Character Advantages on Levels

[PikashoX]

i saw a couple people debating about DK vs. Fox on dreamland and hyrule and that made me think...how would the chracter rankings (based purely on advantages, and assuming skill level is the same) go per level?

im not that experienced/good at smash, so im pretty much clueless about this. but i want to hear/read your opinions so feel free to share them.

 

[Nephiros]

I know that CF has advantage on fox in dreamland, for sure. The three platforms makes approaching and lasers harder for fox, while CF can use them to his advantage by spamming usmashes and uairs. That's what I figured out myself, anyways.

 

[M3tr01D]

DK has a huge advantage on hyrule, falcon is great on dreamland. Jiggly is worse on dreamland, fox is good on hyrule.

Those are just a couple I can think of right now that would make me stop and think "gotta be careful they will have an advantage. "

 

[Wenbobular]

DK on Falcon is pretty dumb on Hyrule if all they do is camp the box and chaingrab...

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

DK has a huge advantage on hyrule, falcon is great on dreamland. Jiggly is worse on dreamland, fox is good on hyrule.

Those are just a couple I can think of right now that would make me stop and think "gotta be careful they will have an advantage. "

dreamland has shorter sidelines so jiggly has an advantage here
ie. rest works better

 

[M3tr01D]

her fwd throw usually lands the opponent right on top of the platforms though, so her combos aren't as good.

 

[Moocow007]

her fwd throw usually lands the opponent right on top of the platforms though, so her combos aren't as good.

follow the tech if you know they're going to land. if they don't, you get a nice easy combo.

 

[felix45]

yeah but moocow you aren't garunteed to be able to predict the tech roll whereas elsewhere where there is no platfoarm you dont have to predict the tech at all.


allthough I prefer fighting jigz on big levels just because of the threat of the rest.


edit: link has major problems on small levels thanks to a crappy recovery.


double edit: ness blows donkey balls on safron city. gigantic donkey balls.

 

[hambread]

bad recovery characters get advantage in mushroom kingdom, because you dont really need it there, except for trench warfare type stuff. i think link gets the most outta that stage.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Kirby has a odd advantage @ Dreamland. His large recovery means that you really have to nail him hard or spike him completely in order to kill him. Also, dairs that rise from under platforms after someone forgets to tech are always useful. And his downtilt can be used for actually killing, not simply a fast/highpriority/great hitbox poke.

Same with pikachu. More difficult to edgeguard when Pikachu can jump late after falling and THEN switch it up with up-B.

CF has a disadvantage on Fox's ship. He isn't amazing at killing sideways, spiking isn't an easy task, and upsmash is for combos, not for killing. The large space means that his uair-combos are useful for certain % on certain characters, but the generally deviation of these %s is quite small.

I'd claim that jiggs has more of an advantage at Dreamland than a disadvantage, not only b/c of easy Rest kills, but because people are less likely to tech a fthrow on a platform above unless they have it in mind beforehand, or at just anticipating it entirely too often (so its relatively easy to punish)... and perhaps because her back-throw can kill at 85%+ if you can't seem to nail rest combos.

 

[Thino]

some random jiggly tech punished me with a rest on a platform after an fthrow

 

[whaahppnd]

I have to agree that jiggs has an advantage on Dreamland.

Also, imo Pika has advantage over kirby on hyrule but are pretty even on dreamland.
And Pika has huge advantage on fox on dreamland but they are even on hyrule.

CF has advantage near any platforms (which is why he's good on dreamland) due to Up-air spam-ability.

edit: Mushroom Kingdom obviously favors grab ***** characters (Pika, DK, etc)

edit: wt f... they censor w-hore? Prostitution is legal in some places!!

 

[PikashoX]

i do agree with metroid that the combos are harder to do with jiggly because of the platforms, but i think the shorter sidelines and more effective backthrows make up for it.

jiggly doesn't do that bad on dreamland compared to other characters, but resting near the edge in FFA is horrible =/

just curious but would you rather have link or mario on hyrule?

once this gets to a couple pages, we can start forming 1-12 rankings for each legit level. i think it'll be interesting.

 

[whaahppnd]

imo, mario is actually a good link counter

link is good because his boomerang and bombs create a sort of barrier and even if you manage to get by his attacks have range
but
mario's fireballs are effective against his projectiles...

plus if they fight on either edge mario obviously has advantage with the throw...

so i'd def say mario

 

[Umbrasquall]

I'd rather fight Link in Hyrule. He may be more powerful but Mario can easily combo in Isai's house while it's a little harder for Link.

