blue Falcon with the Blood Hawk.

Pikachu -> Female Pikachu
Adds the heart-shaped tail, in addition to more feminine accessories as color swaps.

Pokémon Trainer -> Female Trainer
Replace Red with Leaf.

Marth -> Alm, Sigrud, Celice, Leaf and Masked Marth
They are really similar to each another, so it would work.

Ike -> Lord Ike from PoR, Hero and Vanguard Ike from RD, Greil and Paris
Featuring all of his looks as well as relatives.

Roy -> Eliwood
Eliwood is Roy's father and has a very similar appearence, so why not?

Ness -> Ninten
To easily represent the original Mother. Could be complete with new voice as well.

Lucas -> Claus
Obviously, no?[/COLLAPSE]

And that's it for the characters already appearing in Smash. This would also work for potential newcomers such as Isaac from Golden Sun to offer a Matthew (his son) alternate.

 

[Qlaw]

Roy -> Eliwood
Eliwood is Roy's father and has a very similar appearence, so why not?

at first i was all "hell yes" but, since Roy seems to be older(in the expansion of the new fe), i'd say just give him eliwoods armour/sword. cause they do look VERY much alike.

Unless, that's what you meant

 

[Gene]

this is a much discussed topic. But Roy and Falco need to be modified further to become distinct characters, however I much agree with this idea.

Such possibilities are:

[COLLAPSE="Click to see"]Mario -> Dr. Mario
Neutral B would change the fireballs to his Megavitamins. The move stays the same, sans visible fire effect.

Luigi -> Mr. L
Just a set of costumes with the reversed L and the mask.

Peach -> Daisy
Voice clip swap, along with changes in the heart effects, replacing with flowery effects, Toad could be replaced with a flower counter, by shooting pollen instead of spores.

Bowser -> Dry Bowser
Different sound effects and slightly changed voice (with a echoing, ghostly effect), blue flames instead of red flames during neutral B, as well as a new Dry Giga Bowser.

For both Peach and Bowser, feature their wedding versions from Super Paper Mario.

Link -> Fierce Deity Link
The Final Smash's Triforce effect is replaced by a blue aura surrounding the enemy.

Link -> Dark Link
Deeper voice and a dark Triforce effect during Final Smash.

Ganondorf -> Toon Ganondorf
Would swap his voice to voice clips from his appearence in Wind Waker.

Toon Link -> Shadow Link / Dark Toon Link
See Link above.

Pit -> Dark Pit
Voice clip swap.

Ice Climbers -> Reverse lead
Not a costume, per se, but the option to play as Nana instead of Popo, without switching their colors.

Meta Knight -> Galacta Knight
Perhaps a voice swap, as well? Wouldn't be much different. On a side note, Dark Meta Knight could appear as one of the color swaps for Meta Knight.

Olimar -> Louie / President / Pikmin 3 captains
Obviously. Complete with possible voice swaps, as well.

Fox -> James McCloud
Another easy one. Add the sunglasses... and perhaps a different voice as well?

Capt. Falcon -> Blood Falcon
Replaces the falcon design in his helmet to a Blood Falcon's skull design. Color swaps would be the same as original Falcon, perhaps some voice samples would be replaced, such as taunts and Final Smash, to match the replacement of the Blue Falcon with the Blood Hawk.

Pikachu -> Female Pikachu
Adds the heart-shaped tail, in addition to more feminine accessories as color swaps.

Pokémon Trainer -> Female Trainer
Replace Red with Leaf.

Marth -> Alm, Sigrud, Celice, Leaf and Masked Marth
They are really similar to each another, so it would work.

Ike -> Lord Ike from PoR, Hero and Vanguard Ike from RD, Greil and Paris
Featuring all of his looks as well as relatives.

Roy -> Eliwood
Eliwood is Roy's father and has a very similar appearence, so why not?

Ness -> Ninten
To easily represent the original Mother. Could be complete with new voice as well.

Lucas -> Claus
Obviously, no?[/COLLAPSE]

And that's it for the characters already appearing in Smash. This would also work for potential newcomers such as Isaac from Golden Sun to offer a Matthew (his son) alternate.

I can agree with this.

