Charizard Matchup Discussion - Lucario

AureusVulpes

Triforce of AURA
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#2
Hm, I'm not entirely sure where to begin with this.

As i stated in the flare blitz thread, you can get away with sometimes throwing it out until the Lucario is above 60% without an AS charged. After that, you're asking for punishment. Also be aware that a properly redirected Double Team counter (If the Lucario holds away from where you came from during the animation he can kick you in the face instead of from behind) will absolutely decimate you, so Flare Blitz should only be used as a surprise or to seal a kill or punish a read IMO.

Lucario has a fast grab game and his various ranged specials can really be annoying given zard's speed. He also got a movement speed buff in 1.1.3, so
he can approach you better than before. Jabs probably outrange lucario's but there's always force palm and good lucarios know how to pressure with it.

Flamethrower sounds like a neat idea, but you may only be making him stronger and giving his force palm and aura sphere more deadliness and range.

.... I honestly wouldn't know where to begin fighting my own main with zard.

All that being said, his air game is pretty neat but his weight makes it somewhat easy for zard to gimp him into oblivion, provided it connects. That recovery is nice, but only if you're not already slammed into the lower boundry. This could be really hard to pull, though. His up air can be murder at higher lucario percents(it's actually one of our bread and butter kill options) and comes out faster than zard's dair, so watch for that. His bair is also in the same category for kill options.
 
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#3
Not personally akin to this matchup but at bare bones, lucario has the ability (aura) to not care about charizard's weight, so getting killed and camped afterwards will be a problem. However charizard also has the option to cheese out lucario with u-throw on platform or anything heavy hitting really, as he does with all characters, however in this case Lucario really struggles when getting killed early which Charizard can make happen. I guess the match-up comes down to securing the kill quicker : P . Other than that I don't know much about the neutral.
 

Swamp Sensei

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#4
So it's really about who's lucky with the kill?
 

AureusVulpes

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#5
So it's really about who's lucky with the kill?
I wouldn't go that far, I'd say zard's success here will really be based on his bait game. You are gonna need to bait lucario into some kind of frame lag to give yourself an opportunity to strike. That's not really saying much considering that's his playstyle anyway, but having played lucario for almost a year now and playing zard against a few of the people i play my main against(who are good at what they do) on and off over the past few months, the post i made above is the impression i get for this MU. I play zard more solo (simply because i dont really think i fully GET him yet), so my mileage likely differs from players who main him seriously.

That said, i'd offer to do some friendlies to feel out the MU, but i recently injured my left hand, requiring a trip to an urgent care center, and i dont think id be at my peak for them. once the wound heals over well enough (likely 3-4 days) i'd certainly be happy to give this a match or two over wifi. It's not my main fingers for 3ds gaming but it'll still bug me. i'll post back here when im ready.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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#6
So it's really about who's lucky with the kill?
In a way, you are sort of right in how this goes.

If he gets the first kill, he can camp the **** out of Charizard. Side B and Aura Sphere give him a lot that is hard to weave around.

Things that also don't work for Zard if he gets the first kill is that Lucario's Footie game with Aura is a lot better than if we killed him first, he gains safety on block and other bonuses with Aura. We are combo fodder for a bit and if this was prepatch Lucario I would say we had a better time catching his landings but that got slghtly harder with the changes to Lucario's weight, airspeed and fallspeed.

Charizard still can catch his landings very well and if he tries to rely on ASC in the neutral to net cheese kills or just pressure Flare Blitz beats it out if you see him coming down with it, since he has to shoot it or airdodge to cancel it which Flare blitz covers both of those and if he just holds it to charge. Flame thrower also works if you aren't as sure you can catch it on landing.

Making Lucario UpB and learn the speed of his extreme speed and you can punish it, but it's not hard. Biggest thing is punishing him going for the ledge.

A lot of this MU I think is Charizard going for kills when he can and Lucario playing footies to keep his distance right.
 
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