theEffinBear
Smash Apprentice
Whenever you perform an up-B or a forward-B, Ganon is placed into a special state where he will lag fairly heavily on his next landing, even if he grabs a ledge or is hit before then. This sucks.
It's also a little bit complicated, hence this Hefty McPost here.
[size=+1]WHAT'S HAPPENING:[/size]
The effect of this "carryover landfall special" state is to disable the IASA property of a landing animation. The IASA (interruptible as soon as) property is what lets you use Ganondorf's u-smash and then perform (say) a jab before he finishes the u-smash ending animation, while his foot is still in the air. If you watch in slow motion, you'll see that Ganon is smoothly animated up until the jab starts, at which point there is a major discontinuity in the animation: the u-smash ending animation is abruptly replaced with jab startup animation. Some landings also have IASA frames, though it's less noticeable: if you perform a n-air right above the ground (so Ganondorf falls to his knee as he recovers during the landing) and hold shield, the "rising to feet" animation will be cut off and completely replaced with Ganondorf's "standing in bubble shield" animation. Ganondorf will start rising up a tiny bit, but just as his knee barely leaves the ground, you'll see him sorta "pop" into the following animation. If you give no controller input as Ganondorf rises from the n-air's landing lag, you will instead see him smoothly return to his feet. The same occurs when Ganondorf lands at neutral from the air: if you fastfall, Ganondorf lands with bent knees, but you can normally interrupt this animation after a few frames (~4 for a fastfall landing, I think).
[size=+1]SUMMARY:[/size]
If you are afflicted by carryover landfall state, then all IASA frames on landing animations are disabled. You will always be forced to wait through the entire landing animation and Ganondorf will not act on controller input until he finishes regaining his footing and stands at neutral. But not every landing has IASA frames, and correspondingly not every landing will use up the carryover "landfall special" state.
You are placed into the carryover state by doing any of the following:
• using up-B.
• using forward-B.
You can get out of the carryover state by performing a landing that would normally have IASA frames (or dying), which involves any of the following:
• landing at neutral from your regular midair state or airdodging.
• landing during the d-air, f-air, n-air, b-air, or u-air.
• landing while helpless from your up-B or your forward-B.
• hitting someone with a flying Murder Choke (BUT ONLY IF THE CARRYOVER STATE WAS CAUSED BY THAT FLYING MURDER CHOKE ITSELF).
• ...dying.
The following DO NOT get you out of the carryover state, despite what you would think:
• being hit.
• grabbing the ledge.
• hitting someone with the grab portion of the up-B.
• hitting someone with an aerial forward-B if you were already in the carryover state.
• landing while tumbling.
• landing during the down-B or neutral-B.
[size=+1]MORE IN-DEPTH:[/size]
There are exactly three different ways to get out of this state: dying, making a landing that should have had IASA frames, and a successful aerial Murder Choke (which has some very specific restrictions on it!).
1. Dying: I guess it's a good thing that the carryover landfall state doesn't persist through a death. Yeah.
Not really a great choice, here. The other two ways are better.
2. Landing while in control or helpless: "in control" means you landed in your regular midair state, which includes performing A-button aerials and air-dodges; "helpless" means you landed after an unsuccessful up-B or forward-B. So you must land while performing a {d-air, f-air, n-air, b-air, u-air}, land while airdodging, land while at neutral in midair, or land while helpless. If you do any of these things, then Ganondorf will go through the entire landing animation, lagging (i.e. not accepting controller input) until he returns to neutral. Landing from a non-fastfalled shorthop is, as far as I can tell, the quickest of these animations (if you land during an aerial's auto-cancel frames, it counts as landing at neutral, so Thunderstorming will count as a non-fastfalled shorthop), so you probably want to do that. Or you may use an aerial forward-B away from your opponent to make a bit of space, so you land while helpless and undergo the full landing lag when you're far enough away to be safe from your opponent.
IMPORTANT: down-B and neutral-B do NOT use up the carryover landfall state! If you ledgejump an aerial Murder Kick into the ground, or if you land during a Murder Fist, the landfall special state does not get used up. Same with landing while tumbling! If you are tumbling and you fall prone to the ground or you tech the landing, you are still afflicted with this carryover landfall state: falling prone and teching don't have IASA frames that can be disabled, so they have no effect on the carryover state.