 

[3Bismyname]

Mario= Dr. Mario
Luigi= Masked L
Peach= Rosalina
Bowser= Dry Bones Bowser
Link= Goat Herder Link
Zelda= Skyward Sword Zelda
Ganandorf= Toon Ganandorf
Kirby= Bandana Kirby, Waddle Dee
King Deedeedee= Masked Deedeedee
Meta Knight= Galacta Knight
Fox= Assault Fox
Falco= Assault Falco
Pit= Armored pit
Pikachu= Raichu or Pichu
Pokemon Trainer= Female Trainer or Blue
Jigglypuff= Igglybuff
Olimar= Louie, Mayor or if theres any new characters in the next one
Donkey Kong= Robo Donkey Kong(from Mario vs Donkey Kong)
Marth= Masked Marth
Ness= Lucas
Sonic= Shadow (Sorry Shadow fans)
Snake= Old Snake

that's all i got for now

 

[Shirekeldeo7]

I'd rather have clones because.young link is awesome


Posted from Smashboards.com App for Android

 

[Dark Phazon]

Well i guess we will finally see if all those chars got scrapped in the past smashes really did get scrapped? Or just that there wasent time to add them.

If they do indeed bring back every single char then it means the game is directed for completion.

If anything im more excited to see what direction they have taken the game too.



I wanna know this about Sm4sh i will look ofc only after a year or more after game.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/15390

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'd rather have clones because.young link is awesome


Posted from Smashboards.com App for Android

Why do we need two links?

 

[kikaru]

I'd rather have clones because.young link is awesome


Posted from Smashboards.com App for Android

Clone characters simply choke up the entire roster as well as the odds of other characters who are deserving of a character spot.


The problems I can see with skin-swapping characters are:
We're condensing potentially over 30 additional characters or more into a roster of 35-40 technically making 65-70 different characters playable.
Newer players who are not completely familiar with every Nintendo character might get confused as to who the skin-swapped character is analogous to. I also feel that if we're adding entire characters as skins is simply an excuse to include characters with lesser potential.

I can definitely see accessories and costumes playing a large part in how we customize our characters and how simple 'skins' such as Dr. Mario and Dry Bowser would work very well as they are the same person/persona as Mario and Bowser. We could get a winged Yoshi, Toon Ganondorf, and even Old Snake but I feel that forcing an entirely different character into a skin isn't the right way to approach this.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Clone characters simply choke up the entire roster as well as the odds of other characters who are deserving of a character spot.


The problems I can see with skin-swapping characters are:
We're condensing potentially over 30 additional characters or more into a roster of 35-40 technically making 65-70 different characters playable.
Newer players who are not completely familiar with every Nintendo character might get confused as to who the skin-swapped character is analogous to. I also feel that if we're adding entire characters as skins is simply an excuse to include characters with lesser potential.

I can definitely see accessories and costumes playing a large part in how we customize our characters and how simple 'skins' such as Dr. Mario and Dry Bowser would work very well as they are the same person/persona as Mario and Bowser. We could get a winged Yoshi, Toon Ganondorf, and even Old Snake but I feel that forcing an entirely different character into a skin isn't the right way to approach this.

I Agree...

 

[Metal_Sonic]

there Alt skins/costumes could be DLC.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Well Sakurai's Reason/Excuse why brawl didnt have DLC was because the Wii didnt have a Hardrive.

But now the WiiU has loads of internal memory and you can use memory devices on it.

Do you think Sm4sh WiiU has a more chance of having DLC then Brawl?

 

[Metal_Sonic]

yeah even the 3ds.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't get what people in the Smash community have against clones. There aren't that many(as of Bralw, there are only about 5), and each of them do more than enough to differentiate themselves from their "originals."

The only clone character, IMO, that you could justify becoming an alt. costume for another character would be Doctor Mario, and even then, most people who want Doc wouldn't be happy about it. All of the other "clones" are more than deserving to have their own spot on the roster.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I don't get what people in the Smash community have against clones. There aren't that many(as of Bralw, there are only about 5), and each of them do more than enough to differentiate themselves from their "originals."

