Clash Tournaments' 1v1 Smash 4 videos look very promising.

[Mithost]

You can a playlist of them here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlIHVxA7UoL1b9OwOj4Ci13oWKu8KFb9N

I suggest you watch them all, but the main event is the Greninja (Chibo) vs. Pikachu (Doom) video. It's a pretty fast paced fight that uses the new ledge mechanics, a few Day 1 'combos', and some nice overall movement play. It's not perfect, but it's looking pretty good so far. The players didn't have much time with the game and the game is obviously not finished, but this is looking to be a pretty good game if the few minor things get tweaked (grabs, dashes, and aerials)

 

[Ulevo]

I'm calling it now that Pikachu is going to be high/top tier in this game if nothing changes prior to release. That is all.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

I'm calling it now that Pikachu is going to be high/top tier in this game if nothing changes prior to release. That is all.

Indeed he looks good. Greninja looks really good as well.

 

[HeroMystic]

After watching those 1v1 matches, I can say I like where it's going. If they get rid of that awful landing lag then Smash 4 will be a solid competitive game.

 

[Ace76]

What "day 1 combos" did you see? Please post a time stamp. I saw pikachu's up air and up tilt fail to combo, and nearly every follow up get air dodged out of. The only thing I saw work was a fair into grab, and with the new aerial lag there's no way that was a true combo.
Also making judgments on good characters from pre release videos with items probably won't end in an accurate assessment.

 

[Ulevo]

What "day 1 combos" did you see? Please post a time stamp. I saw pikachu's up air and up tilt fail to combo, and nearly every follow up get air dodged out of. The only thing I saw work was a fair into grab, and with the new aerial lag there's no way that was a true combo.
Also making judgments on good characters from pre release videos with items probably won't end in an accurate assessment.

The reasons for my assessment were simple. Pikachu has little lag on his aerials. In fact, I'm pretty sure he has legitimate combos off of them, even from landed aerials. He has a spammable projectile, along with good mobility and good recovery, like usual. His KO potential is fine. And more importantly, his moves can't be SDI'd out of anymore. To me he's looking better than most characters, and we don't even know if some of his AT's are in still, like his QAC.

Characters like Greninja look fast, but I'm not sold on that alone. Sonic was fast in Brawl too, with similar assets, and was still a terrible character. He could be great though.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

http://youtu.be/wjbNBMOuNvE

1:15-1:25

There are two very distinct moments that appear as though Marth is dash dancing. I thought everyone was complaining to high heaven post-e3 that dash dancing was gone?

Is that something else and I'm just looking at it wrong?

 

[thesage]

Good footage. Thanks for the link.

That's brawl style dashdancing which is not nearly as useful as the dashdancing found in melee. You only stay in place so you can't weave in and out of an opponent's attack zone.

 

[DaDavid]

http://youtu.be/wjbNBMOuNvE

1:15-1:25

There are two very distinct moments that appear as though Marth is dash dancing. I thought everyone was complaining to high heaven post-e3 that dash dancing was gone?

Is that something else and I'm just looking at it wrong?

It's there, but it's obviously much tougher to do. Probably to the point that it's not really practical is my guess.

This is my favorite Smash 4 footage out there, it really does show the game as it can be played at a faster pace than what Zero showed us. Hell those Zero Suit Samus matches showed a MUCH different style of play with the same damn character.

 

[NoiseHERO]

As someone that has more fun with this series 1 v 1 because I have terrible eyesight and lose focus horribly with more than 2 players on screen so I just don't try at all and it's barely fun unless I can abuse items.

And as someone planning to main megaman(favorite game series) I'm liking what I'm seeing from these megamang matches in the group matches he looked ehn, but 1 on 1 he looks super fun to play as. actually this game looks super fun 1v1 in general, especially compared to brawl imo.

 

[Beats]

There are two very distinct moments that appear as though Marth is dash dancing. I thought everyone was complaining to high heaven post-e3 that dash dancing was gone?

Is that something else and I'm just looking at it wrong?

No, the complaint is that dash dancing is pretty much functionally useless, since you're only staying in one spot. This of course may change from demo to release, but as of right now it isn't really considered proper dash dancing

 

[HeroMystic]

http://youtu.be/wjbNBMOuNvE

1:15-1:25

There are two very distinct moments that appear as though Marth is dash dancing. I thought everyone was complaining to high heaven post-e3 that dash dancing was gone?

Is that something else and I'm just looking at it wrong?

Look at the distance he's covering. It's incredibly short and isn't useful for baiting. This is unlike in Melee/P:M where you can cover some territory. Check a Project: M video and you'll see the difference.