[size=-2]Side note: my explanation treats Ganondorf's "helpless" landings as having (unobservable) IASA frames, but I'm going with that anyway because it simplifies the rest of my explanation.[/size]
3. A successful aerial Murder Choke: if you are NOT in the carryover state before hitting someone with the flying Murder Choke, you won't be in the carryover state afterwards. This is kinda good news! But if you ARE in the carryover state already, then a successful flying Murder Choke WILL NOT remove you from the carryover state (an unsuccessful one that makes you land helplessly WILL remove you from the state). Unfortunately the up-B always places you into the carryover state, regardless of what you do during or after it.
[size=+2]DETAILED EXAMPLES:[/size]
Here are a few example situations that may be helpful.
You are recover by grabbing the ledge with your up-B (CARRYOVER STATE ENTERED). You ledgejump and perform an aerial down-B, knocking your opponent a short distance away and landing (STILL IN CARRYOVER). You run after them and decide to do an empty shorthop that you fastfall, planning to grab them immediately on landing; you land (IASA FRAMES DISABLED, CARRYOVER BEING USED UP), but instead of grabbing immediately, Ganondorf stands there like an idiot for a while, and your opponent, who had been planning to shield-grab your aerial, grabs you anyway during your lag and pwns your face off.
HOW COULD THE FACE-REMOVING PWNAGE HAVE BEEN AVOIDED? Most easily, if you had done an empty shorthop right after landing from your aerial Murder Kick, you would have suffered the carryover landing lag right then while still safe.
The match starts and you attack with a barely-aerial forward-B (CARRYOVER START) and hit, slamming your opponent to the ground (SPECIAL CARRYOVER USED UP). They get up and you try it again (CARRYOVER START), but your opponent rolls behind you, so you land while helpless (CARRYOVER USED UP). You try the same thing a third time (CARRYOVER START) but this time your opponent predicts it and hits you upwards. You DI away and airdodge, landing on your feet (CARRYOVER USED UP), but instead of shielding, Ganondorf stands there, lagging, as your opponent again pwns your face off.
HOW COULD THE FACE-REMOVING PWNAGE HAVE BEEN AVOIDED? Getting hit out of an aerial Murder Choke sucks because you don't really have many options, though you could try an u-air or a n-air right before landing if they are close enough; the landing lag from the u-air or n-air aren't all that terrible even without the IASA frames, and since you're already going to suffer landing lag, you might try attacking first.
You grab the ledge with a forward-B (CARRYOVER START). You roll onto the stage and try to d-tilt your opponent, but they shield it and hit you back. You are knocked into the air, not tumbling, and land a short distance away (CARRYOVER USED UP), intending to jab immediately. But instead you lag through the whole landing animation, and yes, sadly, your regal George Washington face is again pwned off. In this case, their non-guaranteed string was turned into a mostly-guaranteed psuedo-combo because of your lack of IASA frames on landing.
HOW COULD THE FACE-REMOVING PWNAGE HAVE BEEN AVOIDED? It might have been a good idea to stay on the ledge until you could hit them far enough away to suffer your full landing lag in peace; if you're good enough at the ledgehopped airdodge, you could try that. But if you did get hit and they're trying to follow it up now, you could again try the u-air/n-air just before landing.
[size=+2]FIN:[/size]
I haven't tested this exhaustively, but I'm decently confident that this is how the annoying carryover landfall state works. I would assume that Captain Falcon and Marth's analogous states can be explained the same way (though their forward-B's are not grabs), as well as any other characters who are afflicted with this glitch.
Keep the carryover landfall state in mind as you recover or work your edge game; hopefully you'll be able to avoid my experience of finishing round 3 of a tourney match with a loss and being fully eliminated because of the carryover.
No carryover landfall state johns,
/RtEB
[size=-1]If anything is unclear, or if you've found something that disagrees with my results and hypothesis, please tell me. I don't have a video capture set-up, so I can't directly test the exact limits of the IASA frames and non-IASA landings, etc.[/size]
It's also a little bit complicated, hence this Hefty McPost here.
