Charging F-Smash Ledge Coverage

[Flawlessh]

Remember this?

The option of charging f-smash at the ledge while facing the stage, covering every get-up option, standard, roll, jump, and attack.

Well it doesn't cover every option for every character, while playing friendlies at my local, I noticed a Robin was able to jump from the ledge, and they didn't receive the charging f-smash hit.

I later tested this in training mode, and they do not get hit by it if they jump.
I also decided to test a couple other characters. Bowser Jr, is able to hit us with his get-up attack, and Robin again was able to hit us with his get-up attack (Robin's only hit about 75% of the time).

I don't have the time currently (exams) but I will make a chart of every character to see which options they have to beat our f-smash charging hitbox. If anyone is bored and feel like doing some testing, I would appreciate it.

 

[Berserker.]

Important edit:

Did not read the part about "facing the stage"

****

Ok. I'll just let the videos explain themselves. All these are Corrin facing towards the stage

Robin (Get-up attack)

Robin (Ledge hop) - Yep. Ledge hopping completely avoids the charging f-smash if you face towards the stage

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Everything down here is about if you're facing away from the stage as Corrin

Robin's get up attack can only hit Corrin if you space your charging f-smash from the ledge but even then most of the time (almost all the time actually), Robin's get-up attack gets flat out beaten. I tried out ledge jumping with Robin too but so far, he has yet to avoid charging f-smash by ledge jumping if you use charging f-smash close to the ledge. I doubted myself for this one and kept trying but the f-smash managed to intercept Robin's ledge jump. I tried spacing it from the ledge and that's the only time Robin was able to jump to avoid the charging f-smash but from that same distance, Robin's get-up attack loses to charging f-smash

As for Bowser Jr, his get-up attack beats out charging f-smash if you space charging f-smash. Jr's hurtbox during his get-up attack sort of sticks behind the ledge so you'll have to move your charging f-smash closer to the ledge if you want to intercept him

I tried testing ledge jumping vs charging f-smash vs Robin, Mario, Jr, and Sheik. They still got hit by charging f-smash. Also tested get-up attack with Mario and Sheik

Gonna leave videos here of me testing it:

Although I need some assurance that I'm right on this so @Lavani (only if you're up for it)

 

[Nah]

Wouldn't you not want to stand a bit away from the ledge if you're going for the chainsaw ledge cover though?

 

[Skitrel]

Hmm. I'm sure I recall reading that the charge part of fsmash has a hitbox on every 5th frame.

If that's correct then anything that can travel past it in 4 frames or less has the potential to get missed by it, this is what makes it occasionally unreliable against Fox sideB. I've never tested, but my assumption would be that normal getups with a buffered spotdodge can get through it if there's only 1 punishable frame on them.

Anyone have the data to hand? I can't find a source for how far apart the hitbox frames are now.

 

[Berserker.]

Wouldn't you not want to stand a bit away from the ledge if you're going for the chainsaw ledge cover though?

I'm just laying out the possible causes as to how the chainsaw effect doesn't intercept a ledge hop or ledge attack. It could be for other reasons.

Or it could be because he was talking about facing the stage. Lol I'm an idiot ;~;

Hmm. I'm sure I recall reading that the charge part of fsmash has a hitbox on every 5th frame.

If that's correct then anything that can travel past it in 4 frames or less has the potential to get missed by it, this is what makes it occasionally unreliable against Fox sideB. I've never tested, but my assumption would be that normal getups with a buffered spotdodge can get through it if there's only 1 punishable frame on them.

Anyone have the data to hand? I can't find a source for how far apart the hitbox frames are now.

http://kuroganehammer.com/smash4/corrin
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OWFwy_dg04Rrq4a-YF9-VDOhZI/edit#gid=943524191

It says that f-smash has a rehit-rate for every 5 frames

 

[Flawlessh]

Get up attacks have 3 frames after the invincibility till the hit box comes out. This is for every get up attack.

So I guess technically every1 can beat out our f-smash ledge coverage if timed properly. But they have a 1 frame or 2 frame window. (unsure since on the 2nd possable frame it may trade, or there hitbox may not be on the stage yet)

 

[Skitrel]

That would depend on how long each hitbox of the fsmash charge stays active right?

It might have a rehit rate of 5 frames, but is that out for just 1 frame? Or is it active for 2 or 3?

If it's active for 2 frames, then it's not possible for any normal get up with a spot dodge buffered to get through it. I brought this up because I've never actually seen a normal getup get through it so I don't think it's a single frame.

 

[Flawlessh]

https://twitter.com/KuroganeHammer/status/722570908108349440

The f-smash charge hitbox is ALWAYS ACTIVE, but it only rehits every 5 frames. instead of active on the 5th frame counting

so the 5 frame rehit countdown is turned on only when the move first hits.

so a timed ledge get up or get up attack cant beat it.

 

[PK Gaming]

It's a decent option every once in a while, but not something I would usually recommend doing. Better to go for Dragon Lunge or attempt the 2 frame with Fsmash for a potential KO.

 

[Skitrel]

It's worth noting that if you shorthop Dragon Lunge for an edge cancel, you can attempt the ledgesnap punish AND do the turnaround pin to kick back onto stage.

This covers every option other than dropping off the ledge or hanging until the pin ends. If you delay the second pin however so that you are further off the stage you can be low enough to kick into a ledge trump instead of onto stage.

Kick also has an excellent hitbox that beats a lot of moves, it will intercept a lot of recoveries and causes a stage spike.

I've been using this a while, but it was recently demonstrated very briefly on video at 4minutes 5seconds here: https://youtu.be/bodpBjYDyT4?t=4m5s I recently asked Lavani in PM if he'd do his hitbox images for our kick as I wanted to do so some comparison with options for this.

Honestly, runoff reverse pin is one of Corrins strongest options for leaving opponents with no choices and this technique expands it to give punish opportunities on 2 dangerous moments for opponents during edgeguard as opposed to the usual 1.