 

[Ace76]

http://youtu.be/wjbNBMOuNvE

1:15-1:25

There are two very distinct moments that appear as though Marth is dash dancing. I thought everyone was complaining to high heaven post-e3 that dash dancing was gone?

Is that something else and I'm just looking at it wrong?

Yes you can preform a dash dance, but its the brawl iteration of dash dancing. The shorter initial dash animation not only makes it harder to execute, but a lot more pointless to attempt. Its not useful for spacing purposes because of how short it is, and won't allow for any feints leading to whiff punishes. It might as well be aesthetic as it doesn't provide in any more effective movement option then walking.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

Only thing I saw in that Pikachu vs. Greninja video was both players getting killed and constantly avoiding items. The level of skill obviously isn't very high either so we're not getting much out of these.

 

[DaDavid]

Only thing I saw in that Pikachu vs. Greninja video was both players getting killed and constantly avoiding items. The level of skill obviously isn't very high either so we're not getting much out of these.

We or you? Because we're honestly getting a decent bit of info here, especially if we hold it up against all the claims that came out after the invitational and Smash Fest.

For example, there's a few instances where you can clearly see that (had they been more ready for it/had more practice) they could have followed up on throws; something that many people were claiming is impossible.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Does look very promising. I'm very happy.

As long as they can make it so it's hard to camp, get some dash dancing, and the removal of some aerial landing lag, I think we are golden.

 

[Ace76]

We or you? Because we're honestly getting a decent bit of info here, especially if we hold it up against all the claims that came out after the invitational and Smash Fest.

For example, there's a few instances where you can clearly see that (had they been more ready for it/had more practice) they could have followed up on throws; something that many people were claiming is impossible.

I completely disagree. Following up a throw doesn't take an intense amount of practice especially considering the players in these videos are quite versed in every smash game. They also have played more then several matches. This game doesn't have much hitstun that is something stated by some of the most skilled smashers on the planet. Its not difficult to full hop or shot hop into an aerial after a throw.

 

[thesage]

Throws have a weird endlag to them in this game. It was quite jarring and noticeable, unlike the rest of the gameplay. I would be surprised if it was in the final product of the game. You can follow up after throws but it feels very weird. That's what I got from playing Marth in the invitational. I was able to set up some u-throw uair chains.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I keep seeing it's because Greninja and Pikachu's fast movement and aerial attacks having little landing lag compared to rest characters which I remember looking like they're gonna be sluggish and not able to control their strings like in Brawl. It might just be me though...

 

[SKM_NeoN]

We or you? Because we're honestly getting a decent bit of info here, especially if we hold it up against all the claims that came out after the invitational and Smash Fest.

For example, there's a few instances where you can clearly see that (had they been more ready for it/had more practice) they could have followed up on throws; something that many people were claiming is impossible.

If Hbox can't do it I have my doubts about your claim. And for all this "info" we're getting I'm not seeing any particularly enlightening comments. The only thing I'm getting out of these is pretty much what I already knew; Ridiculous landing lag, no edge game, and questionable knockback on attacks.

 

[Lugubrious]

Bowser vs Zero Suit match and Wii Fit vs Zero Suit match were pretty nice. Noticed for the first time Bowser's improved fire and the fact that Wii Fit's jab combo buries the opponent.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Greninja is an absolute blast to watch, he looks like he actually has decent combo potential, and his speed is just great.

I'm looking forward to see how the final product is going to play, less landing lag and better dash dancing would work wonders for this game.

 

[xerui]

After watching those 1v1 matches, I can say I like where it's going. If they get rid of that awful landing lag then Smash 4 will be a solid competitive game.

^^^ This.

I mentioned it in the other thread, but the aerial landing lag is a huge issue at the moment. The characters feel unique, movement speed is increased, and the roster should (hopefully) be the most balanced we've seen - the issue right now is that the game is being held back by the landing lag.

If this gets a major reduction, the game has a lot of potential.

 

[xerui]

Characters like Greninja look fast, but I'm not sold on that alone. Sonic was fast in Brawl too, with similar assets, and was still a terrible character. He could be great though.

Greninja's movement is beautifully fast, but his landing lag is atrocious, especially on his down A aerial attack.

 

[D-idara]

I remember someone stating on the gameplay thread that this build was compiled before the Direct, because of Megaman's Final Smash looking less detailed and visually impressive here.

 

[Mithost]

I remember someone stating on the gameplay thread that this build was compiled before the Direct, because of Megaman's Final Smash looking less detailed and visually impressive here.

