Character Discussion Thread

[Kenith]

For those of you who don't automatically dismiss character who have an Assist trophy, I just finished a moveset for Ghirahim. It's based around all of the applications of his magic, so he creates his magic knives, uses all of his swords, and summons monsters to help him.

Spoiler

Ghirahim Smash Bros Moveset
By KTG

Ghirahim is the main antagonist of The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. He is distinct due to his disturbing, flamboyant personality and his skill with swords. He is actually the sword of the Demon
King Demise, and has control over his numerious monsters.

This moveset revolves around Ghirahim's quick but deadly swordplay and ability to summon many monsters to assist him.

Notes:

- Ghirahim's smash attacks are slow but disjointed, while his tilts and aerials are very fast.
- Ghirahim has a float, like Peach.
- Ghirahim is average weight, but floaty.
- Ghirahim's walk is one of the slowest, while his run is one of the fastest.

Neutral special move: Shadow Knives:
Ghirahim throws up to five blindingly fast daggers in an arc. If the attack hits up close all of the daggers will hit, doing significantly more damage.

Side special move: Skyward Strike:
Ghirahim charges his sword with energy and releases it as a slow moving projectile that his multiple times. It can't be charges in the air, unlike Shadow Knives.

Up Special move: Warp:
A short ranged teleport that does damage as he vanishes, but not as he reappears. However, Ghirahim is invincible while warping.

Down special move: Octorok Sentry:
Ghirahim creates an Octorok that fires rocks at the closest enemy until it is killed. Pressing button again will make the Octorok explode. If the Octorok is killed by an enemy he will have to wait ten seconds to summon him again.

Final Smash: Final Form:
Ghirahim transforms into his Sword Spirit form. His attack power and speed are drastically increased, and he is immune to flinching or being launched. After 15 seconds, he will revert back to his humanoid form.

----
Entrance: Ghirahim appears in a flash of light with his back facing the camera, and removes his sword from the ground.
----------
Jab: Ghirahim slashes horizontally with his sword three times, then creates a second sword in his other hand and repeatedly stabs with both before ending with a downward slash.

F-tilt: Ghirahim quickly thrusts with his sword.
U-tilt: Ghirahim creates a second sword and slashes upwards with both swords twice.
D-tilt: Ghirahim does a quick sweeping kick that can trip enemies.

N-air: Shadow daggers surround Ghirahim and do damage.
F-air: Ghirahim stabs twice forward.
B-air: Ghirahim stabs behind him twice.
U-air: Ghirahim does a spinning stab upward.
D-air: Ghirahim performs a downward thrust that sends him crashing downward.

Dash attack: Ghirahim creates a huge sword and spins with it, the momentum causing his spin with the sword twice.
----------
F-smash: Ghirahim creates a Bokoblin that slashes forward twice.
U-smash: Ghirahim gestures giant swords to rise from the ground on either side of him.
D-smash: Ghirahim creates two Blade Traps and sends them away from both sides.
----------
Pummel: Ghirahim bashes the enemy with his sword's hilt.
F-throw: Ghirahim throws the opponent ahead of them and fires two knives at them.
B-throw: Ghirahim throws the enemy behind them while kicking them.
U-throw: Ghirahim throws the enemy up as a circle of knives impales them.
D-throw: Ghirahim jumps, tosses the enemy down and then detonates the ground below them.

Downed attack: Ghirahim performs a full sweep kick before jumping to his feet.
Ledge attack: Ghirahim stabs with his sword.
Ledge attack (100%): Ghirahim weakly stabs with his sword.
----------
U-taunt: Ghirahim poses while waving his sword in a circular motion. Same as Assist Trophy.
S-taunt: Ghirahim chuckles as his cape flows and he is encircled by knives.
D-taunt: Ghirahim flares his tongue while posing. Same as Assist Trophy.

