ckm
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Messages
- 402
I was thinking it might be nice to have a list of effective ways to edgeguard/gimp/off-the-stage KO specific characters, particularly the more commonly played characters and those that are bad matchups for MK. I will continue to edit and update this list, if people contribute and think this is a good idea.
I'll get it started, but there are quite a few that I dont have very good strategies against and would appreciate input.
Keep in mind, my suggested tactics are not necessarily the best ones... I certainly have alot of room to improve in this area, but thats kinda why I wanted to make this thread. This way, we can see what other people use, and figure out what works best.
Snake: SL or n-air him while hes on his cypher. Often snake players will use this recovery and aim it for a very high return, hoping to avoid being hit. I usually start flying up as soon as they are knocked off, so I can be right in their face as they come back. Also remember that you can SL without fear of suiciding because even if he jumps off the cypher, you will hit the cypher causing you to be able to recover. In other words, be aggressive with it. SL seems to work better than n-air in my experience, for most situations. Also, you can grab his cypher if he recovers too close to the stage.
Falco/Fox: N-airs work well due to the long duration of the move, so you dont have to have perfect timing. This can often hit them out of the move or at least clank with it, causing them to have to use it again. I also somtimes try to reverse shuttle loop them as they are using their recovery... if you time it right, they will just fly back out and KO. Kinda tough to time though. Also, if you can catch them as they are using their UpB, before they fly, you can ko them pretty easily. D-air works well for this. Another note: if you know they are going to overshoot the ledge and try to land on the stage, you can just start up a tornado and they will fly right into it, hooking you up with some free damage, and possible combos.
Game & Watch: I have had trouble keeping him off the stage in the past, but if you have trouble d-air gimping him before he uses his return, I have found that alot of G&W players will use their parachute right next to the edge, and end up popping up over onto the stage. This is a great opportunity to land a shuttle loop KO.
Marth: Marth's swim combo seems to have gotten nerfed pretty badly in brawl. I dont have much trouble keeping him off the stage. D-airs seem to work well when he is recovering, and edgehogging at the right moment will kill him really easily. His upB is very commonly used to sweetspot the edge, and if they dont sweetspot it, it leaves them vulnerable to attack right after landing.
Pokemon Trainer: 1) Ivysaur: Ivysaur is pretty easy to edgehog when he is returning. His return is a tether-type, and even if you have no invincibility frames left, all it will do is hit you, and he will still fall to his death. A good player might shoot you with razor leaf to get you off the stage first, but if you time it right, and make use of the invincibility, he will go down fairly easily. He is also fairly easy to combo with a fair, fair, SL for the KO.
2) Charizard: This guy has 2 options when returning. He can try to glide back above, or go below and use his upB. I have found the best way is to cover both bases by edgehogging, then if he goes above, hit him with a reverse shuttle loop. If he tries to go below, you can either dair or time your invincibility to edgehog his upB.
3) Squirtle: Again, he is fairly easy to edgehog if he cant make it back onto the stage. In the event that he can make it, I usually try to Dair him when he is on his way under the stage, before he uses his return.
Lucario: The main thing with Lucario is to remember that his return is not offensive. In other words, it doesnt hurt you at all if you are holding the edge and he flies at you. The only thing you need to watch out for is his projectile, which shouldnt be too tough if you keep on the lookout for it.
Thats all I have time for at the moment, but feel free to contribute if you have something youd like to share.
I'll get it started, but there are quite a few that I dont have very good strategies against and would appreciate input.
Keep in mind, my suggested tactics are not necessarily the best ones... I certainly have alot of room to improve in this area, but thats kinda why I wanted to make this thread. This way, we can see what other people use, and figure out what works best.
Snake: SL or n-air him while hes on his cypher. Often snake players will use this recovery and aim it for a very high return, hoping to avoid being hit. I usually start flying up as soon as they are knocked off, so I can be right in their face as they come back. Also remember that you can SL without fear of suiciding because even if he jumps off the cypher, you will hit the cypher causing you to be able to recover. In other words, be aggressive with it. SL seems to work better than n-air in my experience, for most situations. Also, you can grab his cypher if he recovers too close to the stage.
Falco/Fox: N-airs work well due to the long duration of the move, so you dont have to have perfect timing. This can often hit them out of the move or at least clank with it, causing them to have to use it again. I also somtimes try to reverse shuttle loop them as they are using their recovery... if you time it right, they will just fly back out and KO. Kinda tough to time though. Also, if you can catch them as they are using their UpB, before they fly, you can ko them pretty easily. D-air works well for this. Another note: if you know they are going to overshoot the ledge and try to land on the stage, you can just start up a tornado and they will fly right into it, hooking you up with some free damage, and possible combos.
Game & Watch: I have had trouble keeping him off the stage in the past, but if you have trouble d-air gimping him before he uses his return, I have found that alot of G&W players will use their parachute right next to the edge, and end up popping up over onto the stage. This is a great opportunity to land a shuttle loop KO.
Marth: Marth's swim combo seems to have gotten nerfed pretty badly in brawl. I dont have much trouble keeping him off the stage. D-airs seem to work well when he is recovering, and edgehogging at the right moment will kill him really easily. His upB is very commonly used to sweetspot the edge, and if they dont sweetspot it, it leaves them vulnerable to attack right after landing.
Pokemon Trainer: 1) Ivysaur: Ivysaur is pretty easy to edgehog when he is returning. His return is a tether-type, and even if you have no invincibility frames left, all it will do is hit you, and he will still fall to his death. A good player might shoot you with razor leaf to get you off the stage first, but if you time it right, and make use of the invincibility, he will go down fairly easily. He is also fairly easy to combo with a fair, fair, SL for the KO.
2) Charizard: This guy has 2 options when returning. He can try to glide back above, or go below and use his upB. I have found the best way is to cover both bases by edgehogging, then if he goes above, hit him with a reverse shuttle loop. If he tries to go below, you can either dair or time your invincibility to edgehog his upB.
3) Squirtle: Again, he is fairly easy to edgehog if he cant make it back onto the stage. In the event that he can make it, I usually try to Dair him when he is on his way under the stage, before he uses his return.
Lucario: The main thing with Lucario is to remember that his return is not offensive. In other words, it doesnt hurt you at all if you are holding the edge and he flies at you. The only thing you need to watch out for is his projectile, which shouldnt be too tough if you keep on the lookout for it.
Thats all I have time for at the moment, but feel free to contribute if you have something youd like to share.