Megaman's Final Smash crashed a few of the E3 setups, and it reportedly crashed when the invitational players were practicing (Can't confirm, I think KDJ talked about it in his Q&A). They probably did a quick fix on the Best Buy build which required it to look a little different.

 

[Renji64]

I hope this game turns out good...as a person who didn't enjoy brawl hard for me to be hyped.

 

[Weeman]

After watching thiese i have to say that the main problems i see are:

1. Long landing lag for most aerials, and no way to L-cancel
2. Knockback being kinda messed up, high knockback for many regular attacks and tilts at low %, and not high enough knockback for some smash attacks even at high %
3. Dash dancing is useless

I hope they fix this, even if this is not melee it can still be a more offesnsive based game since hitstun is back and the speed seems to be in the middle of both games.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

What "day 1 combos" did you see? Please post a time stamp. I saw pikachu's up air and up tilt fail to combo, and nearly every follow up get air dodged out of. The only thing I saw work was a fair into grab, and with the new aerial lag there's no way that was a true combo.
Also making judgments on good characters from pre release videos with items probably won't end in an accurate assessment.

This looked pretty legit.

And if it wasn't, I'm not sure what the Marth really could've done after that Fair.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

This gameplay footage seems more promising than the 1v1s during the invitational. I think the game is close to having long-lasting competitive potential--there are just a few easily-fixable problems in the current build that are holding it back and need to be changed.

Just some minor changes such as reduced landing lag on aerials, reduced lag after throwing a grabbed opponent, and better movement options (a longer initial dash animation would go a long way) could definitely result in a seriously competitive game. I really feel confident that the final build of the game (at least the Wii U version) will have these kinds of changes, enabling both casual and competitive players to easily pick up the game and love it.

 

[Neoleo21]

Quite simply, this is a demo build, usually these things don't have lots of time thrown into them, we can gauge a general feel for the game, but some aspects could be changing as we speak. One of the odd things I noticed was how inconsistent the landing lag was for numerous characters, this could be the result of the demo, or they have not ironed out the details everywhere. also, several treehouse reps have commented that they like certain characters more in another build of the game, which further cements that the demo may have been either a seperate production like brawl or a early build that was modified into a demo, based on the fact that crashes have occured with demos, it is likely the latter.

 

[Dr. Krumm]

For a demo it looks very promising, can't wait till the full game is released. Thanks for the link!

 

[VictoriaYr]

Thanks for sharing this playlist. I had a hard time watching the multitude of FFA matches because too much goes on at once.

 

[Mithost]

Quite simply, this is a demo build, usually these things don't have lots of time thrown into them, we can gauge a general feel for the game, but some aspects could be changing as we speak. One of the odd things I noticed was how inconsistent the landing lag was for numerous characters, this could be the result of the demo, or they have not ironed out the details everywhere. also, several treehouse reps have commented that they like certain characters more in another build of the game, which further cements that the demo may have been either a seperate production like brawl or a early build that was modified into a demo, based on the fact that crashes have occured with demos, it is likely the latter.

In my (somewhat limited) experience so far with game development and design, this was very likely. 'Public' builds made for demos, events, or proof-of-concept are generally the "safest" build they could compile before the presentation. In most cases, you pick a past build that is close to what you want to convey (in this case, as much of the announced features/content as possible), then start making it "demo ready" (adding GUI menus, testing for bugs, and getting rid of any super secret debug menus). Because of this, the build that gets put out for the demo can be anywhere from 1 week to 6 months old.

There is a lot of proof that this is the case in both the E3 and the Best Buy demos. Obviously there are characters that have been announced a while ago missing (Where's luigi in the Wii U version? Diddy Kong?), but there is some things that might be a little less obvious. The main one is character polish and completion. What do I mean by this?

• Knockback of moves are not nearly coherent within characters (Smashes don't kill but dash attack does)
• Throws (something that is often more complex to program than normal attacks) seem very "prototype" like, as if they were coded in but not adjusted or tuned
• Remnants of Brawl's code are inconsistently present (Marth looks like he hasn't been touched from his Brawl version)
• Pokeballs (and maybe assist trophies) spawn from a very limited selection of pokemon

Most of the "this feels slow/sluggish/awkward" hitches in may already be incorporated in Smash 4. Treehouse members already were talking about how they like how _______ works better in their build compared to the demo build. When we are looking for so many tiny details and polishes in a demo build that may be over three months old, we should expect to see some of the problems we found.

 

[Blackrider213]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD_ZnB8yJuA&list=PLlIHVxA7UoL1b9OwOj4Ci13oWKu8KFb9N&index=7

One thing I noticed in this video is that at 1:52, we can see Bowser's fire breath hitting Samus while she is charging her charge shot, yet she suffers no knockback while also being pushed back almost like a wind effect. Just a weird thing I noticed.

