Clarification on frames

[shogun]

I don't usually go to this section, but lots of noobs don't know what they're talking about. When they said that the game's speed is going to be moderated(When I am talking about speed it's mostly for online play), they are not referring to video frames, since most (if not all in the U.S) TVs use 60Hz, there will be 60 video frames per second, a TV cannot go past 60 fps if the Hz is 60.

So what were they talking about?

They were talking about control-frames (or key frames) now what these are, is how many frames the game can interpret a second, so 30 control frames per second, means the game can interpret 30 key presses in a second, they have not announced how many control frames per second Brawl will be using, so don't ask.

Didn't see anyone else post this, so I just wanted people to stop spamming on this topic, I'm done.

 

[usea]

I was under the impression that it meant the game would play at an overall slower pace. Nothing to do with technical key frames or some other thing. Why would they tell the general public about how many internal frames the game was interpreting? It doesn't make sense.

I definitely took it to mean that game would just play at a less hectic pace, which was apparently a complaint from the public about melee.

 

[shogun]

I was under the impression that it meant the game would play at an overall slower pace. Nothing to do with technical key frames or some other thing. Why would they tell the general public about how many internal frames the game was interpreting? It doesn't make sense.

I definitely took it to mean that game would just play at a less hectic pace, which was apparently a complaint from the public about melee.

Well see, one of the main reasons on why they would reduce control-frame rate, is because of online play, so it might be that there will be the max amount of control frames during offline play, and a capped amount when you are playing online like there is for a lot of games.

EDIT: Forgot to add the reason on why they'd cap the control frames for online play, since adding more would cause a lot more lag and disconnects, which is why a lot of games have less control frames online.

 

[Mic_128]

It's got nothing to do with frames and all to do with how fast characters can move and so on.

 

[shogun]

It's got nothing to do with frames and all to do with how fast characters can move and so on.

Right, but they have stated that they would most likely change control frames for online-play.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Right, but they have stated that they would most likely change control frames for online-play.

Ok when did they say this, and what "noobs" are you talking about? It seems more like you just wanted to sound intelligent, and Mic is right, it's a decrease in gameplay speeds, not framerate/processing speed.

 

[shogun]

Heh

Ok when did they say this, and what "noobs" are you talking about? It seems more like you just wanted to sound intelligent, and Mic is right, it's a decrease in gameplay speeds, not framerate/processing speed.

The noobs I speak of are the migration from GameFAQs to here, I wasn't trying to sound intelligent but there are people making threads about the game being 40 video frames per second, since they saw this in some kind of announcement, when it was actually a reference to control frames, not video frames.

I'm not talking about the game play being moderated, I'm speaking of a whole different matter.

 

[jaej]

I don't usually go to this section, but lots of noobs don't know what they're talking about. When they said that the game's speed is going to be moderated, they are not referring to video frames, since most (if not all in the U.S) TVs use 60Hz, there will be 60 video frames per second, a TV cannot go past 60 fps if the Hz is 60.

So what were they talking about?

They were talking about control-frames (or key frames) now what these are, is how many frames the game can interpret a second, so 30 control frames per second, means the game can interpret 30 key presses in a second, they have not announced how many control frames per second Brawl will be using, so don't ask.

Didn't see anyone else post this, so I just wanted people to stop spamming on this topic, I'm done.

If you could kit 30 keys a second, you would be the man.

 

[shogun]

If you could kit 30 keys a second, you would be the man.

Holding down a button, registers it as many control frames depending on the period you held it down for.

 

[usea]

Ah, I see what you meant. I haven't heard that announcement.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Isn't this thread kinda pointless since it's already been clarified that it is the actual gameplay?

 

[shogun]

Isn't this thread kinda pointless since it's already been clarified that it is the actual gameplay?

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=88017
..And there are many more, so no, if this thread is pointless, look around in this forum section and in melee discussion.

 

[Zombie Cola]

....what are you trying to say?

 

[shogun]

....what are you trying to say?

What do you mean what am I trying to say, this thread is a clarification on the difference between frames and control-frames, not game play. As you can see I posted a link to a thread of people talking about things they didn't know much about, and there are many more threads that are on the same subject.

 

[yomedrath]

sry, but something is not quite clear to me....
my question is propaply stupid, but anyway....
could it happen that you press more keys than the 30 which the game can manage, and then whatever you where trying to trigger just doesn`t happen?
thanks for answers!

 

[shogun]

sry, but something is not quite clear to me....
my question is propaply stupid, but anyway....
could it happen that you press more keys than the 30 which the game can manage, and then whatever you where trying to trigger just doesn`t happen?
thanks for answers!

There would be a delay but I doubt it'd be as bad as 30, 60 is what most games run at.

 

[yomedrath]

thanks a lot :D
i was fearing it would just not do what you wanted it to, but if its just a tiny bit delayed its not that bad, isn`t it?

 

[Harbinger]

Haha, yeah. People should read this to clarify a few things before they post dumb things about the game running faster/slower...

 

[sonofashrub]

frames have NOTHING to do with the speed of gameplay. Oh my god. The more frames you have (up to 60) the less like mr game and watch and the more like marth a character's animation will look. The reason you can't go past 60 is because of the reasons above, and in any case your brain can't even comprehend enough for more than 60 to make any sort of noticeable difference.

 

[sonofashrub]

There would be a delay but I doubt it'd be as bad as 30, 60 is what most games run at.

There is NO POSSIBLE WAY you can press more than 30 buttons in a second. And even if you can, there is no possible way for 30 actions to be made during one second. any sort of "delay" wouldn't be a problem.

 

[shogun]

There is NO POSSIBLE WAY you can press more than 30 buttons in a second. And even if you can, there is no possible way for 30 actions to be made during one second. any sort of "delay" wouldn't be a problem.