Victory pose 1: Ghirahim disappears and reappears while doing overdramatic poses.
Victory pose 2: Ghirahim furiously slashes with his two swords before posing with them.
Victory pose 3: Ghirahim, with his back to the camera, creates humerous Bokoblins and then points to the camera while laughing.

I'm pretty happy that I managed to sneak so many nods into this moveset, but I feel like there could be more. Particularly, he doesn't create barriers like in Hyrule Warriors. I wanted him to throw knives in his standard moves like in Hyrule Warriors, but I felt it would be overpowered.
Ghirahim might be a strain on the 3DS's hardware, also, what with the monsters, and unlike Pac-Man, they're in 3d.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I feel like assist trophies aren't 100% doomed.....but they'd have to gain a LOT of popularity for them to be added as character dlc.

Like if Dillon became a household name overnight.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I think assist trophies are just flat out done for as far as DLC goes.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

It would take a miracle for an AT to become playable in the same game. What's the point of making a character an AT if they're going to be made playable via DLC anyway? It just feels like a waste to do that really.

But if Ghirahim was ever made playable, you could bet that he would be one of my mains.

 

[Deleted member]

"Ubisoft betraying Nintendo."

When will people understand that these are companies that need to make money in order to operate and stay in business?

This isn't some kid selling out his friend to get out of trouble, there's no betrayal, there's nothing.

It still was a huge disappointment for Nintendo and Rayman fans, and one of the main causes which has triggered players' hatred for Ubisoft today.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It still was a huge disappointment for Nintendo and Rayman fans, and one of the main causes which has triggered players' hatred for Ubisoft today.

Hatred is a strong word buddy.

If people hate Ubisoft over that then they have problems.

 

[Kenith]

It would take a miracle for an AT to become playable in the same game. What's the point of making a character an AT if they're going to be made playable via DLC anyway? It just feels like a waste to do that really.

It's not like the DLC is all predetermined. See, because Sakurai hates Zelda, he chose to never include a new Zelda character ever, therefore he does not plan to change that through DLC. But maybe, MAYBE if he sees the potential they have he'll change his tune.
This is applicable to more than just Ghirahim, by the way. Also, Ridley, King K. Rool.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

It would take a miracle for an AT to become playable in the same game. What's the point of making a character an AT if they're going to be made playable via DLC anyway? It just feels like a waste to do that really.

But if Ghirahim was ever made playable, you could bet that he would be one of my mains.

For one thing, the assist trophy wouldn't necessarily be thrown away. They may just not appear as an assist while they're fighting. Also, it wouldn't make sense to add characters as ATs if they were being planned as dlc, but Sakurai has already stated that he didn't start working on dlc until after the games were finished. Things change over time, perspectives change.

Secondly, the whole point of dlc is that a game can continue to grow after release. What made sense for a character at one point in time may no longer make sense at a later point in time. If any of the current ATs became super popular it might be worth invalidating their previous work in order to make even greater gains by selling the character as dlc.

I don't think playable ATs are very likely at all, but I think it would be careless and presumptuous to ignore the possibility altogether.

 

[JamesDNaux]

It still was a huge disappointment for Nintendo and Rayman fans, and one of the main causes which has triggered players' hatred for Ubisoft today.

Fan disappointment? Part of the reason that Ubisoft made it multiplatform was because of fans complaining about the game being exclusive when Origins was on pretty much everything you could blink at. I was upset that I had to wait even longer for the game, despite the fact that I was set on getting the Wii U version, but it wasn't anything to get mad at. **** happens.

If people hate Ubisoft over that then they have problems.

Unfortunately, people hate Ubisoft for far more petty reasons.

 

[Kenith]

For one thing, the assist trophy wouldn't necessarily be thrown away. They may just not appear as an assist while they're fighting. Also, it wouldn't make sense to add characters as ATs if they were being planned as dlc, but Sakurai has already stated that he didn't start working on dlc until after the games were finished. Things change over time, perspectives change.

Secondly, the whole point of dlc is that a game can continue to grow after release. What made sense for a character at one point in time may no longer make sense at a later point in time. If any of the current ATs became super popular it might be worth invalidating their previous work in order to make even greater gains by selling the character as dlc.