 

[Mithost]

I think the wind effect on it is new, but I know in Brawl if you got hit by the tip of some fire attacks you would get damaged but not have any knockback.

 

[hotdogturtle]

1. These players have only been playing for 2 days, but remember that the invitational players had only played the game for a few HOURS. The CT videos already show what a big difference a little practice makes, as they are already moving faster and with more confidence than the invitational players, and at least attempting (even if failing) to follow up their actions with other things. This shows that the game is capable of moving pretty fast, and any preliminary fears of "Brawlness" from the invitational can be attributed to player inexperience and basically not being able to show off the full potential of the game.

2. The videos with the Nintendo rep's ZSS show a huge contrast to the playstyle shown by Zero in the grand finals match. This guy was going on the offensive a lot more and even pulling off some short combos. This is evidence that the game does not have to be played only by camping, and that what we saw can be blamed on Zero's experience coming from a Brawl background and not on Smash 4 itself. (Also, shoutouts to that rep for being super chill and joining in with them.)

3. As if people needed any more reminders that this game is literally an unfinished prototype, Pikachu floats in the air for about a second after his Final Smash ends and before he falls to the ground. I observed this in videos from both E3 and Best Buy. It's not like the game will be shipping to disc in its current form, guys.

4. The landing lag issue seems like it's been the #1 biggest complaint that people left as feedback with Nintendo reps (from all the posts I've read of people who said they left feedback after the demo, almost everybody mentioned this). If Sakurai is actually going to take anything from the demo to heart, at least this thing will be at the very top of the list.

5. The other biggest problem that stands out to me as a spectator is that the blast zones are all too far out. Obviously a lot of stages themselves are really big, which is a whole separate issue that we may have to deal with later, but even on Battlefield and Smashville, characters can fly out really far without dying. I would like it if they literally just moved the blast zones closer to the stage.

Overall, aside from points 4 and 5 on my list, these 1v1 videos are one of the best things about Smash 4 to come out of E3, and they should be taken as nothing but positive for the game, especially for people who were skeptical after watching the invitational.

 

[Renji64]

1. These players have only been playing for 2 days, but remember that the invitational players had only played the game for a few HOURS. The CT videos already show what a big difference a little practice makes, as they are already moving faster and with more confidence than the invitational players, and at least attempting (even if failing) to follow up their actions with other things. This shows that the game is capable of moving pretty fast, and any preliminary fears of "Brawlness" from the invitational can be attributed to player inexperience and basically not being able to show off the full potential of the game.

2. The videos with the Nintendo rep's ZSS show a huge contrast to the playstyle shown by Zero in the grand finals match. This guy was going on the offensive a lot more and even pulling off some short combos. This is evidence that the game does not have to be played only by camping, and that what we saw can be blamed on Zero's experience coming from a Brawl background and not on Smash 4 itself. (Also, shoutouts to that rep for being super chill and joining in with them.)

3. As if people needed any more reminders that this game is literally an unfinished prototype, Pikachu floats in the air for about a second after his Final Smash ends and before he falls to the ground. I observed this in videos from both E3 and Best Buy. It's not like the game will be shipping to disc in its current form, guys.

4. The landing lag issue seems like it's been the #1 biggest complaint that people left as feedback with Nintendo reps (from all the posts I've read of people who said they left feedback after the demo, almost everybody mentioned this). If Sakurai is actually going to take anything from the demo to heart, at least this thing will be at the very top of the list.

5. The other biggest problem that stands out to me as a spectator is that the blast zones are all too far out. Obviously a lot of stages themselves are really big, which is a whole separate issue that we may have to deal with later, but even on Battlefield and Smashville, characters can fly out really far without dying. I would like it if they literally just moved the blast zones closer to the stage.

Overall, aside from points 4 and 5 on my list, these 1v1 videos are one of the best things about Smash 4 to come out of E3, and they should be taken as nothing but positive for the game, especially for people who were skeptical after watching the invitational.

Sakurai added tripping everyone has a right not to trust his judgement.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Sakurai added tripping everyone has a right not to trust his judgement.

That's why I said "if". Maybe I should go back and bold that since my whole statement is conditional on him.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

3. As if people needed any more reminders that this game is literally an unfinished prototype, Pikachu floats in the air for about a second after his Final Smash ends and before he falls to the ground. I observed this in videos from both E3 and Best Buy. It's not like the game will be shipping to disc in its current form, guys.

I believe he did that in Brawl. You mean the part where he kinda spins around before falling right? He's always done that.