Changing what people think of Smash 64

[LAS | Wookiee]

I was recently browsing on reddit and stumbled upon a post, like where many people have said in the past "If you get touched in smash 64, you are dead." So for once I finally said something about it. I think the community as a whole needs to start doing a better job of getting the message across that this game doesn't work like that at all, especially to potential players. So my question to you all, is there any "Smash 64 stereotypes" that are completely wrong that we need to start correcting? I think this could go a long way on changing peoples views on the game.

 

[Bark Sanchez]

"Nothing but grabs". I'm pretty grab heavy but watch LD play.

 

[Shears]

-Every character has a 0-death on every other character from every single move from anywhere on any stage
-No one plays this game
-Only Isai plays this game
-Isai has never lost
-Falcon combos are banned
-Pika is cheating
-Pika is a rat
-Luigi-Kirby is 80-20
-If you want to combo you just play street fighter
-M2K is the best at this game without every playing it
-Kero, at some point or another, banged someones mom (it turned out it was just his own cousin)

 

[Dark Horse]

-There are no scenes for this game
-Games/consoles/controllers are hard to find
-Shears is good at this game
-Blue hat Pika is the best

 

[Shears]

-DarkHorse beard is legendary (its really just a clip on guys)
-Hyrule is legal

 

[Bark Sanchez]

Falcon is hard
Kirby is hard
Yoshi is hard
Fox is hard
Jiggly is hard
Mario is hard
Dk is hard
Samus is hard
Ness is hard
Luigi is hard
Link is hard

 

[Shears]

Falcon is hard
Kirby is hard
Yoshi is hard
Fox is hard
Jiggly is hard
Mario is hard
Dk is hard
Samus is hard
Ness is hard
Luigi is hard
Link is hard

-Pika is easy

 

[SSBMagy]

-No one can beat Isai
-It doesn't exist (Mainly Melee people who think the first smash game was SSBM)
-If you play it, your controller will instantly break (I hear this alot, not sure about you guys)

 

[Daniel Mears]

LD is un-edgeguardable.

Game mechanics/controls are wonky and not precise.
N64 controller is wonky and not precise.

Low tier characters are trash.

 

[Shears]

LD is un-edgeguardable.

Wrong thread for this, it belongs in the simple facts you may not know thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/simple-facts-that-you-may-not-know.308210/

 

[Bark Sanchez]

I think the worst are people who think its less skillful than melee because its not as fast paced.

 

[SSBMagy]

I think the worst are people who think its less skillful than melee because its not as fast paced.

Yeah, that is pretty annoying. But all melee fans do is talk about how good it is, and how bad everything else is. I'm pretty sure most of them don't even play it.

 

[Bark Sanchez]

I wanna get a little back into melee without affecting my 64 play if possible. After Smashcon

 

[Fireblaster]

I do not recommend that. Time spent in melee will slow you down or set you back in 64.

 

[hypersonicJD]

I have always tried to spread more love to Smash 64. Since it's the most balanced game of every smash game. Yes. I'm saying this. In this game any character could be extremely good and powerful. Yoshi being a low tier can actually rekt even a Fox or a Pikachu. I have done it many times.

 

[LAS | Wookiee]

I have always tried to spread more love to Smash 64. Since it's the most balanced game of every smash game. Yes. I'm saying this. In this game any character could be extremely good and powerful. Yoshi being a low tier can actually rekt even a Fox or a Pikachu. I have done it many times.

yoshi being a low tier? did you see apex? haha

 

[hypersonicJD]

In the current tier list he is. I know he has some amazing combos with Down air and his parry is amazing. And in the game i'm a Yoshi main. So I know how powerful he can be. But other characters have an easier time with Yoshi and doing combos. And yoshi has a bad recovery too.

 

[Sangoku]

1) Yoshi's down air isn't good, except on shields.

2) His recovery is great and is one of the reason I play him.

3) He isn't low tier, I think the distinction is made just below him.

 

[hypersonicJD]

1) Yoshi's down air isn't good, except on shields.

2) His recovery is great and is one of the reason I play him.

3) He isn't low tier, I think the distinction is made just below him.

His recovery is great at low percents. But at higher porcents, his armor can be broken and he will fall to his death.

Down air is really good for racking up damage in the middle of a combo.

I also think that Yoshi is a great character. But he has weaknesses.

 

[Sangoku]

1) Yeah at high percent when you would die with any char. At least he doesn't die at low percent from a quick grab&gimp, unlike characters whose recoveries are actually bad.