I don't think playable ATs are very likely at all, but I think it would be careless and presumptuous to ignore the possibility altogether.

All of this. And I stand by the fact that people thought Mewtwo would never happen because he was already a trophy. And if want to say that Assist Trophies are a different case, well, they are, but that doesn't change the fact it's an excuse.

By the way @ JamesDNaux like your banner!

 

[Lilfut]

A tier
Fiora

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Well for third parties they do have to do licensing stuff, but if it was solely on character merits, Snake might have come back, Ubisoft kind of turned me against them with their actions.

Rayman could serve as an olive branch between Nintendo and Ubisoft. That's probably the only way I see him getting in.

I see where you're coming from, but I still disagree. Rayman would get in because Rayman deserves to get in, as opposed to Ubisoft. That's my opinion. I don't even think he's super likely.

 

[Selenite]

Well.

We're just going to have to support Rayman and Snake up the wazoo.




And a thought, Rayman is published by Nintendo in Japan right? So they own a partial amount of the IP. (Probably very small). Do you think that would help him at all?

Just because a Rayman game was published by Nintendo in Japan doesn't mean they "partially own the IP" unless they become co-owners like the Fatal Frame Franchise but even then Tecmo Koei remains the sole owner of the Fatal Frame / Project Zero IP and franchise. Nintendo co-owns the rights to Fatal Frame IV, the Spirit Camera spin-off, Project Zero 2: Wii Edition, Fatal Frame V and all future installments of the series but not the IP itself. Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge was published by Nintendo so do they partially own the IP? No. Bayonetta 2 was published by Nintendo do they have some ownership over the IP? No. Devil's Third is being published by Nintendo does that mean they own the IP? No.

So either Nintendo owns a IP by purchasing it off an IP holder or they don't own it at all.

 

[Lilfut]

Mod squad strikes again

Do not post pictures with censored words in them.

 

[Kenith]

I see where you're coming from, but I still disagree. Rayman would get in because Rayman deserves to get in, as opposed to Ubisoft. That's my opinion. I don't even think he's super likely.

I agree, not to mention I have yet to find a compelling argument he "deserves" to get in besides uniqueness.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Most people in general don't really care about ATs at all, it's not like they will suddenly gain a decent following after they seen the AT, characters playable in the game usually get that kind of attention.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I agree, not to mention I have yet to find a compelling argument he "deserves" to get in besides uniqueness.

He's also a huge gaming icon bro.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Just to get this out there...

I know alot of people here on smashboards still support characters who have been made into ATs or Trophies in this game and I don't think they'll stop supporting them until told others, heck, maybe not even then.

And don't we all remember Little Mac? How he was made into an AT in Brawl but, due to massive fan demand, was made into a character the next game?

Well, now with the idea with DLC we don't have to wait for a whole new game to be made just so we can see some ATs in the next Smash Bros.

And now that the game is done Sakurai and his team over at namco don't have massive deadlines to fill and can take their time with the DLC characters and then make a new Deadline.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I agree, not to mention I have yet to find a compelling argument he "deserves" to get in besides uniqueness.

He is one of few gaming icons to come even close to comparing with the 3 we have, but his main issue is that he simply doesn't yet, and he'd clearly stick out as the lesser of the 4. Snake would simply be an exception as he was in Brawl, but he's otherwise in the same boat.

 

[Kenith]

He is one of few gaming icons to come even close to comparing with the 3 we have, but his main issue is that he simply doesn't yet, and he'd clearly stick out as the lesser of the 4. Snake would simply be an exception as he was in Brawl, but he's otherwise in the same boat.

I know he's iconic, but so is Master Chief and Goku. Do they deserve to be in Smash? No.
I mean, obviously Rayman has a lot more going for him than them, but it's definitely not enough.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I know he's iconic, but so is Master Chief and Goku. Do they deserve to be in Smash? No.
I mean, obviously Rayman has a lot more going for him than them, but it's definitely not enough.