The only clone character, IMO, that you could justify becoming an alt. costume for another character would be Doctor Mario, and even then, most people who want Doc wouldn't be happy about it. All of the other "clones" are more than deserving to have their own spot on the roster.

Do you have faith in the game?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Do you have faith in the game?

I don't understand the question. Do you mean do I think it will be good? I'm not sure. I'll probably enjoy it at least for a little while, but until I get more details about the gameplay, I'm not sure.

Not sure what this has to do with me not hating clones, though.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I don't understand the question. Do you mean do I think it will be good? I'm not sure. I'll probably enjoy it at least for a little while, but until I get more details about the gameplay, I'm not sure.

Not sure what this has to do with me not hating clones, though.

Basicly do you think it will be better then Brawl?

I should have said..Sorry.

 

[kikaru]

I don't get what people in the Smash community have against clones. There aren't that many(as of Bralw, there are only about 5), and each of them do more than enough to differentiate themselves from their "originals."

The only clone character, IMO, that you could justify becoming an alt. costume for another character would be Doctor Mario, and even then, most people who want Doc wouldn't be happy about it. All of the other "clones" are more than deserving to have their own spot on the roster.

Clones are typically a lighter/heavier version of a character with some knock-back gimmick in their moveset. They also choke up the roster by limiting the overall potential of a series and bring almost nothing unique to the table other than simple character.

Edit: Future clones are not deserving of a spot in the next Smash. Period. Roy does not deserve a spot if he is going to function the same as Marth again. We'd be better off with Hector or Krom. Same goes for Pichu, I'd rather see the inclusion of Mewtwo, Zoroark, or Victini. Even if Nintendo announced something like, "Shulk is a newcomer and has the exact same moveset as Marth" I can guarantee fans will be pissed because we have, yet again, another character with enormous potential that is wasted.

Toon Link himself had more than enough items throughout his games to differentiate from Link. We could've seen the inclusion of the Gust Jar, Deku Leaf, or Mole Mitts however he became yet another clone who although was lighter and had knock back gimmicks, was essentially the same damn thing as Link. Toon Link had the potential but failed to follow through.

The same can be said with Ganondorf. The only thing from his moveset that came from his games was the purple aura which is present in Ocarina of Time. All of his moves are borrowed and almost none of them actually reflects his moveset in Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess. He could have used energy balls as well as a sword but again, we have wasted potential. Although I would love for both of these guys to stay, some revisions need to be done.

Basically we want to see beloved characters have a unique fighting style in Smash and not be some knock-off of another character.

As far as the skin-swapping idea goes I think we can extend it further than Dr. Mario. The thing is that Dr. Mario and Mario are the SAME character in different outfits. The same can be said with Dry Bowser and Bowser and Old Snake and Young Snake. As long as the skin doesn't change the character it should be fine. An example such as Shadow being a skin for Sonic would cross the line as they are two different characters entirely.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Clones are typically a lighter/heavier version of a character with some knock-back gimmick in their moveset. They also choke up the roster by limiting the overall potential of a series and bring almost nothing unique to the table other than simple character.

I fail to see how this is inherentley a bad thing. What if I don't like character X because he feels slow and heavy, but would totally main him if he were lighter and faster?

Clones are not deserving of a spot. Period. Roy does not deserve a spot if he functions the same as Marth. We'd be better off with Hector or Krom.

Roy does NOT function the same as Marth. He has the whole 'fire sword' thing, blus his sweetspots are different. Have you even played the game or looked at their moves at all?

Also, funny you should bring up Hector: He's almost guarunteed to play similarily to Ike, since there's not much differentce functionally between an axe and a big, heavy sword.

Toon Link himself had more than enough items throughout his games to differentiate from Link. We could've seen the inclusion of the Gust Jar, Deku Leaf, or Mole Mitts however he became yet another clone who although was lighter and had knock back gimmicks, was essentially the same damn thing as Link. Toon Link had the potential but failed to follow through.

I wouldn't want to play as that Toon Link though. He sounds dumb and gimmicky. I lime him as a smaller, faster, lighter Link. There's other things that could be done to differentiate him from Link him without making him feel overly gimmicky.

