Chain-grab anyone?

[SinkingHigher]

Hey.

For about a month I've been trying to figure something out. When you grab an opponent who is smaller than you and let them escape, theoretically they should always jump-release away from you.

Yet when I do it to lucas, sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't. Samus and Ganondorf exhibit similar properties.

So clearly this has nothing to do with size.

I believe it has something to do with timing the pummels.

I have no one to test this on, but if you can time it so that, say, Lucas simply slides away, you can chain-grab him with Sheik (I believe) EXACTLY like K. Dedede.

Is anyone willing to help me test this out? I used to believe that tilting the joystick up or down would somehow influence their motion. So far I think that pummeling continuously IMMEDIATELY after grabbing makes them jump, where as waiting until the last second to do it makes them slide.

I think this could be a huge step for many characters meta-games if it turns out that many characters can do this. No more Ban IC, Ban Dedede...

 

[Azgner]

nah, its just a releasing chaingrab. it happens with lucas/ness against some and wario against yoshi. i think snake has one on bowser too...

 

[SinkingHigher]

strange.

So how come sometimes samus/captain falcon/ganondorf jump sometimes?

On an interesting note, when they slide off the side of the stage, they go downwards quickly like when you get hit by the bottom of Zelda's F-smash. Ergo, when you get them to slide as zelda, you can go in for a spike. I'll add this to the Sheik guide.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Perhaps some characters grabs have similar properties of Yoshi's CG, it would be nice if Sheik does. Yoshi's grab seems to send many character airborne when released, and usually very easy to re-grab.

I do notice some characters do get released funny after a pummel, and when it happens for Sheik, we usually turn it into an Usmash or GRUST when we can (such as vs. Wario for a good example). Maybe we can do the same as Yoshi in a Grab Release, since Sheik definitely has the speed to to cover the ground necessary to grab again.

I will definitely test this out tomorrow with friends.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I managed to chain grab a lvl9 cpu Lucas by waiting a while before hitting.

If it worked on a lvl9, does that mean it's a surefire chain grab? I got 4 consecutive grabs before I missed it. (He did not jump once in the 5 times, just slid away.)

 

[Zankoku]

There are two criteria for which release happens - whether they break out mid-pummel, and whether their feet are on the ground. If EITHER of these criteria are satisfied, they will do a sliding break. If neither one is satisfied, they will do a jumping break.

 

[SinkingHigher]

So, does each character break after an exact amount of time if you do not pummel?

If so, we can learn to time it so that they always break out mid pummel and then chain-grabs will ensue.

From what I found after little testing, it seems all characters break out in just under 1 second. I was able to grab 30 times+ and only have 4 escapes jump-releases.

I think it may just work. Chain grabs for everyone!

Well, not yet. I still need to test this out at higher percentages. If someone has a video recording device and is willing, could you record the amount of frames it takes to release them at intervals of 10% on a small, medium and large character?

UPDATE: I've tested this out on 4 different characters so far. Lucas, Zelda, Bowser and someone else. I believe the escape times are preset. Now, if I can just record all the times, those percentages lists will finally be useful!


I found a nifty semi-combo worth adding to the guide.

If you time it right so that they slide at the edge, they will move downwards. Obviously you can move before them, so you can follow it up with a sweetspot b-air which should stage-spike.

 

[Zankoku]

Erm, you can mash buttons/control stick to make the grab break happen sooner, and the time it takes is longer based on the character's %. That's all I know.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Well, like I said someones gonna have to test. The best I got is a cpu.

 

[Zankoku]

Ugh.

I'm basically saying that the timing is unpredictable because it changes based on how high of a % it is and how good the opponent is at mashing out. You're better off just pummeling as fast as you can and hoping you get a sliding break as a result. Lucas (and Ness) can also DI enough to avoid an infinite regrab, but not an ftilt... so you're best off pummeling into a grab release to ftilt lock.

 

[SinkingHigher]

You sure like to huff and puff, don't you?

From what I can tell pummels have a similar effect to f-tilts. With proper timing they come out immediately after one another, making the margin for jump-releases really small, even if they mash.

Anyhow, if you find this irritating, you don't need to reply.

 

[Zankoku]

Asking to test a variable time is irritating. Asking for useful information is not.

I'm not sure of the exact window of time when it's counted as "pummeling" or not, but I do know that Sheik's is relatively slow compared to, say, Marth, who can make characters have practically zero chance of jumping out if he doesn't want them to.

 

[Scissors Sir]

Well I know I've noticed with samus if you grab mk and just let him release he slides

But if you grab and hit him at least once, samus slightly lifts her grabbing arm. Enough to where mk ends up getting jump released.

I don't know if other characters have that effect on their grab attack.

 

[The Great Leon]

I don't really think much will come from this.

 

[choknater]

leon's getting too good at posting

 

[The Great Leon]

I mean, chaingrabs that work are good cuz they're free damage. But timing your pummels to maybe put them on the ground (and they can DI away) isn't really viable. Sometimes you'll see this happen twice, but after that the victim won't let it happen again. Especially since break out time is incredibly variable. The effort and thinking is good, but sometimes people focus on the wrong things. We chaingrab because its free damage, not because we want to link grabs. Its kinda like crawl dashing and all that nonsense. Wavedashing was good because it was quick. Recreating slide effects in brawl will never be the same. IDK GUYS

 

[SinkingHigher]

Thanks for the feedback, I see what you mean about it being too unreliable.

Like I said though, it's just me and a cpu.

If anything, I think I atleast found a good way to possibly kill if you make them slide off the stage. From what I can tell that kind of slide has a footstool effect, but I think they may be able to attack just before you reach them. Still worth a try though, I mean, what's the worst that can happen?

 

[Booze Crooze]

if you're holding someone off the stage im pretty sure they always jump out. that would be cool if the little slide really screwed with some characters, but it seems it would be incredibly situational. that would be more of obscure game knowledge than a tech skill. i know one of my problems is that i always focused on pointless things instead of learning the basics of predicting/punishing. bravo for trying to learn new things but take it with a grain of salt? <3

love, the great leon

 

[SinkingHigher]

if you're holding someone off the stage im pretty sure they always jump out. that would be cool if the little slide really screwed with some characters, but it seems it would be incredibly situational. that would be more of obscure game knowledge than a tech skill. i know one of my problems is that i always focused on pointless things instead of learning the basics of predicting/punishing. bravo for trying to learn new things but take it with a grain of salt? <3

love, the great leon

Hahaha, thanks.

Even if their feet are off the stage they will still slide if you time it right.