"character tweaks"

[ptrk83]

What kind of character rebalances would everyone like to see in Pac-Man this coming April?

I am kinda hoping they fix his grab. Get rid of the dead zones and make it less laggy on miss.


Also hoping they bring back his lagless up smash and maybe quicken his forward and down smash just a bit.

 

[Nu~]

You're asking for a lot lol.
But I agree. Take away the horrible hurtbox on our fair landing lag animation as well

Maybe speed up his grab to frame 9?

 

[Pacack]

I'd just make his grab cover the entire area of the beams even when returning to his hand. It would improve it significantly while still making it punishable.

Maybe also make bonking your head on the ledge with side-b a bit less common?

 

[dragontamer]

KO Parity with other FSmash attacks that are 18f+ long.

IE: Sonic's or Capt. Falcon's.

 

[BSP]

^^^Wishful thinking, but would be nice. Compared to theirs, our's is a disjoint...but big deal when their recovery is better, they are more mobile, and the smash is stronger...

Anyway, what I'd like to see:

Remove deadzones from grab, and either speed it up a bit or lower the endlag. Grabbing is so critical in this game, and I feel like Pac-Man's is a bit overkill. Also, do something to make it unable to be spotdodged. Maybe have the entire beam have a grabbing hitbox until it stops extending. Oh, while we're at it, make the entire beam grab >_>

Increase Fair's autocancel window. It would help Pac-Man's SH pressure game, because we can't fast fall it at all without having the landing lag.

Asking for SH Dair to autocancel is probably too much, but more incentive to throw that move out would be nice. If that can't happen, I would like for the KB of the first 3 hits to be adjusted so that they drag the victim wherever Pac-Man is going. That way, a FH Dair would actually connect fully.

Fix hydrants falling through the stage for whatever reason.

I would like more knockback on Uthrow, but that probably won't happen. Having it KO at 180% consistently would be nice.

Do something with Dsmash that makes me feel more motivated to use it. Yeah, it hits both sides simultaneously, but it is sooooo freaking slow, and it's not powerful enough to justify the startup and ending lag it has. Either lower the startup lag or increase the knockback/Damage.

Why can't Pac-Man have a setup hit for his Usmash behind him as well? Marth, Shulk, and Lucina have one, don't they? Also, have the startup hit always pull opponents out of bell stun into the strong hit of Usmash. It does that for buried people, why not stunned ones?

 

[Pacack]

Fix hydrants falling through the stage for whatever reason.

If they don't fix this, I'll be absolutely furious.

 

[Nu~]

Wait! Keep that in!
It lets us drop hydrants through platforms on BF.

 

[Pacack]

Wait! Keep that in!
It lets us drop hydrants through platforms on BF.

I'm afraid I'm against keeping it in. It's just too inconsistent, and it's more often a burden when it happens on accident than it is a help on stages like Battlefield, from my experience.

 

[Nu~]

I'm afraid I'm against keeping it in. It's just too inconsistent, and it's more often a burden when it happens on accident than it is a help on stages like Battlefield, from my experience.

But it can be controlled. It happens whenever you try to use down B right after a SH aerial too close to the ground.

 

[Pacack]

But it can be controlled. It happens whenever you try to use down B right after a SH aerial too close to the ground.

Maybe I just haven't practiced it enough, then. But it does tend to annoy me when it happens at the most inconvenient times.

 

[BSP]

Wait! Keep that in!
It lets us drop hydrants through platforms on BF.

I wonder if they could keep that, but stop it from going through entire stages.

Also, what do we think about hydrant's HP at 13%? Should it go back down to 12%? Go up?

I like having easier setups for traps since Bair won't launch in one hit...but I do miss those days where a fresh bair would launch. If it stays at 13% HP, I would appreciate Melon being buffed to 13% so we have more than 1 instant launching default fruit. I don't think 13% from Melon is too absurd either. It's still really slow, clankable, and catchable.

 

[Nu~]

I wonder if they could keep that, but stop it from going through entire stages.