No character "deserves" to be in Smash, certainly not Sonic, Mega Man, or Pac-Man.

It's a video game, and if a character gets in, it's not some sacred right of passage.

People like to go out of their way to make excuses for characters that do get in. No one wanted Miss Fit, but after she showed up people started back tracking with "oh, Wii Fit has tons of sales, so it's obvious that she deserved a sacred roster slot."

When the truth is nothing more than Sakurai adding her because Sakurai.

If Rayman got in people would start saying how relevant he is to Nintendo and how he got in because Ubisoft supported the Wii U in the beginning. Of course, that doesn't include everyone, there are people that still complain about some characters getting in.


That's why I don't go around spouting BS about Rayman being a Nintendo friendly third party. He started out on the Jaguar, lived a good life with Sony and Nintendo, and continues to do so. I want Rayman because he's Rayman, and that's all that matters.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I know he's iconic, but so is Master Chief and Goku. Do they deserve to be in Smash? No.
I mean, obviously Rayman has a lot more going for him than them, but it's definitely not enough.

I agree. If he gets in, there should be AT LEAST one other third alongside him that sits at about the same level. I mean, no ones gonna top those 3, but I don't think it means thirds should stop.

 

[Kenith]

No character "deserves" to be in Smash, certainly not Sonic, Mega Man, or Pac-Man.
It's a video game, and if a character gets in, it's not some sacred right of passage.
People like to go out of their way to make excuses for characters that do get in. No one wanted Miss Fit, but after she showed up people started back tracking with "oh, Wii Fit has tons of sales, so it's obvious that she deserved a sacred roster slot."
When the truth is nothing more than Sakurai adding her because Sakurai.
If Rayman got in people would start saying how relevant he is to Nintendo and how he got in because Ubisoft supported the Wii U in the beginning. Of course, that doesn't include everyone, there are people that still complain about some characters getting in.
That's why I don't go around spouting BS about Rayman being a Nintendo friendly third party. He started out on the Jaguar, lived a good life with Sony and Nintendo, and continues to do so. I want Rayman because he's Rayman, and that's all that matters.

Good for you. But it's quite obvious that you and everyone else wanting isn't "all that matters" to the person who is going through the trouble to add Rayman to Smash Bros. Sakurai isn't going to add Rayman because "Sakurai". He's going to add him because he sees something in his moveset potential. Ergo, he finds him deserving.

Also, while every character being evaluated by whether or not they "deserve" to be in Smash is flawed, it's equally foolish to say that it is completely arbitrary if a character is deserving or not, especially when other companies' characters are involved in a game about Nintendo's history..

 

[JamesDNaux]

Good for you. But it's quite obvious that you and everyone else wanting isn't "all that matters" to the person who is going through the trouble to add Rayman to Smash Bros. Sakurai isn't going to add Rayman because "Sakurai". He's going to add him because he sees something in his moveset potential. Ergo, he finds him deserving.

Also, while every character being evaluated by whether or not they "deserve" to be in Smash is flawed, it's equally foolish to say that it is completely arbitrary if a character is deserving or not, especially when other companies' characters are involved in a game about Nintendo's history..

Except the "Nintendo's history" thing is nothing but an afterthought. This game started out as something completely original, lacking Nintendo characters entirely. If "deserving" equates to "moveset potential," then there's absolutely nothing about Rayman that isn't deserving. Let's remember Sakurai's own criteria for a third party character: Must have at least one game on Nintendo consoles. We even have Snake himself, Sakurai added him for a friend, not because he has anything to do with Nintendo.

If Sakurai adds Rayman, you can be sure it's not because a bunch of people on a forum decided that he was "worthy of Nintendo."

 

[Kenith]

I'm just going to be blunt and say it is really biased to tell me Rayman is anywhere near the levels of Sonic, Pac-Man or Mega Man.
And before you say that's not what you're saying, it is definitely implied.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'm just going to be blunt and say it is really biased to tell me Rayman is anywhere near the levels of Sonic, Pac-Man or Mega Man.

