Character Discussion Thread

[The Light Music Club]

Duck hunt dog? i mean i have nothing against the idea, but what makes you think he's got a chance?

For a few reasons.
1. I'm confident that we will get a retro character. (Takamaru, Mach Rider, or DHD specifically).
2. Sakurai is a troll. And Duck Hunt Dog in his nature is the troll of gaming. He actually mocks the player. He would fit in perfectly in the smash world too.
3. We don't have a true gun user, and Duck Hunt Dog could either use the Zapper as a special, or have it as part of his final smash. So it adds flavor to the roster. Not only that, but he could use ducks and skeet as well. He could hit people with throwing the skeet, and recover using the ducks. It seems like his kind of move set would be something Sakurai could create; using random objects from his game as attacks.
4. Not only are Game and Watch and R.O.B. retro, but they also represent hardware. DHD would represent the Zapper, one of the things many people remember about the NES.

That and some personal bias because I think he'd be a funny character. DHD is Sakurai if he was a video game character. It's an oddball pick that makes sense. He's a classic NES character that everyone who played the NES knew. Who doesn't remember Duck Hunt? And since it's an oddball pick, that if he was included would make total sense in hindsight. (See WFT)

 

[~Krystal~]

Duck hunt dog? i mean i have nothing against the idea, but what makes you think he's got a chance?

To be fair, since Duck Hunt and Mario Bros. were sold in tandem on the same cartridge, Duck Hunt got a massive amount of exposure for ANY era. It's by no means ridiculous to say that Duck Hunt Dog is in fact the most iconic first party retro character.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Since I'm not great at arguing. I'm calling @ Con0rrrr since he loves to argue about leaks.

Ever since people have called Gematsu 100% fake because of one small thing that is easily explained, I just discuss them, not argue them. I can deal with stubbornness, but ignorance is something that makes me want to break my laptop screen.

So I'd rather not lol

 

[Oddliestotter]

For a few reasons.
1. I'm confident that we will get a retro character. (Takamaru, Mach Rider, or DHD specifically).
2. Sakurai is a troll. And Duck Hunt Dog in his nature is the troll of gaming. He actually mocks the player. He would fit in perfectly in the smash world too.
3. We don't have a true gun user, and Duck Hunt Dog could either use the Zapper as a special, or have it as part of his final smash. So it adds flavor to the roster. Not only that, but he could use ducks and skeet as well. He could hit people with throwing the skeet, and recover using the ducks. It seems like his kind of move set would be something Sakurai could create; using random objects from his game as attacks.
4. Not only are Game and Watch and R.O.B. retro, but they also represent hardware. DHD would represent the Zapper, one of the things many people remember about the NES.

That and some personal bias because I think he'd be a funny character. DHD is Sakurai if he was a video game character. It's an oddball pick that makes sense. He's a classic NES character that everyone who played the NES knew. Who doesn't remember Duck Hunt? And since it's an oddball pick, that if he was included would make total sense in hindsight. (See WFT)

Pretty good reasoning.

 

[domokl]

You konw that leak dosent seem so bad and it gets some details like lucina orginally being an alt.i m taking it with a grain of salt though.

 

[The Light Music Club]

To be fair, since Duck Hunt and Mario Bros. were sold in tandem on the same cartridge, Duck Hunt got a massive amount of exposure for ANY era. It's by no means ridiculous to say that Duck Hunt Dog is in fact the most iconic first party retro character.

Yep. Very true. I got my NES about two years ago at a Church auction (I was 14 at the time IIRC) and it came with Mario Bros/Duck Hunt. From the NES era: Ice Climber, Punch Out, Excite Bike (Might be wrong on this one), NES Open, Mario Bros., Dr. Mario, Metriod, Kirby, Yoshi, Gyromite, Donkey Kong, Kid Icarus, Megaman, and Zelda all have gotten representation in some form (Character, costume, Assist). Duck Hunt is one of the last best known/selling games of the NES to not get representation.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Did you read the Rayman part of the leak?

