Character Balancing/Cloning Changes

[MudkipUniverse]

What Balancing changes will We See? Will we see a Slightly Stronger Ice Climbers, or a Weaker Meta-Knight? Will Mario have a Less Dissapointing Final Smash? Will Luigi be Given the Poltergust as A Weapon? Discuss.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Honestly, I wish they kick out Ike... And give them Strong Sword attacks over to Ganondorf... that's my hope

 

[LiteralGrill]

Honestly, I wish they kick out Ike... And give them Strong Sword attacks over to Ganondorf... that's my hope

Never thought of that idea, not too bad. As much as I like Ike, if his play-style could be kept I could manage.

 

[Kirks21]

Ganondorf deserves to be uncloned. He has so much potential to be a completely unique character.

I also really hope that Luigi has his Poltergust.

 

[Ulevo]

Ice Climbers were fine. They just had access to really stupid shield mechanics, and it wasn't as rewarding to separate Nana from Popo when you weren't even rewarded with a combo.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Ganondorf deserves to be uncloned. He has so much potential to be a completely unique character.

I also really hope that Luigi has his Poltergust.

I mean not give all the attacks of Ike to Ganondorf, but give the hard hitters to Ganondorf as the Sword Specials of Ganondorf, while more based on dark magic and heavy hits to him.

Also yeah I really hope for Poltergust, but I think it's pretty obvious by now that he will get it (I do hope atleast)

 

[BlitznBurst]

I'd honestly rather Ganondorf wasn't a swordsman. It might be a step up from being a Captain Falcon clone, but tbh I don't really picture him as a sword user. Which I know is silly, since he only appeared in three games - two if you don't count Wind Waker (though I'm not sure if Ganondorf appeared in any of the 2D games) - all of which had very different interpretations of the character, so there's not really a "definitive" Ganondorf anyway. So it's really me just being nitpicky, I guess. But really, I'd prefer he was a mage/swordsman combination, if anything. Dark magic for his specials and smash attacks, and a sword for his melees. And Ganon for his Final Smash, as an actual transformation a la Giga Bowser this time, with his trident and everything.

tl;dr I'm really nitpicky over minor things. Overall, though, I was always more bothered by how horrible he is to play as than by his cloned moveset. He can continue to be a Captain Falcon clone as long as they buff him tremendously, for all I care.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Get rid of the captain falcon ganondorf and give us ganondorf with a sword by the way replace Ike with chrom

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Honestly, I wish they kick out Ike... And give them Strong Sword attacks over to Ganondorf... that's my hope

No way, I love my Ike. Though if anyone's kicking him out it'll likely be Chrom, and not Ganondorf.

I personally want Ganondorf to keep on building on his warlock aspect. I like that he can pack quite a punch, and I'd like attacks like F-air, D-air and Side-tilt to stay, but I'd also like them to keep on giving him wizard-ish powers, like his Side-B, I think that's a great attack because it's an aggressive magic attack. I'd give him Dead Man's Volley as his Neutral-B, I'd like a mini-Warlock Punch as his Side-Smash, make his Down-Smash so that he punches into the ground and two pillars of dark energy flow up from the ground around him, you get the idea, gotta have more of that dark magic. I think that'd make him much better and much more unique than just being another sword character, which we have enough of as it is, while we're lacking in the magic department.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Ice Climbers were fine. They just had access to really stupid shield mechanics, and it wasn't as rewarding to separate Nana from Popo when you weren't even rewarded with a combo.

But, The Only Thing Behind Them Are The Special Moves.

 

[Ulevo]

But, The Only Thing Behind Them Are The Special Moves.

Uh...?

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Uh...?

What They Lag In.

 

[Lemonwater]

And chaingrabs. And spaced-apart attacks that mitigate the punishable after-lag.

 

[Wtfwasthat]

I hope they give Luigi the Poltergust, and actually make it useful and not as disappointing as Mario's F.L.U.D.D

 

[PrincessAzula]

I would like to see a Zelda that isn't bottom tier, meaning a somewhat revamped moveset, but we all know the chances of that are slim.......