When I say "presses" I am referring to registers, so holding a button for about a second creates X amount of registers which are then cut down to how many control frames it could handle.

Try playing Conker's Bad Fur day on Project64k on kaillera with 20 control frames (keyframes), and tell me there is no delay, please understand what I'm talking about before criticizing my statements.

frames have NOTHING to do with the speed of gameplay. Oh my god. The more frames you have (up to 60) the less like mr game and watch and the more like marth a character's animation will look. The reason you can't go past 60 is because of the reasons above, and in any case your brain can't even comprehend enough for more than 60 to make any sort of noticeable difference.

You obviously didn't read my first post on this thread which I said video frames and control frames are not the same things.

In fact, allow me to quote myself:

Haha, yeah. People should read this to clarify a few things before they post dumb things about the game running faster/slower...

Yeah kinda like the guy above me.

 

[Droly]

You obviously don't know how videogames work, sonofashrub.

 

[Yota]

I think shogun is explaining it correctly.

The target of the game (frames) is to redraw the image 60 times per second. The target of the game logic is to read control input (control frames) 30 times per second. It is to my belief that the two run on different threads too, but I am most likely wrong here. The purpose of this slower control rate would be to lower bandwidth usage during online play.

Also, if it were to only read input 30 times per second, you would only be able to register 15 taps per second. (15 down, 15 up) Unless of course the thing works on a message queue, which would ruin the point of this slower control rate.

 

[OmniDistortion]

I see what you're saying. I think this was informative. 30 control frames would essentially be enough for it to poll input correctly from someone holding a button to just pressing it rather fast. Unless someone is able to press a button faster than 15 times a second on every second frame. Anyways to prevent such a light possibility from happening it will most likely be 40-50 control frames.

These frames only control input and by hindering it slightly it would reduce network lag. I don't think what they are saying involves graphical output at all. Should be 60 all around. Of course online it will still render it 60 frames per second but might look a bit different especially with the game either slowing down in order to help both players (much like DOA4 online) or players might 'teleport' here and there.

 

[shogun]

I see what you're saying. I think this was informative. 30 control frames would essentially be enough for it to poll input correctly from someone holding a button to just pressing it rather fast. Unless someone is able to press a button faster than 15 times a second on every second frame. Anyways to prevent such a light possibility from happening it will most likely be 40-50 control frames.

These frames only control input and by hindering it slightly it would reduce network lag. I don't think what they are saying involves graphical output at all. Should be 60 all around. Of course online it will still render it 60 frames per second but might look a bit different especially with the game either slowing down in order to help both players (much like DOA4 online) or players might 'teleport' here and there.

Well see, as I've stated before, it's taps, and also registers, so you could be holding a button and it would register it as a lot of inputs. I think we can trust the people making Brawl scripting nice packet control so that there won't be the graphical issues, so no one below a high-speed connection should lag. Even if at first there is lag, they will most likely patch it like they did when Socom 2 came out.

 

[Se><bot]

Wow, I'm suprised that people posting idiotically in this topic could even say they read shogun's post at all.

Reading comprehension for the lose.

 

[sonofashrub]

When I say "presses" I am referring to registers, so holding a button for about a second creates X amount of registers which are then cut down to how many control frames it could handle.

Try playing Conker's Bad Fur day on Project64k on kaillera with 20 control frames (keyframes), and tell me there is no delay, please understand what I'm talking about before criticizing my statements.



You obviously didn't read my first post on this thread which I said video frames and control frames are not the same things.

In fact, allow me to quote myself:




Yeah kinda like the guy above me.

you are a ****ing idiot.
i was just further emphasizing your first point. Do you even see me use the words "control frame or keyframes" at all? Cause i don't. I don't know what you were doing by posting something, and then arguing with someone who made basically the same point. All i did was add that making something more than 60 fps wouldn't make too much of a difference (or any at all) to the average human eye. Maybe...you should be the one reading posts before yelling at others for not.

 

[sonofashrub]

You obviously don't know how videogames work, sonofashrub.

I'm pretty sure what i said about fps was right.

you obviously are a ******.

 

[Droly]

I'm pretty sure what i said about fps was right.

you obviously are a ******.

why you call me ******** =*(

 

[shogun]

you are a ****ing idiot.
i was just further emphasizing your first point. Do you even see me use the words "control frame or keyframes" at all? Cause i don't. I don't know what you were doing by posting something, and then arguing with someone who made basically the same point. All i did was add that making something more than 60 fps wouldn't make too much of a difference (or any at all) to the average human eye. Maybe...you should be the one reading posts before yelling at others for not.

I am obviously an astericking idiot, yet, you are speaking of video frames, while I speak of a whole different matter.

There is NO POSSIBLE WAY you can press more than 30 buttons in a second. And even if you can, there is no possible way for 30 actions to be made during one second. any sort of "delay" wouldn't be a problem.

You also didn't know what you were talking about in this, as I was talking about button registers, not actual presses.

Please get some education before calling anyone an idiot, thanks.

 

[Mew2King]

you don't know what you're talking about sonofashrub

 

[sonofashrub]

You obviously didn't read my first post on this thread which I said video frames and control frames are not the same things.

In fact, allow me to quote myself:

I'm agreeing with you, idiot. I was talking to someone else who was talking about video frames. I even said "for the reasons above" in reference to your original post.

 

[ALF]

wownecrobump

Seriously, what's the point of continuing a thread about the mechanics of rumors of something that came out over two years ago just to call someone an idiot? You make yourself look like an asshat that nobody wants to listen to, so even if you were right it's clearly a loss for you. Please think of the ramifications of your actions before you post next time.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

This is almost impressive in its idiocy.

4 year necro, holy crapsh*t. xD