Yes I did. But I also read the part that said advance techniques can be toggled on/off, and the implication that Jiggypuff was cut. I just can't see those two things happening.

 

[Khoru]

Yes I did. But I also read the part that said advance techniques can be toggled on/off, and the implication that Jiggypuff was cut. I just can't see those two things happening.

there's no implication at all
the leaker said in a later post that there were thirteen unrevealed vets, counting mewtwo
the only way you can get to that is including two of pichu, lucas, snake, or dr mario

 

[Xzsmmc]

there's no implication at all
the leaker said in a later post that there were thirteen unrevealed vets, counting mewtwo
the only way you can get to that is including two of pichu, lucas, snake, or dr mario

Oh. I only read the OP, which said only two more Pokemon characters were coming. My bad.

 

[Zynux]

Because fan requests for content is unequal to fan requests for newcomers this time around, there are more rules applied for getting new characters in the roster, and fan requests alone won't easily seal the deal.

Assuming that people were actually requesting for Kremlings to appear in Smash (which is a debatable amongst itself and not something I personally witnessed, but that's a whole other topic), I don't understand. Why are fan requests for content arbitrarily different and more relevant to fan requests for characters? How are they unequal? What are these "new rules"? And are they even objectively consistent?

http://smashboards.com/threads/leak.360830/ ._.

I just skimmed his post, but what is noteworthy about this leak? Possible moderator verifications behind the scenes? Because all I see is a bunch of paragraphs that can neither be verified or refuted at this given time.

I'm being honest, I'm willing to listen. Leaks are inevitable. I am confident that Smash 4 will have legitimate leaks (if it doesn't have one obscure one lying around already), but I see no reason why I should give this guy a look at this given time.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Oh, by the way, here is my new roster.

 

[Chandeelure]

I just skimmed his post, but what is noteworthy about this leak? Possible moderator verifications behind the scenes? Because all I see is a bunch of paragraphs that can neither be verified or refuted at this given time.

I'm being honest, I'm willing to listen. Leaks are inevitable. I am confident that Smash 4 will have legitimate leaks (if it doesn't have one obscure one lying around already), but I see no reason why I should give this guy a look at this given time.

The leaker said that Lucina was a Marth costume and that you could play as her with or without the mask. He later said Chrom would not be playable because Sakurai thought he would be too similar to Marth and Ike. Also, he mentioned that Rayman had been planned to be playable but was scrapped. All of this was before Monday.

 

[Kenith]

This leak is interesting, but, like the Gematsu leak, clearly outdated (if either are valid).

EDIT: Although I'm skeptical of Dragon Roost Island, as the island itself doesn't have any interesting features that would make it worth a stage, plus I doubt we'd getting two "touring" stages from the same series.

 

[GamerGuy09]

This leak is interesting, but, like the Gematsu leak, clearly outdated (if either are valid).

Yeah, it is one of the few actual leaks that has some amount of substance. I'm keeping my eyes on it for now, at least I won't be bored over the weekend.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Oh, by the way, here is my new roster.

It's...Beautiful. Except for missing Black Shadow.

Believe it or not, I had the Duck Hunt Dog on my mind before, but never really considered how he'd work. Using the Zapper seems like it would be a creative idea. As long as he also uses ducks as battering weapons.

 

[Khoru]

This leak is interesting, but, like the Gematsu leak, clearly outdated (if either are valid).

ye the guy stated his informant was fired at some point earlier in dev
i really want to believe this (the roster is flawless to me), but i... need more proof, i guess

 

[The Light Music Club]

It's...Beautiful. Except for missing Black Shadow.

Believe it or not, I had the Duck Hunt Dog on my mind before, but never really considered how he'd work. Using the Zapper seems like it would be a creative idea. As long as he also uses ducks as battering weapons.

Yes, I didn't mention it in my earlier post, but I could see him using ducks to recover and also to attack.
And I had Black Shadow until I read Lucina was a special case.

