Chopper Drop: New(?) Dedede Tech, Research Needed

[SoopaDerpcat]

I'm not entirely sure whether this is completely new or not, but I've never really seen it brought up or used in any guides or replays before, so I'm just going to assume that it's new or at least not documented. Unfortunately I don't have a capture card so I can't really show it off. If somebody could make a video on it after reading this topic, that would just be splendiferous.

Please note that while I know that this tech is entirely possible, as I've done it in training mode, I haven't gotten much of a chance to test it out on other players yet. And even when I do get a chance to try it out, I'm not exactly the greatest Dedede ever and probably won't be the one to discover its true potential, assuming it has any. That's why I need you to help me test and research it!

Okay, that's enough blabbering about background information: now for what the Chopper Drop actually IS and DOES!
This tech is, essentially, just a basic but unorthodox use for King Dedede's Uair. There are three variants.

Variant #1: Light Chopper Drop

This version is the first one that I discovered, and is the quickest and least predictable. To perform it, short hop above your opponent and execute Dedede's Up Air, then immediately fast fall as soon as you input it. You have to be pretty precise, since you have to fall more or less trough the center of their hitbox before they can be pushed away, although the fast fall helps with that. If the character you're attacking is tall enough, the hammer's preliminary low-knockback hits will lift them into the air and immediately set them down in front of you just a few frames after you land. This will NOT put your opponent into their tumble state, meaning they won't bounce and can't tech away.

The best use I can find for this tech is a combo starter. If timed correctly, you'll have little to no landing lag and you will land before your opponent, leaving them with little to no time to react.


Variant #2: Heavy Chopper Drop

This version is a lot more risky and leaves you open for longer, but has an entirely different and more useful(?) purpose.
It's executed in the exact same way as the light variant, except this time you don't fast fall. As a result, instead of your Up Air autocancelling during the preliminary hit of the move, the final hit of the attack will connect; in short, this version will actually launch your opponents.

Why not just go for a more "standard" aerial? Because the Heavy Chopper Drop will launch your opponent straight upwards, unlike Fair, Nair or Bair. Those moves all launch players away from you, and since Dedede is a very slow character, that will prevent you from following up with another move. With a Heavy Chopper Drop, you can follow up with an Uptilt and lower percents, or a second Upair at higher percents.


Variant #3: Falling Chopper Drop

This move is actually pretty theoretical; although it's obviously possible, I haven't yet though of any major uses for it. Basically, just fastfall through an opponent while using Upair. Could potentially be used to punish players who are conditioned to dodge Nairs and Dairs, but smaller characters could potentially escape with minimal damage.


The Lab
These are the areas where I need your time, research and input. So far I think it would be good to study which chararacters this tech works on.

E = Easy. The tech is effective against, and easy to hit this character with.
H = Hard. It's possible to use the tech against these characters, but their properties or attacks make it difficult.
VH = Very hard. Completely impractical, but still technically possible.
I = Literally impossible. These characters are too short to be hit by Uair's hitbox while on the ground.
< No letter> = Undecided. No conclusive research done on this character

Light: E Heavy: H Falling: E



Light: E Heavy: H Falling: E







Light: H Heavy:VH Falling: H
Light: H Heavy:VH Falling: H



Light: VH Heavy:VH Falling: VH




Light: VH Heavy:VH Falling: H


























Light: E Heavy: H Falling: VH (specifically because of ROB's Uair)

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Ayyy I discovered this a little while back, but I never thought anything of it. It's like using Ness' or Wario's uair while landing right?

I'm gonna lab this right away

 

[SoopaDerpcat]

I suppose it is quite like Ness or Wario's landing Uair, but what I'm sort of excited about is that this particular tech is timing-sensitive and changing your fall speed can change the outcome of the move. It's nothing too major, but King Dedede's meta is severely underdeveloped, and every little bit helps at this point.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

No, I understand; I was just making sure we were both straight on the general execution of the move.

Anyway, I'm excited to have someone else excited about the King.

Starting labbing now!