Also, what do we think about hydrant's HP at 13%? Should it go back down to 12%? Go up?

I like having easier setups for traps since Bair won't launch in one hit...but I do miss those days where a fresh bair would launch. If it stays at 13% HP, I would appreciate Melon being buffed to 13% so we have more than 1 instant launching default fruit. I don't think 13% from Melon is too absurd either. It's still really slow, clankable, and catchable.

Buff Bair to 13%
I'm serious. To come out on frame 9,11.5 is kinda on the weak side and I don't see why we can't have at least one killing aerial. Nair is great, but requires you to be offstage.


Melon doesn't have to be buffed to 13% because we can just drop it twice immediately by pressing Z+A after it bounces on the hydrant once.

 

[Pacack]

I personally prefer the setups with the hydrant that I can perform with the bair into something else. Nair > Jab is a major tool of mine for controlling space and getting people scared of the hydrant again. I'd absolutely hate to lose it.

That said, Nair > 2Jabs does the same thing with a little more of a horizontal bounce, so I suppose I could adapt.

 

[Nu~]

I'm trying to use my hydrant as more of a decoy in nuetral now. I hate how the hydrant gets super stale over the course of the match, so instead I let my opponent waste their attacks on it and punish them hard for it. It forces them to respect my hydrant and conditions them into staying away from it

 

[Galaxian]

Honestly, I can't see Pac-Man getting touched at all from the patch. If anything maybe he'd get buffed a little.

He's not OP, he's pretty okay at a standing point. I think we're in the clear.

I'm worried about Ness and Mario. Please just slap them on the wrist and give them less damage or something

If anything, they should buff his alts and give him a ****ing green sleeves alt already PLEASE

 

[BlazGreen]

Please just give him his old hydrant health back. I miss my Z drop Melon shenanigans :[

 

[Nu~]

Please just give him his old hydrant health back. I miss my Z drop Melon shenanigans :[

Just double z drop:
Zdrop->Press Z+A after the fruit comes back up

 

[NimbusSpark]

Personally, I don't mind too much about what actually happens to Pac within the patch, although I assume that Pac wouldn't be touched that much aside from actually making the range of his grab look less misleading, as well as having grab hitboxes for his Boss Galaga 'radar reception' themed grab throughout the entire animation.
Whilst I must agree that Pac could use a solid killing aerial, but Power-Pac Jump somewhat negates this in a customs enviroment, as a combo finisher close to the ceiling of the stage.
I'd personally leave Pac how he currently is, aside from the buff in grab hitboxes. He's overall a very balanced character right now, and he doesn't really need to be changed that much.

And for those that say hydrant needs to be buffed back to their original state, you can just do a landing F-Tilt after a B-Air to actually send the hydrant flying in a fairly similar fashion. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the time you take to actually launch the hydrant is slower.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Honestly, the only move I wish to see changed is down air. Right now, there's really no real use for it, and you're better off using another aerial.

 

[Galaxian]

Personally, I don't mind too much about what actually happens to Pac within the patch, although I assume that Pac wouldn't be touched that much aside from actually making the range of his grab look less misleading, as well as having grab hitboxes for his Boss Galaga 'radar reception' themed grab throughout the entire animation.
Whilst I must agree that Pac could use a solid killing aerial, but Power-Pac Jump somewhat negates this in a customs enviroment, as a combo finisher close to the ceiling of the stage.
I'd personally leave Pac how he currently is, aside from the buff in grab hitboxes. He's overall a very balanced character right now, and he doesn't really need to be changed that much.

And for those that say hydrant needs to be buffed back to their original state, you can just do a landing F-Tilt after a B-Air to actually send the hydrant flying in a fairly similar fashion. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the time you take to actually launch the hydrant is slower.

Isn't Nair a solid aerial though? I can't say. I pretty much agree with everything here, though.

Honestly, the only move I wish to see changed is down air. Right now, there's really no real use for it, and you're better off using another aerial.

This too. Maybe make it less laggy or something.

 

[ptrk83]

Forgot about down air being completely useless as well.