Alas, one can dream.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Ganondorf really needs the Dead Man's Volley in any move-set he is given.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Honestly, I wish they kick out Ike... And give them Strong Sword attacks over to Ganondorf... that's my hope

Ganondorf needs to use a trident!

 

[KingofPhantoms]

De-clone Ganondorf.

Nerf Meta Knight.

Buff Jigglypuff.

Keep Pkachu how he is.

Buff Yoshi.

Luigi-fy Falco a bit more.

Buff Link.

Olimar should be a bit nerfed. (he might be able to only use 3 Pikmin at once, so he might have already been nerfed a bit)

That's what I think. Also, I'm pretty sure Bowser and Pit have been buffed.

 

[Renji64]

The uncloning process is really hard i didn't like the changes in brawl to falco it just made him feel terrible the clones had their own properties to make them fell different enough to me.

 

[Renji64]

The best thing to is just to put new characters and make slight changes to make clones feel a bit more different but good.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I say leave the swords to Fire Emblem Characters and Link. I prefer Ganondorf with the "I'll bust your skull open and won't lose a wink of asleep about it" vibe.

Fair's all day.

 

[Starcutter]

They should buff yoshi's smash attacks. I only ever get KOs with his up air.

while they are at it, change up the egg throwing a little. make it more straight, buff the range and make it uneffected by gravity.

 

[Zaffy]

Make mario's fludd not suck
Luigi uses poltergeist
Peach has MORE female stereotyped forward smashes
Bowser... done.
Yoshi's egg roll to be more effective
Wario's default costume to be the actual wario outfit
Donkey Kong to get barrels/rolling dash attack
Diddy to keep banana peels
Link to have a decent recovery
Zelda to not have such DIable smashes
Sheik to have more break dancing smashes
Ganondorf to have a taunt to take out and USE his sword
Toon link to have fire/ice/light arrows randomly
Samus to have an option not to go into ZSS with final smash, able to roll up into morph ball and roll away
ZSS to be able to not go into Samus with final smash, a non-crappy forward smash
Pit to have more spamable arrows for noobs to troll good players :D
Ice Climbers to become proper characters who can compete without the use of infinites
Rob to has his stack up buddy along with him
Kirby to lose the hammer and to get rick
Metaknight to not be so silly
King Dedede to have an even better dance for his final smash
Olimar to be able to fly with flying pikmin
Fox to have an improved shine but not as broken as the one which is in melee
Falco to be slightly more decloned
Wolf to have entirely different specials to fox/falco (yes I know he plays differently, but i still find it lazy to have 3 duplicate idea characters, despite different in execution)
Captain Falcon's punch to come out frame 1 and do 999%
Pikachu to have more adorable hats
PT to have an option to stay as one pokemon
Lucario to have an attacking recovery
Jigglypuff to be safer and more adorable costumes
Marth to have more crazy options for side b
Ike to have more spamable smash moves (see pit)
Ness to have a faster down b
Lucas to not be a special clone of Ness (see Wolf) give him different pk moves with the same effects as his current ones, just make it not be the same thing
Snake more grenades! And less silly tilts
Sonic to go faster, and less spinning moves which seem to have no thought behind them
Game & Watch to be less japanese fetish based.

 

[PrincessAzula]

Make mario's fludd not suck
Zelda to not have such DIable smashes
Metaknight to not be so silly
Jigglypuff to be safer and more adorable costumes
Game & Watch to be less japanese fetish based.

Yes! And by more adorable costumes I hope you mean bringing her bow and bandana back.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

De-clone Ganondorf.

Nerf Meta Knight.

Buff Jigglypuff.

Keep Pkachu how he is.

Buff Yoshi.

Luigi-fy Falco a bit more.

Buff Link.

Olimar should be a bit nerfed. (he might be able to only use 3 Pikmin at once, so he might have already been nerfed a bit)

That's what I think. Also, I'm pretty sure Bowser and Pit have been buffed.

I Agree.

 

[RideRide]

I actually like the idea of how if you use ganon's taunt he uses his sword. He keeps his old moveset for those who like it, and gives a whole new sword moveset for those (like me) who want ganon to be less of a clone.