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

I have found that in order to do these techniques, you must aim the shaft of the hammer itself into the very center of the character's head specifically. No other part of D3 will work.

Here are my findings so far from Omega Final Destination, on various percents. I will update as I acquire more info.

: very hard 1, hardish 2, easyish 3. I don't find these moves very practical against mario. His frames would just punish it. Maybe a 2 or a launching 3 mixup would work but thats about the extent of it.

: same as Mario, (frame data punishes us) but a fastfall 3 could help us escape combos. More extensive application will be required.

: these techniques will be bad against peach. I seriously do not recommend trying these against her. They leave you in her favorite angles, a downwards angle. It's a little easier than the Bros though.

: this is great against bowser! Although 2 is impossible against a real opponent, 1 is great; as it puts Bowser in landing lag if used on the groupnd which means free grab! 3 also works, but a regular dthrow upair drag is more appropriate. If you find yourself in the position for the 3 though, go ahead.

 

[SoopaDerpcat]

The testing I managed to get in before getting tired and having to go to sleep wasn't very much, so I tried to make it fairly general.

What I found is that, somewhat surprisingly, the opponent's height has less significance than I expected, (I initially didn't think it would even be possible to hit Mario even when he's standing perfectly still, but you can) but width has much MORE significance than I expected. Most skinny characters are extremely difficult to hit with either the Light or Heavy variants while moving, so unfortunately it probably won't really help with most of Dedede's bad matchups. Unless the hammer's hitbox extends a LOT lower than I think it does, then it might be able to catch running Pikachus fairly well.

 

[DEX_]

Can someone make a video about the light one? I think i understood, but i'm not quite sure, does it only make 1% damage? i cant' really pull it off consistently from the short hop, it's easier for me from above the opponent, but maybe i didn't understand how to do it properly

i'll test the second one, it seems kinda useful, and i'll try the third one too

 

[Dark Phazon]

I'm not entirely sure whether this is completely new or not, but I've never really seen it brought up or used in any guides or replays before, so I'm just going to assume that it's new or at least not documented. Unfortunately I don't have a capture card so I can't really show it off. If somebody could make a video on it after reading this topic, that would just be splendiferous.

Please note that while I know that this tech is entirely possible, as I've done it in training mode, I haven't gotten much of a chance to test it out on other players yet. And even when I do get a chance to try it out, I'm not exactly the greatest Dedede ever and probably won't be the one to discover its true potential, assuming it has any. That's why I need you to help me test and research it!

Okay, that's enough blabbering about background information: now for what the Chopper Drop actually IS and DOES!
This tech is, essentially, just a basic but unorthodox use for King Dedede's Uair. There are three variants.

Variant #1: Light Chopper Drop

This version is the first one that I discovered, and is the quickest and least predictable. To perform it, short hop above your opponent and execute Dedede's Up Air, then immediately fast fall as soon as you input it. You have to be pretty precise, since you have to fall more or less trough the center of their hitbox before they can be pushed away, although the fast fall helps with that. If the character you're attacking is tall enough, the hammer's preliminary low-knockback hits will lift them into the air and immediately set them down in front of you just a few frames after you land. This will NOT put your opponent into their tumble state, meaning they won't bounce and can't tech away.

The best use I can find for this tech is a combo starter. If timed correctly, you'll have little to no landing lag and you will land before your opponent, leaving them with little to no time to react.


Variant #2: Heavy Chopper Drop

This version is a lot more risky and leaves you open for longer, but has an entirely different and more useful(?) purpose.
It's executed in the exact same way as the light variant, except this time you don't fast fall. As a result, instead of your Up Air autocancelling during the preliminary hit of the move, the final hit of the attack will connect; in short, this version will actually launch your opponents.

Why not just go for a more "standard" aerial? Because the Heavy Chopper Drop will launch your opponent straight upwards, unlike Fair, Nair or Bair. Those moves all launch players away from you, and since Dedede is a very slow character, that will prevent you from following up with another move. With a Heavy Chopper Drop, you can follow up with an Uptilt and lower percents, or a second Upair at higher percents.