Care to tell me exactly where I said that? Because I sure don't recall it.

No one is on the level of Pac-Man, and Sonic is nearly Mario's level. Mega Man though? Rayman is surely at or above it.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Lets just put it like this. At this point in time. Every character has a chance while also having no chance at all.

Dig it?

 

[BKupa666]

No character "deserves" to be in Smash, certainly not Sonic, Mega Man, or Pac-Man.

It's a video game, and if a character gets in, it's not some sacred right of passage.

People like to go out of their way to make excuses for characters that do get in. No one wanted Miss Fit, but after she showed up people started back tracking with "oh, Wii Fit has tons of sales, so it's obvious that she deserved a sacred roster slot."

When the truth is nothing more than Sakurai adding her because Sakurai.

If Rayman got in people would start saying how relevant he is to Nintendo and how he got in because Ubisoft supported the Wii U in the beginning. Of course, that doesn't include everyone, there are people that still complain about some characters getting in.

That's why I don't go around spouting BS about Rayman being a Nintendo friendly third party. He started out on the Jaguar, lived a good life with Sony and Nintendo, and continues to do so. I want Rayman because he's Rayman, and that's all that matters.

This is a good post.

Judging by post-game interviews, the roster selection process is much simpler than we previously thought. It boils down to "Sakurai assembles a large character pool based on popular requests, new games and his favorites, then throws darts at a board, justifying the choices as unique as needed."

 

[Deathlightning21]

This is a good post.

Judging by post-game interviews, the roster selection process is much simpler than we previously thought. It boils down to "Sakurai assembles a large character pool based on popular requests, new games and his favorites, then throws darts at a board, justifying the choices as unique as needed."

So did a dart hit Chrom and Sakurai quickly yank it out of place at put it on Robin's face instead?

 

[Chandeelure]

Might as well leave this here

S tier
Mewtwo

A tier
Wolf, Fiora, Krystal, King K Rool

B tier
Issac, Mach Rider, Reyn, Sceptile

C tier
Impa, Black Shadow, Lucas

LOL tier
Any third party characters, Bandana Dee

A terrible and biased tier list?

 

[Deathlightning21]

A terrible and biased tier list?

Who needs tier lists for DLC characters? Is there some meta I am missing out on here?

Do DLC characters have sick combos and aeigies relfectors?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

A terrible and biased tier list?

Says the guy who (obviously) can't stop about this whole Bandana Dee thing, and the guy who gave me a 0/10 rating for a lol tier that had Tails, a character we're all pretty sure won't be in.

 

[Chandeelure]

Says the guy who (obviously) can't stop about this whole Bandana Dee thing, and the guy who gave me a 0/10 rating for a lol tier that had Tails, a character we're all pretty sure won't be in.

The 0/10 thing was a joke, and it wasn't because Tails, it was because you said Bandana Dee has no chances only because you don't like the character.
You ignore the fact that he is popular, important, relevant and has potential, maybe he is not "super likely", but he has chances.

Also...I know Sakurai is unpredictable, but Krystal, Black Shadow, Fiora, Sceptile and Reyn above him is just pure bias.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

The 0/10 thing was a joke, and it wasn't because Tails, it was because you said Bandana Dee has no chances only because you don't like the character.
You ignore the fact that he is popular, important, relevant and has potential, maybe he is not "super likely", but he has chances.

Also...I know Sakurai is unpredictable, but Krystal, Black Shadow, Fiora, Sceptile and Reyn above him is just pure bias.

I don't doubt that Bandana Dee is an all right character, I just doubt he will have a good moveset

And for Krystal: Does the year of StarFox not tip you off?

Fiora and Reyn: With rating Bandana Dee higher than them, I'm convinced that maybe you can't tell that Nintendo owns Monolith Soft

As for sceptile, I'm aware we already have a pokemon DLC character, but I'm also taking into consideration that we just got generation 3 remakes.