The same can be said with Ganondorf. The only thing from his moveset that came from his games was the purple aura which is present in Ocarina of Time. All of his moves are borrowed and almost none of them actually reflects his moveset in Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess. He could have used energy balls as well as a sword but again, we have wasted potential. Although I would love for both of these guys to stay, some revisions need to be done.

I half agree with you. I think the best solutions for Ganondorf would be either to let him pick between his old "clone" moveset and a new one, or give him a stance system where he could switch between the two.

 

[Mic_128]

Clone characters simply choke up the entire roster as well as the odds of other characters who are deserving of a character spot.

You are aware that they're last minute additions, right? In Brawl though, the clones from Melee had all been (sigh) 'Luigi-fied', so their movesets were much more different.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You are aware that they're last minute additions, right? In Brawl though, the clones from Melee had all been (sigh) 'Luigi-fied', so their movesets were much more different.

Yeah, that's the other thing(s). Clones are usually added at the last minute so that the roster can be padded with little effort. And most of the alleged clones in Brawl are very different from their "originals".

 

[Dark Phazon]

I Think its not the characters that should be bashed its the way Nintendo makes those characters suck they portray them in a horrible way.

 

[Mic_128]

I Think its not the characters that should be bashed its the way Nintendo makes those characters suck they portray them in a horrible way.

Outside of Roy and Pichu (The latter who was made bad on purpose as a challenge character (see Servebot in MvC2)) clones have all been close, if not better than their original counterpart.

 

[kikaru]

I fail to see how this is inherentley a bad thing. What if I don't like character X because he feels slow and heavy, but would totally main him if he were lighter and faster?

Personally I feel that the inclusion of new clones (Like the Shulk example I stated earlier) takes away from their overall uniqueness despite being a lighter or heavier version of someone else. And the inclusion of Bowser Jr. and Rosalina as clones of Bowser and Peach would clutter up the roster and leave less room for candidates such as Isaac, Lloyd Irving, etc given that we won't see a large expansion of the roster. As far as current clones go I felt that they could have been portrayed them better and play a bit more differently rather than as faster and slower versions of others such as Ganondorf and Toon Link.

Roy does NOT function the same as Marth. He has the whole 'fire sword' thing, blus his sweetspots are different. Have you even played the game or looked at their moves at all?

Different knock back mechanics. Just because Roy uses a fire element doesn't change the fact that his specials, aerials, grabs, and normal attacks are all the same as Marth's except slightly slower and stronger.

Also, funny you should bring up Hector: He's almost guarunteed to play similarily to Ike, since there's not much differentce functionally between an axe and a big, heavy sword.

No. There is no guarantee that Hector will have the same moves and functionality as Ike if he makes the cut. Hector can have different specials, aerials, and normals than Ike. Hector's B neutral doesn't have to be Eruption and his B Up doesn't have to be the same as Aether. etc. etc.

I wouldn't want to play as that Toon Link though. He sounds dumb and gimmicky. I lime him as a smaller, faster, lighter Link. There's other things that could be done to differentiate him from Link him without making him feel overly gimmicky.

There are many different things to help differentiate Toon Link from Link that I personally felt Brawl could have executed better. The Mole Mitts, Gust Jar, and Deku Leaf were just a few simple suggestions out of thousands of possibilities.

I half agree with you. I think the best solutions for Ganondorf would be either to let him pick between his old "clone" moveset and a new one, or give him a stance system where he could switch between the two.

A stance mechanic would be a very interesting idea indeed. Though this scratches the surface, a melee stance and a magic stance would actually make Ganondorf pretty awesome.

 

[kikaru]

You are aware that they're last minute additions, right? In Brawl though, the clones from Melee had all been (sigh) 'Luigi-fied', so their movesets were much more different.

Yes I know, I should have clarified 'future clones.' I wasn't trying to say that Roy didn't deserve a spot in Melee regardless if it was last minute or not, just that if Roy were to make into the next Smash I would like to see a more unique moveset. Sorry about that.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I still don't see why Roy should return. It's not like he had a game released internationally

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Different knock back mechanics. Just because Roy uses a fire element doesn't change the fact that his specials, aerials, grabs, and normal attacks are all the same as Marth's except slightly slower and stronger.