Variant #3: Falling Chopper Drop

This move is actually pretty theoretical; although it's obviously possible, I haven't yet though of any major uses for it. Basically, just fastfall through an opponent while using Upair. Could potentially be used to punish players who are conditioned to dodge Nairs and Dairs, but smaller characters could potentially escape with minimal damage.


The Lab
These are the areas where I need your time, research and input. So far I think it would be good to study which chararacters this tech works on.

E = Easy. The tech is effective against, and easy to hit this character with.
H = Hard. It's possible to use the tech against these characters, but their properties or attacks make it difficult.
VH = Very hard. Completely impractical, but still technically possible.
I = Literally impossible. These characters are too short to be hit by Uair's hitbox while on the ground.
< No letter> = Undecided. No conclusive research done on this character

Light: E Heavy: H Falling: E



Light: E Heavy: H Falling: E







Light: H Heavy:VH Falling: H
Light: H Heavy:VH Falling: H



Light: VH Heavy:VH Falling: VH




Light: VH Heavy:VH Falling: H


























Light: E Heavy: H Falling: VH (specifically because of ROB's Uair)

Like this? xD this is me

 

[Soul Train]

Like this? xD this is me

No, that's not what he's talking about - that's just the Uair cancel to grab thing we pretty extensively utilize already (and I covered in my video guides). The purpose of this is to use the Uair hitbox(es) to pop the opponent up for more combos. Nothing revolutionary (or even safe), but hey we need all the D3 tech we can get.

Also, PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: if you have 1. A Wii U, and 2. An internet connection, you can easily upload your saved vids to youtube in high-quality. Just go to your replays, select one, then hit "share", then choose the upload to youtube option. You'll have to connect to a youtube/google account, but that takes seconds to make if you don't have one.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

That only applies to replays under 3 minutes, otherwise you must select the highlight reel option and pray the game takes the parts you want.

So if I understand this correctly, it's sort of the opposite of how we currently use uair? Instead of pulling them down out of a throw follow up, we land with the move on top of them to lift them up. Sounds interesting...I've tried things like this with other characters but never thought to test it out with my actual main lol.

I'm with Soul Train, it doesn't sound very safe but Dedede as a character right now lives off of all the weird little tricks he can do. I'll have to remember to lab this out some.

 

[Flawed]

Sounds theoretically terrible- like everything he has.

I'll super lab it in For Glory tonight, and if I get 2 good uses out of it, you guys will have my vote to list it as unorthodox technology.

Now before I waste my time:

-Condition 3 which you call falling chopper drop, its basically the "light chopper drop" from higher up? or through platforms? I'm not following on that one

 

[SoopaDerpcat]

Falling Chopper Drop is basically exactly the same as his Uair drag, but you fast fall through the opponent from above.

It...doesn't actually work that well and in most cases you'll be better off just using fastfall Nair.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I was labbing this last night and...I dunno, it just doesn't seem useful. You're correct that it can be a good combo starter, but actually hitting with it in any meaningful way is near impossible against most characters. You basically have to assume they will be standing still, AND have a hurtbox large enough to consistently land this on.

I can see it being useful against fellow heavies, but Dedede didn't really need anything to make those match-ups better. I'm not saying it's useless, but it feels more like a party trick than anything at this point.

 

[SoopaDerpcat]

That's what I was afraid of; it seems this tech is only actually good in most of the matchups that Dedede already doesn't have much trouble with, and next to useless in all of his bad matchups.

 

[Dark Phazon]

What are the patch changes for D3?

 

[Crenando]

A lot of the Dedede's I know (myself included) like to down throw -> jump -> fast fall UAir in order to set up another grab. At certain percents and on certain characters, its pretty much a true chaingrab. On Bowser, it can work up to around 60%. I played a DK once and was able to do 5 of them consecutively off of 0%. Of course, this works with non-heavy weights as well, just not above 40-50% (and even then, its not exactly true). I guess this is all somewhat of a variation of the Chopper Drop.