 

[dragontamer]

Its not _completely_ useless, but its probably PacMan's worst attack by far. I do manage to catch the occasional guy by doing SH Down Air instead of a SH Retreating Fair (since its the only attack that requires opponents to hold shield all the way through).

If DAir autocenceled OR did more shield damage / pressure (maybe enough to break a low-shield, like Yoshi's), it'd be fine. Its definitely high-risk low-reward as it stands however.

 

[Galaxian]

Its not _completely_ useless, but its probably PacMan's worst attack by far. I do manage to catch the occasional guy by doing SH Down Air instead of a SH Retreating Fair (since its the only attack that requires opponents to hold shield all the way through).

If DAir autocenceled OR did more shield damage / pressure (maybe enough to break a low-shield, like Yoshi's), it'd be fine. Its definitely high-risk low-reward as it stands however.

Just make Pac's Dair turn him into Yoshi :^)

Yeah if it was faster or ate shields it'd be better. Make it meteor smash.

That's a joke but I'd like it much more if Pac's dair spiked on the last hit

 

[NimbusSpark]

Isn't Nair a solid aerial though? I can't say. I pretty much agree with everything here, though.

I must agree with this, but as Pacman9 stated, Pac-Man needs to be off-stage in order for his Neutral Air to actually be a decent K.O move, thus becoming more of an edgeguard option for K.O'ing. It's still a great move though. Hitboxes coming out on the 3rd frame... damn, that's fast.

Honestly, the only move I wish to see changed is down air. Right now, there's really no real use for it, and you're better off using another aerial.

I have also forgotten about Pac's Down Air as well... but yes, there is literally little-to-no use for it right now. Hydrant is 100 times better for breaking juggles, not to mention the Down Air doesn't even feel like a 'Flurry Kick' style of attack, compared to how Peach or Yoshi's Down Air acts. Either the interval of kicks needs to be faster, or it actually could draw the enemies into the later kicks.
Something like that.

 

[Maple42]

The nerf that got rid of his hydrant-breaking back air broke me. I was so used to doing it before the patch, even now, months after I stopped maining Pac-Man, I still do it.
As the others mentioned, down air. While it probably can't be turned into a flurry attack, I'd be nice if it did a bit more damage.

Also, just a personal thing, but since Greninja has a damaging taunt, can we make the Namco taunt have varying effects, too? I mean, the results are so varied, it'd be like an even less reliable version of Mr. Game and Watch's Judge, so I don't see any harm in it > u >

(And I wanna get disrespect points)

 

[Galaxian]

The nerf that got rid of his hydrant-breaking back air broke me. I was so used to doing it before the patch, even now, months after I stopped maining Pac-Man, I still do it.
As the others mentioned, down air. While it probably can't be turned into a flurry attack, I'd be nice if it did a bit more damage.

Also, just a personal thing, but since Greninja has a damaging taunt, can we make the Namco taunt have varying effects, too? I mean, the results are so varied, it'd be like an even less reliable version of Mr. Game and Watch's Judge, so I don't see any harm in it > u >

(And I wanna get disrespect points)

Fthrow into utaunt combo when?

 

[Goggalor]

I think most of what I want done to Pac was mentioned already with the Grab deal. Then doing something with his moves like Dair and Down Smash to give more motivation to use them (Prior mention of Dair spiking would be super nice).

The main thing I'm worried about though is that they might do something about the Trampoline because of that whole Pac-Ladder thing in doubles. My main worry is that they will make the Trampoline just like the fruit and hydrant, making it so that you can't use it again until the previous one is gone. I think I'd be fine with most other ways they could change the Trampoline to remove the ladder though, just not limit it like our other tools.

 

[BSP]

The main thing I'm worried about though is that they might do something about the Trampoline because of that whole Pac-Ladder thing in doubles. My main worry is that they will make the Trampoline just like the fruit and hydrant, making it so that you can't use it again until the previous one is gone. I think I'd be fine with most other ways they could change the Trampoline to remove the ladder though, just not limit it like our other tools.