 

[Ulevo]

Having Fox and Falco as semi-clones I think is actually acceptable. Those type of designs are fine as long as there isn't a saturation of them. It was kind of overbearing in Melee when we also had Pikachu and Pichu, Mario and Doctor Mario, Roy and Marth, and Ganondorf more like Captain Falcon than ever.

 

[Renji64]

or get rid of the fludd would be even better.

 

[Kirks21]

I mean not give all the attacks of Ike to Ganondorf, but give the hard hitters to Ganondorf as the Sword Specials of Ganondorf, while more based on dark magic and heavy hits to him.

Also yeah I really hope for Poltergust, but I think it's pretty obvious by now that he will get it (I do hope atleast)

Mhm. Yeah, Ganon really needs to have more magic-y type stuff. If Zelda uses her triforce, why not him too? I don't want a complete change for him, but they can unclone him a lot more than they did in Brawl.

Also, Yeah, Trident. He needs it.

 

[BlitznBurst]

i would also like for the MOTHER characters to be overhauled, but there's not much chance of that happening. Give Lucas some unique moves, at least.

And make Ness's Final Smash PK Rockin

 

[the smash nerd]

Nick v Make 's fludd go nintendo
uses poltergeist
has MORE female stereotyped forward smashes
Bowser... done.
' s egg roll to be more effective
Wario's default costume to be the actual wario outfit
Donkey Kong to get barrels/rolling dash attack
Diddy to keep banana peels
Link to have a decent recovery
Zelda to not have such DIable smashes
Sheik to have more break dancing smashes
Ganondorf to have a taunt to take out and USE his sword
Toon link to have fire/ice/light arrows randomly
Samus to have an option not to go into ZSS with final smash, able to roll up into morph ball and roll away
ZSS to be able to not go into Samus with final smash, a non-crappy forward smash
Pit to have more spamable arrows for noobs to troll good players :D
Ice Climbers to become proper characters who can compete without the use of infinites
Rob to has his stack up buddy along with him
Kirby to lose the hammer and to get rick and the Copy Abilities form Kirby's Return to Dream Land New and Returning
Metaknight to not be so silly
King Dedede to have an even better dance for his final smash
Olimar to be able to fly with flying pikmin
Fox to have an improved shine but not as broken as the one which is in melee
Falco to be slightly more decloned
Wolf to have entirely different specials to fox/falco (yes I know he plays differently, but i still find it lazy to have 3 duplicate idea characters, despite different in execution)
Captain Falcon's punch to come out frame 1 and do 999%
Pikachu to have more adorable hats
PT to have an option to stay as one pokemon
Lucario to have an attacking recovery
Jigglypuff to be safer and more adorable costumes
Marth to have more crazy options for side b
Ike to have more spamable smash moves (see pit)
Ness to have a faster down b
Lucas to not be a special clone of Ness (see Wolf) give him different pk moves with the same effects as his current ones, just make it not be the same thing
Sonic to go faster, and less spinning moves which seem to have no thought behind them
Game & Watch to be less japanese fetish based.

 

[PIKA321]

I hope they give Luigi the Poltergust but I just hope it doesn't suck like Mario's F.L.U.D.D. I hope Ganon gets uncloned, same for Falco. And please, for the love of Smash, MAKE LINK A GOOD CHARACTER!!

 

[Renji64]

Some Brawl ruined alot of characters with their changes.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Link Is Boss In SSF2, But In Brawl..... Meh.

 

[TheBakonBitz]

Here are some of my thoughts (unfinished and subject to change):
http://smashboards.com/entries/bakons-ssb4-roster-and-move-set-changes.4739/

This thread contains my ideas and general ramblings about SSB4, so feel free to comment below. Alright, I have changed a lot of my thinking from my previous roster. This one is a lot more realistic.

Mario
- Mario's Down B should remain the F.L.U.D.D.'s squirt nozzle, but should instantly release water without the need for charging, but have a cool down. The F.L.U.D.D.'s squirt nozzle should also do damage and have a decent knock back, which would make it great for instant separation. If used in the air Mario should squirt water downward, resulting in a meteor smash.
- Mario's Up B should be the F.L.U.D.D.'s rocket nozzle, which would be great for vertical recovery. The F.L.U.D.D.'s rocket nozzle should also be cancel-able at any time much like Snake's Cypher.
- I also think it would be neat if before doing Mario Finale (His Final Smash) Mario ate a mushroom. It would just be a neat little feature.