Except they aren't slower, or usually that much stronger. You're oversimplifying the differences between the two.

No. There is no guarantee that Hector will have the same moves and functionality as Ike if he makes the cut. Hector can have different specials, aerials, and normals than Ike. Hector's B neutral doesn't have to be Eruption and his B Up doesn't have to be the same as Aether. etc. etc.

But they'd still be two kinda slow guys swinging a big, heavy bladed weapon. Even if their animations might not be the same, I'd still say the two would feel pretty damn similar.

There are many different things to help differentiate Toon Link from Link that I personally felt Brawl could have executed better. The Mole Mitts, Gust Jar, and Deku Leaf were just a few simple suggestions out of thousands of possibilities.

As I said, those would feel too gimmicky for my tastes. IMO, Toonie should have a mobile grounded ^B, the ability to switch between different types of arrows for his nB, his P:M f-Smash, and YLink's multi-hit bombs. That would be enough for me IMO.

A stance mechanic would be a very interesting idea indeed. Though this scratches the surface, a melee stance and a magic stance would actually make Ganondorf pretty awesome.

Well, I'm glad at least that there's someone who agrees with me on that point.

Edit:

I still don't see why Roy should return. It's not like he had a game released internationally

Neither did Marth at the time of Melee or Brawl, nor did Lucas. "His game wasn't released internationally" is a crap excuse for why he shouldn't return.

Edit: Also, he cameod in FE7, so technically he did.

 

[3Bismyname]

I still don't see why Roy should return. It's not like he had a game released internationally

yeah i don't see any need for his return either. I wasn't much of a fan of him in Melee and I find his character less interesting than a lot of other Fire Emblem characters

 

[SmashShadow]

The only characters I'd like this for are the ones scrapped in melee(excluding Roy) and Tink. I don't really want a whole bunch of characters that aren't versions of that character as skins as to me it feels like the character that didn't make it in got short-changed and takes away from the All-Star feeling of Smash. Besides, clone characters had differences in their the way their moveset works which is something that I couldn't see implementing for a wide variety of skins on the roster.

Alternate Costumes are one thing but skins with alternate movesets(i.e. Doc Mario) are another.

 

[Dark Phazon]

The only returning chars i want are
*1.* MEWTWO !
2. Roy (but needs to be changed from Marth more)

Like Make Roy stronger But Marth Faster.

Like we all thought it was...

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Clone characters simply choke up the entire roster as well as the odds of other characters who are deserving of a character spot.


The problems I can see with skin-swapping characters are:
We're condensing potentially over 30 additional characters or more into a roster of 35-40 technically making 65-70 different characters playable.
Newer players who are not completely familiar with every Nintendo character might get confused as to who the skin-swapped character is analogous to. I also feel that if we're adding entire characters as skins is simply an excuse to include characters with lesser potential.

I can definitely see accessories and costumes playing a large part in how we customize our characters and how simple 'skins' such as Dr. Mario and Dry Bowser would work very well as they are the same person/persona as Mario and Bowser. We could get a winged Yoshi, Toon Ganondorf, and even Old Snake but I feel that forcing an entirely different character into a skin isn't the right way to approach this.

I agree too.
It would be more sensefull to add an alt pattern that just mimics the colour scheme of another char, the same way Captain Falcon has the colour scheme of Jody Summers as alt wont pattern.
This way the newbies wont get confused and the Nintendo fans can recognize the mention.
So Peach might have the colour scheme of Rosalina, hair hue included, but not her hair forelock, the same way she has just the colour scheme of Daisy.
I would also purpose them to give her reddish hair (like her NES version) within the white dress, and brunette hair and strong red lips (like Pauline) within the red dress.
Same for Sonic with Shadow's, Silver's and even Amy's colours.

 

[Pyra]

I like colorswapped versions of characters if the character is pretty much the same without added stuff. Peach to Daisy is a good example. Costumes would be cool to change a character's model slightly, like Mario to Dr. Mario.

Sonic-Shadow and bowser-Dry Bowser would be color swaps, though the latter will be quite an intense one.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If they want it to look any good, they'd have to change a lot more than the colors to make Bowser into Dry Bowser