2) Down air doesn't work against someone who DIs, ie any decent player. It can be usable as a damage rack up move against a defensive Jigglypuff for example, by going far and high before using it, but that's not in a combo.

3) So he went from "low tier" to "great character who has weaknesses"? Any "great characters" has weaknesses too.

 

[Fireblaster]

In the current tier list he is. I know he has some amazing combos with Down air and his parry is amazing. And in the game i'm a Yoshi main. So I know how powerful he can be. But other characters have an easier time with Yoshi and doing combos. And yoshi has a bad recovery too.

Any combo with down air is not amazing unless it only hits once or twice.

Yoshi is not low tier

Yoshi has one of the best recoveries in the game. What is your source of information?

 

[Morin0]

3/48 smash 64
45/48 smash 4

 

[hypersonicJD]

Well yeah. I have been more into Smash 4 competitive scene. But back my Smash 64 group in Facebook I was so active with Yoshi. Doing all kinds of stuff and playing with Yoshi, Kirby, Mario, Luigi and other characters. I was so active in Kaillera. But then I got Smash 4 and I forgot about every other Smash game.

 

[Kimimaru]

I do not recommend that. Time spent in melee will slow you down or set you back in 64.

In my experience as both a 64 and Melee player, I've found that playing both games has actually helped me improve. However, I play different characters in both games and I know that this may not be true for everyone.

 

[Morin0]

I think THE Z has said before that playing Melee helps his combo game in 64. I think there are some things to be learned from those games that can be applied in 64 or Melee. Generally, the Melee players that I've played in 64 are pretty decent, and I like to attribute that to their experience in Melee. When I play Melee, some people have told me that I play like a 64 player. Is my 64-esque gameplay an advantage? WHO KNOWS.

 

[MrMarbles]

"all the smash 64 guys are just like.... so chill and wanna just play the game. They don't care about esports or tournaments they just play for fun"

here's one i hear some much that i throw up in my mouth a little bit when i hear it now. It's actually not that bad of a stereotype but i just hear it regurgitated so much i feel like most people who say it have never met a 64 player

 

[Fireblaster]

In my experience as both a 64 and Melee player, I've found that playing both games has actually helped me improve. However, I play different characters in both games and I know that this may not be true for everyone.

I think THE Z has said before that playing Melee helps his combo game in 64. I think there are some things to be learned from those games that can be applied in 64 or Melee. Generally, the Melee players that I've played in 64 are pretty decent, and I like to attribute that to their experience in Melee. When I play Melee, some people have told me that I play like a 64 player. Is my 64-esque gameplay an advantage? WHO KNOWS.

False cause/confirmation bias. Players who have good fundamentals in smash and fighting games will get at least decent in any game they try. If you think playing a different game helped you improve in another, it's because they have a similar focus on the same fundamentals. If you go into these separate games with the mentality of "I'm going to play melee with 64 playstyle" or vice versa, it's ultimately going to hurt you. Melee doesn't benefit a 64 playstyle and 64 does not benefit a melee playstyle. You might think that it won't hurt you even if you play different characters but unless you have a monstrous amount of time to dedicate to both games, you will start messing up stuff in both games like ledge grab distances, platform landings, L/Zcancels and teching, DI, etc.

 

[MrMarbles]

False cause/confirmation bias. Players who have good fundamentals in smash and fighting games will get at least decent in any game they try. If you think playing a different game helped you improve in another, it's because they have a similar focus on the same fundamentals. If you go into these separate games with the mentality of "I'm going to play melee with 64 playstyle" or vice versa, it's ultimately going to hurt you. Melee doesn't benefit a 64 playstyle and 64 does not benefit a melee playstyle. You might think that it won't hurt you even if you play different characters but unless you have a monstrous amount of time to dedicate to both games, you will start messing up stuff in both games like ledge grab distances, platform landings, L/Zcancels and teching, DI, etc.

tell that to wizzrobe

 

[Morin0]

Good points, fire-kun. Some adverse affects with me is that after a lot of Melee, I instinctively try to to waveland onto platforms. Even though what you said is true, I still feel like there are tiny aspects that benefit you from playing, or at least knowing how to play, the other smash game. The only legitimate case of this is when Isai knew about the applicability of shield dropping in Melee before anyone knew about it/thought it was good. I am almost positive that Isai's 64 background helped him out in ye olde days of Melee.