Luigi
- Luigi's Down B, the Luigi Cyclone should be moved to his down air, much like Mario's, and his new Down B should utilize the Poltergust 3000, from Luigi's Mansion, which could suck in anything (items, enemies, ect.) in the direction Luigi was facing. It could suck in Samus's Charge Shot for example, and then whenever the user presses Down B again it would shoot it back out. This would also be great if you sucked in a bob-omb for example and then shot it back out, if it hit a wall or a player it would explode on impact, making Luigi very versatile.
- Luigi's Forward Smash (Palm Poke) should replace his Forward Aerial (Karate Chop) and his new Forward Smash should be his flashlight also from Luigi's Mansion. The flashlight could stun opponents by making them blind if they were in medium rangeor he could smash them on the head with it if they were in close range.
- Upon activating Luigi's Final Smash, the other players would turn into different colored ghosts and Luigi would have a limited time to suck them into his Poltergust 3000 with Down B. At the end of the time given, Luigi would should the ghosts he caught upward, resulting in KO's for players over 70%. This would replace the Negative Zone entirely.

Peach
- Peach should have an alternate outfit from Mario Strikers Charged much like Wario's original and WarioWare outfits.

Spoiler

Her Outfit from Mario Strikers Charged:

- Peach should have a normal second jump.
- Peach's Down B (Vegetable Pluck) should be replaced by a ground pound, which Peach will jump up and then slam back down. This can be used as a recovery, but a risky one, because if you don't grab the ledge, then you have no chance of getting back on the stage. If Peach preforms this move in the air, she will launch herself straight down, and if it connects with an opponent, it will be a meteor smash.
- Peach's Side B should consist of only her golf club and frying pan, in favor of Waluigi and his tennis racket. Her golf club could have more range, but less damage and knock back, while the frying pan could have less range, but more damage and knock back.
- Peach's Neutral B attack should consist of her pulling out a flaming soccer ball and then kicking it in the direction she is facing.
- Instead of Peach's Final Smash putting the opponents to sleep, it should freeze time as well as spawning peaches. This will allow Peach to attack at will without the opponents being able to defend for a limited time. These peaches are only edible by Princess Peach, and heal 5%- 10%.

Bowser
- Sakurai has confirmed that he is making Bowser stand up straighter and move a little bit faster.
- Bowser's new Forward Smash is now a dropkick.
- Bowser is getting a new dash attack, where he kicks in the direction in which he was running.
- Bowser's Up B (Whirling Fortress) should have better vertical recovery.
- When an opponent attacks from behind, his shell could either block some damage, or return some of the physical damage given to him (he does have spikes on his shell.)

I will update this post with the other franchises later.

 

[nat pagle]

Definitely make Ganon more unique. There's no reason his warlock and sword abilities can't be used more.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Link Is Boss In SSF2, But In Brawl..... Meh.

Link was in Super Street Fighter 2!?

I'm not sure how many of these suggestions have anything to do with balancing.

Also, do you really have to capitalise every word?

 

[TheBakonBitz]

Link was in Super Street Fighter 2!?

I'm not sure how many of these suggestions have anything to do with balancing.

Also, do you really have to capitalise every word?

No Super Smash Flash 2. http://www.mcleodgaming.com/ it's an amazing game, be sure to check it out!

 

[PrincessAzula]

Here are some of my thoughts (unfinished and subject to change):
http://smashboards.com/entries/bakons-ssb4-roster-and-move-set-changes.4739/

- Peach's Down B (Vegetable Pluck) should be replaced by a ground pound, which Peach will jump up and then slam back down. This can be used as a recovery, but a risky one, because if you don't grab the ledge, then you have no chance of getting back on the stage. If Peach preforms this move in the air, she will launch herself straight down, and if it connects with an opponent, it will be a meteor smash.

I disagree. I think Peach's turnips are very important to her unique playstyle. And I don't know how well Peach would fare without a projectile.

 

[Lemonwater]

I'd like to see each character take full advantage of the unique traits and abilities that made them icons from their respective games. So, yes, Poltergust would be a good idea.