 

[Nintendude]

Here are my personal opinions, and the way I usually counterpick is based on this...

This includes disadvantages too...

DK and Fox have big advantages on Hyrule and should fight there as much as possible. It's also Link's best stage as he doesn't die as easily. Falcon generally has an advantage there except vs. Fox.

Dreamland is an excellent anti-Fox level since it's really easy to just throw him off and edgeguard, and platforms can get you around his lasers.

Peach's Castle is good against any character with limited recovery options, like Samus, Mario, and Luigi, as they often get screwed trying to recover when the only option is going to the bottom moving platform. However, Samus is also tricky with platform-drop aerials on that stage.

I think that Congo Jungle is an excellent Kirby level as he can use the central platforms to prolong his drill up-tilt combos, then finish with a smash really easily, as the platforms are too small to escape with a tech-roll. Kirby can also use the barrel more easily than other characters and can recover through the floor to save himself in situations where he would be too predictable to recover safely. He also can get really fast kills there since the borders are really close to the stage.

I think that Congo Jungle is also a good Samus level since the kick KOs really fast there and she can pull off a lot of neat stuff on the platforms. Samus also performs well on Hyrule as long as you aren't facing Fox or Luigi (vertical KOs), as she never dies and can often get 175%+ on a stock.

Ness fails on Saffron City for obvious reasons.

Mario performs very well on Dreamland provided the player can edgeguard well. It's also Pikachu's best stage if the player can do those Uair off the stage death combos. Pikachu should also always pick Dreamland vs. Samus, Mario, and Luigi, as it's like impossible to avoid the f-smash edgeguard.

That about covers it as for what I know...

 

[PikashoX]

so for hyrule, the list would go something like this?

1. fox
2. pikachu
3. falcon
4. kirby
5. DK
6. mario
7. link
8. yoshi
9. luigi
10. samus
11. jiggly
12. ness

there are faults in this method, because some may do well against a higher but not all lower seeds.

nintendude1189, why does falcon not have an advantage over fox on hyrule? im not disagreeing, just trying to learn.

 

[Nintendude]

imo it's because Fox can combo in the pit so much better than Falcon can, and on the main platform lasers give Falcon a lot of trouble.

Ness should go way higher on your list too. Just because he doesn't have any advantages there doesn't mean he isn't still an overall excellent character.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Pika, I'd make the list completely based on advantage level rather than partially on tier of characters.

So Link should be higher (low tier but wide field + flat areas = good for projectiles and his bad recovery), Pikachu and Kirby lower (no particular advantage on hyrule, they're just good in general), DK higher... the others aren't high enough on the list to really matter very much.

 

[omfgomfg]

i say that samus has a huge advantage on her own stage because she can chuck her opponent straight off the edge and then spike then like 8 times

 

[Dash_Fox]

I just play the game! The only unfair advantages I see is ness and Safron City (that poor kid dies too much there if you're not careful).

The best tip is be aware of your surroundings.

+ don't play sector Z on 1v1 matches, it takes too long.

 

[felix45]

just curious but would you rather have link or mario on hyrule?

link. it's probably his best stage. lots of rooms so he can't easily be thrown off the edge.


mario has better stages than hyrule anyways so yeah.


edit: @dashfox - you must admit link having a bad recovery makes him a terrible choice for dreamland.

 

[Dash_Fox]

link. it's probably his best stage. lots of rooms so he can't easily be thrown off the edge.


mario has better stages than hyrule anyways so yeah.


edit: @dashfox - you must admit link having a bad recovery makes him a terrible choice for dreamland.

With my Link I use the platforms a lot to avoid being grabbed so easily and I never use ground attacks on dreamland unless it will combo or it will punish my opponent's laggy attack. Yes, I feel anyone's pain who gets unlucky and gets thrown off from Dreamland. I say that's my hardest match up, Link vs DK on Dreamland. I fear it, but I can overcome it usually with good strategy and skill.

Oh, and I would probably rather face mario on Hyrule than link, I hate fireballs with a passion! (even though they're so easy to avoid and destroy/reflect).

 

[whaahppnd]

Pikashox,
I don't think you should create a list with ALL the characters for each stage
I think you should only list those that gain/lose something because of a certain stage (for ex, DK, link etc on hyrule)

or else the list turns more or less into a tiers list like you have up there^

 

[Lord Kirby]

lets just say that pikachu has the most advantage. if you dont plan on using the stage features, then ness has the most.