Also for final smash, it could be similar to Snakes, or Brawl Pit. Snake via the Zapper, or Pit via a Duck storm of sorts.

 

[Kenith]

Yeah, it is one of the few actual leaks that has some amount of substance. I'm keeping my eyes on it for now, at least I won't be bored over the weekend.

I'll quote myself, I think this is important:

Although I'm skeptical of Dragon Roost Island, as the island itself doesn't have any interesting features that would make it worth a stage, plus I doubt we'd getting two "touring" stages from the same series.
And the newcomers he mentioned are a little obvious and fan-service-y, which is one of my major issues with Gematsu.

 

[GamerGuy09]

I'll quote myself, I think this is important:

Although I'm skeptical of Dragon Roost Island, as the island itself doesn't have any interesting features that would make it worth a stage, plus I doubt we'd getting two "touring" stages from the same series.
And the newcomers he mentioned are a little obvious and fan-service-y, which is one of my major issues with Gematsu.

Well....that's kind of the point right? Smash bros is basically "Fan-Service" the game.

But I agree with you.

 

[Zynux]

The leaker said that Lucina was a Marth costume and that you could play as her with or without the mask. He later said Chrom would not be playable because Sakurai thought he would be too similar to Marth and Ike. Also, he mentioned that Rayman had been planned to be playable but was scrapped. All of this was before Monday.

...But Lucina is playable.

Yes, it could be possible that he got his info early (after all, Lucina was planned to be an alt. costume and was probably a very late addition) but that is impossible to verify at this given time. Therefore, I still feel that missing Lucina as playable (instead of an alt) is still a big hole in his leak (for now). But predicting that Chrom was not in because of Sakurai's reasoning is in his favor though. So I guess it cancels out, and still makes me fairly neutral on it. And Rayman bit is also unverifiable, but the mentioning of Rayman at all before his reveal is also pretty interesting to say the least.

I also like how specific he is in some areas. So if he's bluffing, we'll know rather quickly.

I believe it deserves attention at least, so I'll keep an eye on it and thoroughly read his thread. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Kenith]

I actually am very interested in this leak. Unlike most of them, it doesn't just give us a list of already highly speculated characters and expect us to believe it based on that *cough* *cough*.
It goes into detail about gameplay nuances, stage descriptions, and the information he describes seems sort of like something Sakurai would do/say.

I'll take it with a grain of salt, but I'm not opposed to it. I mean, I am because it's a leak and spoils everything, but at least it's interesting.

Particularly the wavedashing and L-canceling.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

The leaker said that Lucina was a Marth costume and that you could play as her with or without the mask. He later said Chrom would not be playable because Sakurai thought he would be too similar to Marth and Ike. Also, he mentioned that Rayman had been planned to be playable but was scrapped. All of this was before Monday.

Not sure if I'm buying this part. Think it's possible Sakurai's trying to troll us like he's doing with Ridley?

 

[Maxilian]

Yes, I didn't mention it in my earlier post, but I could see him using ducks to recover and also to attack.
And I had Black Shadow until I read Lucina was a special case.

Also for final smash, it could be similar to Snakes, or Brawl Pit. Snake via the Zapper, or Pit via a Duck storm of sorts.

I still Black Shadow could be a great character even more if Ganondorf gets a new moveset, just give all the moves of Ganondorf from Brawl to Black Shadow, it will actually makes sense not like Falcondorf

 

[GamerGuy09]

I actually am very interested in this leak. Unlike most of them, it doesn't just give us a list of already highly speculated characters and expect us to believe it based on that *cough* *cough*.
It goes into detail about gameplay nuances, stage descriptions, and the information he describes seems sort of like something Sakurai would do/say.

I'll take it with a grain of salt, but I'm not opposed to it. I mean, I am because it's a leak and spoils everything, but at least it's interesting.

Particularly the wavedashing and L-canceling.