EDIT: I once asked s2j how his 64 background has helped him in Melee, if any, and he said Smash DI.

 

[Fireblaster]

tell that to wizzrobe

[...] but unless you have a monstrous amount of time to dedicate to both games, you will start messing up [...]

Good points, fire-kun. Some adverse affects with me is that after a lot of Melee, I instinctively try to to waveland onto platforms. Even though what you said is true, I still feel like there are tiny aspects that benefit you from playing, or at least knowing how to play, the other smash game. The only legitimate case of this is when Isai knew about the applicability of shield dropping in Melee before anyone knew about it/thought it was good. I am almost positive that Isai's 64 background helped him out in ye olde days of Melee.

EDIT: I once asked s2j how his 64 background has helped him in Melee, if any, and he said Smash DI.

Yes because each game has their differences, they can refine aspects of your gameplay that were not as focused in other games. Playing street fighter 4 helped improve my timing since that game requires a lot of 1 and 2 frame links. It also taught me to better recognize option selects and vortex setups. Fortunately, street fighter and smash bros are nothing alike so playing one game didn't affect me in the other.

Yeah it's pretty funny that Isai was so good at smash back then that he beat up noobs in melee mostly through fundamentals alone. Smash DI is also so situational in melee that I think it can hurt you if you try to apply it a little bit more than where you're supposed to use it. Besides fox upair and the few multihit moves that people attempt in melee, trying to smash DI in melee would actually hurt you since you're not DIing optimally.

 

[MrMarbles]

Yes because each game has their differences, they can refine aspects of your gameplay that were not as focused in other games. Playing street fighter 4 helped improve my timing since that game requires a lot of 1 and 2 frame links. It also taught me to better recognize option selects and vortex setups. Fortunately, street fighter and smash bros are nothing alike so playing one game didn't affect me in the other.

Yeah it's pretty funny that Isai was so good at smash back then that he beat up noobs in melee mostly through fundamentals alone. Smash DI is also so situational in melee that I think it can hurt you if you try to apply it a little bit more than where you're supposed to use it. Besides fox upair and the few multihit moves that people attempt in melee, trying to smash DI in melee would actually hurt you since you're not DIing optimally.

wizzy barely ever plays 64. Also there is certainly overlap between the two games that makes it easier to get into one game after you have learned the other. For instance i am ass at melee but the 2 times i played i was able to effectively l cancel and also tech chasing dynamic is very similiar in both games. There is no doubt that i was more capable of playing melee more than someone who had never played a smash game

 

[Fireblaster]

wizzy barely ever plays 64.

And apparently the same for Isai. Something interesting is that at apex wizzrobe started the day not doing so well, almost getting sent to losers 2 - 0 by barely one stock by Ybombb and then beating mariguas at the end of the day. Being a young player and learning and adapting fast and being at a level where he doesn't need to practice that much is a much more likely explanation than "he played so much melee that his melee skills transferred over". Trying to say the latter would be false cause/confirmation bias.

 

[Morin0]

yeah, wizzrobe is just a talented dude.

 

[Capos]

His recovery is great at low percents. But at higher porcents, his armor can be broken and he will fall to his death.

Yoshi can escape things that no other character could (one example https://youtu.be/8mReHHAeuuU?t=16m4s)

At those high percents, other most other characters who got hit by the same attack would either hit the blast zone or be too far to recover anyway.

 

[firo]

Playing melee has sped up my tech skill, spacing, and movement in 64, and 64 has helped my tech chasing, DI, and spacing in melee. Saying that the skills don't cross over is whack, especially if you are playing with a gc adapter.

The games are very similar once you adjust for the differences in shields, grabs, l cancelling, and ledges. Don't let fireblaster convince you otherwise with his false trusims.

 

[SheerMadness]

Playing competitive melee helped my 64 game tremendously. Not quite as much the other way around.

Due to the speed of the game and more defensive options you generally have a much smaller window to read/react in melee. Dealing with so many split second reads in melee really helped me think faster on my feet in 64.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

What sheer said. Melee has helped my 64 as well, specifically reaction time.

 

[Shears]

Heard this at the PA tournament last weekend and I've heard it before.

"64 runs at 30 frames"

 

[MrMarbles]

Heard this at the PA tournament last weekend and I've heard it before.

"64 runs at 30 frames"

yeah ive heard a lot of people say that

 

[hypersonicJD]

But Smash 64 actually runs in 60 FPS. Every Smash game does.