The only bias I'll admit to is Black Shadow. Heck, I don't even play F-Zero.

 

[Chandeelure]

I don't doubt that Bandana Dee is an all right character, I just doubt he will have a good moveset

And for Krystal: Does the year of StarFox not tip you off?

Fiora and Reyn: With rating Bandana Dee higher than them, I'm convinced that maybe you can't tell that Nintendo owns Monolith Soft

As for sceptile, I'm aware we already have a pokemon DLC character, but I'm also taking into consideration that we just got generation 3 remakes.

The only bias I'll admit to is Black Shadow. Heck, I don't even play F-Zero.

Bandana Dee: He has potential for an unique moveset. Obviously thanks to his spear, BUT also (and don't say no because Smash makes no sense most of the time) parasols and other objects that Waddle Dees can use. Oh, or something like clay lines or something based in the Kirby Rainbow Curse Wii U game.

Krystal: Not even Wolf is in the game and he is just more popular, relevant and MUCH more important than a love interest (I'm not biased against her, I would like Krystal more than Wolf).
Maybe if the two characters are DLC, but Sakurai cut Wolf for a reason.

Xenoblade characters: About Monolith Soft, I know that...everybody knows that. If you don't know why Fiora and Reyn are weird choices, you are the confused, not me.

Sceptile: Is just a weird choice based in one remake that will probably not have representation with a character, also, just an excuse to replace Ivysaur. Blaziken is much more popular (I would love Sceptile).

Black Shadow: The problem with him is that Ganondorf is still a clone of Captain Falcon and F-Zero is practically dead.

 

[SmashChu]

Oh, their arguments were pretty poor and not well thought out? You were trying to tie in a law that was outright backwards in regards to the argument, it only even remotely applied because you don't seem to be able to extend your vision of the Smash fanbase outside of speculation forums! One guy thought you were talking about Ice Cream because you did try to reference Ice Cream to support your arguments, and it was utterly nonsensical, to the point that even you seem to not be able to remember it.

This is what Rayman arguments look like.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post because you can't create a cohesive argument and instead play quote soup and have 10 separate lines. Do you expect me to waste my time with that? I'd be happy to have a discussion if you had an argument but what you have is a mangled mess and any point was quickly lost (notice how I tend to just have one quote. Yeah, there is a reason for that). Your post also tells me you have no knowledge of economics because what I was posting is an economics law. I gave you the name and explained it in practice and you all have the ability to operate Google. The only silver lining was one guy actually looked it up and gave me a definition and then proceeded to misinterpret it. I should not have to explain how the "Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility" applies to the idea that people will get less enjoyment from third party characters then they had with Sonic and Megaman. They are one in the same. I also expected you all to understand that an analogy to explain the law is not the law. I expected you all to understand that, or at least use Google when you are unsure of something but damn it, you proved me wrong again. BTW, Investopedia uses pizza because it's easy to understand the law using food. Consum more food, get less benefit, then get sick. That doesn't mean it's about food and had you done even the slightest bit of research (i.e., pop that bad boy into Google) you would have known it's that.

I guess this is what I get for trying to having an intellectual conversation on Smashboards.

Gee that was kinda scary. If Sakurai was creating the roster based on these people a lot of iconic and important Nintendo characters would be cut. We probably wouldn't have Metroid representation at all. Fire Emblem would be completely out the window too.

I don't think the masses really care about who gets added now. As long as they have Mario, Pikachu, Sonic etc they'll be more or less happy. There's a big song and dance made about the silent majority, but I think the silent majority is largely satisfied at this point.

That's a good point, and I expect it will get worse over time (Arcadenik was getting to this). I think the issue with third-party characters, in particular, they need to have a bit more presence. People wouldn't be that excited for, say, Shantae, even though she could be an interesting character. With the Nintendo characters, you have more wiggle room in both theme (this is a Nintendo fighting game) and cost (no royalties). A third party character should feel special because it's a special occurrence. I don't think there is anyone left who will do that.