I don't know if it's possible for them to code, but I think the best way to fix that issue without screwing anything else up would be to have the game instantly Star KO anyone who hits two different Pac-Man trampolines, that they did not place themselves, 2 times in a row without going under the vertical blastzone between hitting each trampoline. The only way this would KO anyone is if 2 or more Pac-Men were trying to stall with each other.

 

[Sinji]

I would like for his bair to have more power. For a slow aerial, it should have more power. For the hydrant nerf, It's a bit weird. I personally find it a nerf against certain characters and buff against other characters. For example, its a buff against Diddy Kong. I remember when I first got the game and I would throw out a hydrant and Diddy Kongs would fair or monkey flip kick the hydrant (knocking it in one hit) before I get a chance it hit it away. Now I can use the water and other traps and create more uncomfortable situations for my opponents instead of simply bairing the hydrant and creating one option. And looking at options like this can help me out against prominent Diddy Kong players like Mew2King and Zero if I ever face them. His Up B should change back to his original where the opponent bounces at a height based on the color of the trampoline. It shouldn't feel uncomfortable using up b out of shield against Shiek and she bounces at the same height then lands with a fair before I get the chance to recover back into neutral just because she is agile. His Dair should have more knock back at least since isn't a optimal out of shield option compared to others.

 

[BSP]

His Up B should change back to his original where the opponent bounces at a height based on the color of the trampoline. It shouldn't feel uncomfortable using up b out of shield against Shiek and she bounces at the same height then lands with a fair before I get the chance to recover back into neutral just because she is agile.

I had forgotten about this tbh. I wish it would come back too.

 

[CMRaptor]

Honestly, I can't see Pac-Man getting touched at all from the patch. If anything maybe he'd get buffed a little.

He's not OP, he's pretty okay at a standing point. I think we're in the clear.

I'm worried about Ness and Mario. Please just slap them on the wrist and give them less damage or something

If anything, they should buff his alts and give him a ****ing green sleeves alt already PLEASE

I'm with you lol I need the green sleeves

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Honestly, I can't see Pac-Man getting touched at all from the patch. If anything maybe he'd get buffed a little.

He's not OP, he's pretty okay at a standing point. I think we're in the clear.

If anything, they should buff his alts and give him a ****ing green sleeves alt already PLEASE

Agreed with all of this. There are some changes I'd like to see (Bair getting buffed in knockback, Dair linking better and having a better launch trajectory/distance), but for the most part, I think Pac-Man is pretty well-off. The only change I'd advocate for as a "necessity" is the long-wanted fix to his janky grab-box.

It is really weird, too, how Pac-Man doesn't have a green palette. Only he and Shulk (and maybe Duck Hunt, if I recall) share this quality. What's even more perplexing for Pac-Man is that he has an extra yellow alt. The nearly all-yellow sphere has an alt that makes him even more yellow. What kind of pills were they munching when they made that decision? I'd love to have a green sleeves alt. Green sleeves are all my joy. Green sleeves are my delight.

 

[Galaxian]

Agreed with all of this. There are some changes I'd like to see (Bair getting buffed in knockback, Dair linking better and having a better launch trajectory/distance), but for the most part, I think Pac-Man is pretty well-off. The only change I'd advocate for as a "necessity" is the long-wanted fix to his janky grab-box.

It is really weird, too, how Pac-Man doesn't have a green palette. Only he and Shulk (and maybe Duck Hunt, if I recall) share this quality. What's even more perplexing for Pac-Man is that he has an extra yellow alt. The nearly all-yellow sphere has an alt that makes him even more yellow. What kind of pills were they munching when they made that decision? I'd love to have a green sleeves alt. Green sleeves are all my joy. Green sleeves are my delight.

Dair really needs a better use, if it was like Kirby's dair then it'd be amazing. Grab range is obvious, though, but that'll probably get fixed. I can't imagine why they'd touch him at all.

If they remove Bonus Fruit Special Canceling I'll cry. I can't see why they'd do that though.

If we got green sleeves I'd probably stop using oven mitts for them