I find it more credible than Gematsu because Gematsu fell on its face multiple times while this hasn't....yet...

Anyway, it gives me something to do during the weekend.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I still Black Shadow could be a great character even more if Ganondorf gets a new moveset, just give all the moves of Ganondorf from Brawl to Black Shadow, it will actually makes sense not like Falcondorf

Personally, I think that Gdorf will get a new moveset. I just don't know if they'll make a whole new character to give that set to, especially since clones are only for special waifu-like cases now.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I still Black Shadow could be a great character even more if Ganondorf gets a new moveset, just give all the moves of Ganondorf from Brawl to Black Shadow, it will actually makes sense not like Falcondorf

Honestly, remnant of Falcondorf or not, I just want to see him and/or another F-Zero character. May be my only way to see any of them for a long time, since...

 

[Deleted member]

Something doesn't add up to me about this new "leak".

If there was bad blood between Nintendo and Ubisoft over the delay and losing Wii U exclusivity of Rayman Legends, why would Rayman be in Smash 4 in any capacity?

"We hate you for screwing us out of an exclusive title for our console, so we're taking your character out of Smash, but we'll go ahead and keep a trophy of him."
Seems legit.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Something doesn't add up to me about this new "leak".

If there was bad blood between Nintendo and Ubisoft over the delay and losing Wii U exclusivity of Rayman Legends, why would Rayman be in Smash 4 in any capacity?

"We hate you for screwing us out of an exclusive title for our console, so we're taking your character out of Smash, but we'll go ahead and keep a trophy of him."
Seems legit.

One of the reasons I'm not buying it. To borrow an argument used against Gematsu, with all the guesses and fake leaks, it's not inconceivable that someone could hit a few shots in the dark.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The fact that Smash 4 doesn't have the same dodging mechanics as Melee pretty much rules out any sort of "modes" that would allow that. I can't understand why this is even being considered.

If a 3rd Party character is planned, the plans pretty much go through. It's plain and simple. There are contracts. Sakurai can't just go back on a contract like that. So that's ANOTHER strike against it. Even if he did, then as Golden said, Rayman wouldn't be in at all.

I think it's fake. A lot of effort put into it. But fake nonetheless.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Something doesn't add up to me about this new "leak".

If there was bad blood between Nintendo and Ubisoft over the delay and losing Wii U exclusivity of Rayman Legends, why would Rayman be in Smash 4 in any capacity?

"We hate you for screwing us out of an exclusive title for our console, so we're taking your character out of Smash, but we'll go ahead and keep a trophy of him."
Seems legit.

Could just be an in house animosity. Kind of like how enemy politicians shake their hands just so they both look better for the press.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I really don`t think Sakurai would cut a character for a silly reason like that. I know trying to predict Sakurai is a bad idea, but this is the one thing I'm pretty confident in. I doubt he'd let Nintendo`s quarrels get in the way of a character he saw potential in. That said, I think this leak is fake.

 

[Deleted member]

Could just be an in house animosity. Kind of like how enemy politicians shake their hands just so they both look better for the press.

Then why would Rayman be removed as a character as a result of their issue with Ubisoft but still be featured as a trophy?

Wouldn't that be a bigger "**** you" than just removing Rayman entirely?

 

[Kenith]

I guess I didn't consider those two strikes against this leak.

Is there a third?
I'm already convinced it isn't real, but a third strike would confirm that this leak is, indeed, out.

 

[Muster]

I'd need a few questions answered about the leak before i can start believing it.
1. If air dodging behaved like it was described here, then why is it not in any way like this in the demo? same thing with the sweet spot mechanics. (also, this kind of air dodging would be really unbalanced, lending characters with not so good recoveries a great option that would make their disadvantage disappear)
2.How can an omega ruby/alpha sapphire rep be planned if the roster was apparently finalized before x/y was even done?
3.When the Kalos league stage is mentioned, there is no mention of the "champion" stage, or whatever neutral stage we have already seen in game?