 

[PikashoX]

box of fox and whaahppnd...great ideas from both of you

hyrule:

1. fox
2. link
3. DK
4. falcon

^ those would be the ones with a slight advantage?

would jiggly have a disadvantage due to the wide borders? what about yoshi and his platform combos in the middle of hyrule?

dash fox, dont you mean you would rather play link? since you hate mario's fireballs? lol

felix45, whats mario's best stage in your opinion?

omfgomfg, its not easy to grab with samus =/

lets add dreamland too while we're at it:

1. pikachu
2. kirby
3. yoshi
4. falcon
5. (maybe jiggly/ness/DK?)

disadvantages:

1. link
2. fox
3. samus
4. luigi
5. mario

something to think about: would you rather play the luigi or mario in a luigi vs mario matchup on dreamland?

 

[felix45]

Mario's best stage? probably saffron city. pleanty of places to sweet spot the up b, easy edge gaurds, and spam ability of the fireball is very easy for him on saffron as well. no real disadvantage for mario here either.


that reminds me, pikachu is pretty bad on saffron city because of the middle parts of the buildings where pika can fall. those parts greatly hinder the up b recovery should pika get hit down inbetween the buildings. but then again should pika manage to get someone down between the pika player can spam fsmash as they recover from inbetween and pretty much always hit them. not sure what to call for pikachu on that stage really.

 

[Nephiros]

I'm curious, who here would b-throw -> edgehog kill Link five times in a row on dreamland?

 

[Thino]

depends on who is Link <_<

 

[Nintendude]

I'm curious, who here would b-throw -> edgehog kill Link five times in a row on dreamland?

Ages ago I 3-stocked Johnny doing that >_>
Dreamland is personally my favorite stage when I'm playing Mario, though I should experiment with Saffron City more.

 

[PikashoX]

I'm curious, who here would b-throw -> edgehog kill Link five times in a row on dreamland?

i would, but after the first few wins it gets boring

the same can be done on fox...though a bit harder

and are you talking about backthrow with mario?

 

[Volrec]

I hate playing all Marios on dreamland, it isnt even funn anymore. Fthrow and a whole bunch of air moves for an easy death. F Q Did this to me usually, so when he picked falcon, i 3 stocked him with the Volrec combo.

Then he picked pika, i picked fox, and I dtilt daired him all day. God mad and left. ****ing Marios.

I think Ness fails on dreamland. I could never recover on dreamland with Ness.

Sector Z sucks. I havent played there in ages.

And to Nephiros's post, I hate playing Links. Because I mostly win, and Link isnt a fun character to comb. He looks ugly when hes flying around, and his recovery is annoying also, so I dont get my off stage fair combos in.
Kirby + Peach Castle = They will probably win

DK ***** in Isai's house. Fox ***** in Isais house

Might as well add a tier list while I'm at it:
Dreamland:
Pika= obvious reasons + edge regrabs
Mario = tornado + double jump up b good, and plus you cant Dsmash(unless with good timing)
Luigi = same, but jump punch is a little worse.
Fox=Versatile + gaysers
Jigs= Obvious reasons
DK= Good horizontal, and vertcal if you're pro.
Ness = will hit a curve in the side, fall.
Falcon = easy interceptions
everyone esle(aka people i cant remember) fail.

 

[cmasterchoe]

i don't know if anybody has brought it up yet but on peach's castle basically anybody with an effective down spike can be very annoying if you are trying to recover through the oscillating platform. Kirby is by far the most annoying because if you time it right with him he can just short hop and dair, and if not he can just down-A otherwise. Its so annoying if you are mario, luigi or pikachu and you are trying to go from underneath the platform through to the top and the opponent just camps there and catches you at the right moment...

its happened one too many times for me.

 

[Fireblaster]

I would without a doubt throw off and edgeguard all of Link's 5 lives in Dreamland, unless the player I'm playing is inferior to me, in which case it's pointless anyways and I just fight him head on to practice combos and getting around projectiles. Those of you who look down upon others who throw to win, screw off. It's not our fault that Link's recovery sucks or that you picked him.

 

[hambread]

Link can boomerang and bomb you from across the stage (dreamland). and after you're done dealing with them link should have the upperhand. thats the only advantage i can think of he has in a small stage. its not that situational ; more than often a return boomerang and bomb can give you fluke opening. but you can dodge, block or even use a strong projectile to deflect the (not returning) boomerang and take out the bomb.