There is a smaller problem but each time you add a third party series, you have to expand the content: trophies, stages, and music. It makes the project a lot bigger than, say, another Fire Emblem character.

To add onto this, as Kalimdori said, the fanbase is far more than SmashBoards. This is some serious tunnel vision that a lot of people here need to get out of. So interest in third party characters is decreasing here (which isn't as true as SmashChu likes to say at every turn, if there were not interest for third party characters, then there would be no threads here in support of them)? That means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Even if you want to say that interest in third parties is decreasing across the entire Smash fanbase as a whole (which is abhorrently untrue), this neglects to include said character's own fanbase. Logically speaking, and even with evidence to back it up, as we have seen previously with Snake (and Pac-Man to an extent), if even a large portion of the Smash fanbase no longer cares for third party characters, should a character (such as Rayman) become playable, a large portion of their fanbase would then join into the Smash fanbase. By the basic fundamentals of this, the portion of the Smash fanbase that is no longer interested in third parties would be mostly equalized by the new people melding in.

Tl;dr, It means jack **** if people from the Smash fanbase don't want third party characters, because people from outside of the community would join if their own favorite character showed up. Thus the fanbase in question has renewed interest.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. The people who want third party characters are already fans of the game. Adding Megaman and Sonic didn't expand the fanbases because the people asking for those characters were already interested in the Smash Brothers. That's why they were asking for them in the first place. In the same vein, if what you say is true, the director could add characters from new series, like Splatoon and Codename Steam, and it would have the same effect. This assumes that these groups are entirely independent (or even exist as measurable groups) which is likely not the case. As the video I posted showed, about half of the people knew Megaman. It is unlikely that a lot of people would know Rayman, Simon, Bomberman, or Shovel Knight. Smash has always appealed to people who were interested in video games who knew these characters. They'd also know some of the more obscure characters, or know where to look to find out more. So I don't think that adding third parties expands the game in anyway. Like I said before, Melee and 64 did fine without third party characters so they may not be as big of a driver as people think.

And actually, I'll sum up all of these with this point: do any of you think there is a character that would create more interest than Sonic or Megaman?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I made a Christmas song about the newcomers and our favorite space dragon. I made it a long time, but I thought I'd wait till the Christmas season to post it. Hope you enjoy.

Spoiler

You know Villager and Wii Fit Trainer and Rosalina and Little Mac, Greninja and Palutena and Robin and Shulk, but do you recall the most wanted newcomer of all? Ridley the big space dragon was an extremely large guy and if you ever saw him you would know that's not a lie. All of the Ridley haters used to laugh and mock his size, they hated Ridley so much that they'ed even make up lies. Then one development day, Sakurai came to say, Ridley with your size so big, I made you a boss, can you dig? Ridley got really angry, and killed everyone promptly, Ridley the big space dragon you'll go down in infamy.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I'd just like to put something out here..... I believe that Wolf and Lucas will be back. Otherwise, Sakurai would have made Lucas and Wolf closer to Ness and Fox. There is a reason they were in Brawl over Dr. Mario.

Why was Doc added first? He wouldn't be worthy DLC compared to Wolf and Lucas.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Ya, sometimes people will just straight up save something for DLC because it will get them more money.

 

[SmashChu]

I'd just like to put something out here..... I believe that Wolf and Lucas will be back. Otherwise, Sakurai would have made Lucas and Wolf closer to Ness and Fox. There is a reason they were in Brawl over Dr. Mario.

Why was Doc added first? He wouldn't be worthy DLC compared to Wolf and Lucas.

Ya, sometimes people will just straight up save something for DLC because it will get them more money.

We know Dr. Mario was done because he would have been a costume. Lucas and Wolf are a bit more involved. From how Sakurai is talking, they haven't decided any plans for DLC and Mewtwo is a test. I don't think they planned Lucas and Wolf for DLC off the bat.