 

[DMurr]

Something doesn't add up to me about this new "leak".

If there was bad blood between Nintendo and Ubisoft over the delay and losing Wii U exclusivity of Rayman Legends, why would Rayman be in Smash 4 in any capacity?

"We hate you for screwing us out of an exclusive title for our console, so we're taking your character out of Smash, but we'll go ahead and keep a trophy of him."
Seems legit.

Then why would Rayman be removed as a character as a result of their issue with Ubisoft but still be featured as a trophy?

Wouldn't that be a bigger "**** you" than just removing Rayman entirely?

Professionalism.. Nintendo is a big company, and Ubisoft was the biggest 3rd party supporter. While it's not great for Nintendo, I think the execs there still respect Ubi's decision to go multi-platform. It's not personal, it's business. Burning bridges completely would've made things worse. Perhaps a big request for all the support Nintendo received from Ubisoft was to have Smash Bros. feature Rayman. Well, it still does, in some capacity.

Edit: Quoted the wrong post.. so I'll just have both there.

 

[GamerGuy09]

I'd need a few questions answered about the leak before i can start believing it.
1. If air dodging behaved like it was described here, then why is it not in any way like this in the demo? same thing with the sweet spot mechanics. (also, this kind of air dodging would be really unbalanced, lending characters with not so good recoveries a great option that would make their disadvantage disappear)
2.How can an omega ruby/alpha sapphire rep be planned if the roster was finalized before x/y was even done?
3.When the Kalos league stage is mentioned, there is no mention of the "champion" stage, or whatever neutral stage we have already seen in game?

1. I would also like to know this.

2. Because it was already planned before hand....I don't see why that couldn't happen.

3. I thought the leaker says going from room to room. Maybe it is the transitional part and doesn't deserve a mention?

 

[AEMehr]

I'll play the devil's advocate and say that upskirting trophies (panty shots) had something to do with it.

Yes, that's what I think too.

 

[Deleted member]

Professionalism.. Nintendo is a big company, and Ubisoft was the biggest 3rd party supporter. While it's not great for Nintendo, I think the execs there still respect Ubi's decision to go multi-platform. It's not personal, it's business. Burning bridges completely would've made things worse. Perhaps a big request for all the support Nintendo received from Ubisoft was to have Smash Bros. feature Rayman. Well, it still does, in some capacity.

Edit: Quoted the wrong post.. so I'll just have both there.

Then.....why remove Rayman as a character in the first place?
That's what I'm getting at.

If the issue Nintendo has with Ubisoft is enough to have Rayman cut from the roster, why would Rayman even be featured in the game at all?
Conversely, if the issue Nintendo has with Ubisoft is not enough to keep Rayman from being a trophy, why would it stop him from being playable?

 

[DMurr]

Then.....why remove Rayman as a character in the first place?
That's what I'm getting at.

If the issue Nintendo has with Ubisoft is enough to have Rayman cut from the roster, why would Rayman even be featured in the game at all?
Conversely, if the issue Nintendo has with Ubisoft is not enough to keep Rayman from being a trophy, why would it stop him from being playable?

I would argue that it serves (close to) the same purpose for Nintendo, business-wise, to have a trophy as it does to have a playable character. Rayman Legends is not one of the games that Nintendo actively promotes, but having a nod to it could possibly advertise for the game. They need sales of third party games to support the Wii U as well.

 

[Muster]

3. I thought the leaker says going from room to room. Maybe it is the transitional part and doesn't deserve a mention?

The transition phase has two platforms on the outside, unlike the Dragon stage's curved platforms above the inside, so it must last a good while at least. I honestly think this stage is going to be more tame, and function like the PS stages before with the rooms being the terrains the stages had before.

Rayman Legends is not one of the games that Nintendo actively promotes, but having a nod to it could possibly advertise for the game. They need sales of third party games to support the Wii U as well.

Nintendo published that **** in japan