[size=+1]WHAT'S HAPPENING:[/size]
The effect of this "carryover landfall special" state is to disable the IASA property of a landing animation. The IASA (interruptible as soon as) property is what lets you use Ganondorf's u-smash and then perform (say) a jab before he finishes the u-smash ending animation, while his foot is still in the air. If you watch in slow motion, you'll see that Ganon is smoothly animated up until the jab starts, at which point there is a major discontinuity in the animation: the u-smash ending animation is abruptly replaced with jab startup animation. Some landings also have IASA frames, though it's less noticeable: if you perform a n-air right above the ground (so Ganondorf falls to his knee as he recovers during the landing) and hold shield, the "rising to feet" animation will be cut off and completely replaced with Ganondorf's "standing in bubble shield" animation. Ganondorf will start rising up a tiny bit, but just as his knee barely leaves the ground, you'll see him sorta "pop" into the following animation. If you give no controller input as Ganondorf rises from the n-air's landing lag, you will instead see him smoothly return to his feet. The same occurs when Ganondorf lands at neutral from the air: if you fastfall, Ganondorf lands with bent knees, but you can normally interrupt this animation after a few frames (~4 for a fastfall landing, I think).
[size=+1]SUMMARY:[/size]
If you are afflicted by carryover landfall state, then all IASA frames on landing animations are disabled. You will always be forced to wait through the entire landing animation and Ganondorf will not act on controller input until he finishes regaining his footing and stands at neutral. But not every landing has IASA frames, and correspondingly not every landing will use up the carryover "landfall special" state.
You are placed into the carryover state by doing any of the following:
• using up-B.
• using forward-B.
You can get out of the carryover state by performing a landing that would normally have IASA frames (or dying), which involves any of the following:
• landing at neutral from your regular midair state or airdodging.
• landing during the d-air, f-air, n-air, b-air, or u-air.
• landing while helpless from your up-B or your forward-B.
• hitting someone with a flying Murder Choke (BUT ONLY IF THE CARRYOVER STATE WAS CAUSED BY THAT FLYING MURDER CHOKE ITSELF).
• ...dying.
The following DO NOT get you out of the carryover state, despite what you would think:
• being hit.
• grabbing the ledge.
• hitting someone with the grab portion of the up-B.
• hitting someone with an aerial forward-B if you were already in the carryover state.
• landing while tumbling.
• landing during the down-B or neutral-B.
[size=+1]MORE IN-DEPTH:[/size]
There are exactly three different ways to get out of this state: dying, making a landing that should have had IASA frames, and a successful aerial Murder Choke (which has some very specific restrictions on it!).
1. Dying: I guess it's a good thing that the carryover landfall state doesn't persist through a death. Yeah.
Not really a great choice, here. The other two ways are better.
2. Landing while in control or helpless: "in control" means you landed in your regular midair state, which includes performing A-button aerials and air-dodges; "helpless" means you landed after an unsuccessful up-B or forward-B. So you must land while performing a {d-air, f-air, n-air, b-air, u-air}, land while airdodging, land while at neutral in midair, or land while helpless. If you do any of these things, then Ganondorf will go through the entire landing animation, lagging (i.e. not accepting controller input) until he returns to neutral. Landing from a non-fastfalled shorthop is, as far as I can tell, the quickest of these animations (if you land during an aerial's auto-cancel frames, it counts as landing at neutral, so Thunderstorming will count as a non-fastfalled shorthop), so you probably want to do that. Or you may use an aerial forward-B away from your opponent to make a bit of space, so you land while helpless and undergo the full landing lag when you're far enough away to be safe from your opponent.
IMPORTANT: down-B and neutral-B do NOT use up the carryover landfall state! If you ledgejump an aerial Murder Kick into the ground, or if you land during a Murder Fist, the landfall special state does not get used up. Same with landing while tumbling! If you are tumbling and you fall prone to the ground or you tech the landing, you are still afflicted with this carryover landfall state: falling prone and teching don't have IASA frames that can be disabled, so they have no effect on the carryover state.
[size=-2]Side note: my explanation treats Ganondorf's "helpless" landings as having (unobservable) IASA frames, but I'm going with that anyway because it simplifies the rest of my explanation.[/size]
3. A successful aerial Murder Choke: if you are NOT in the carryover state before hitting someone with the flying Murder Choke, you won't be in the carryover state afterwards. This is kinda good news! But if you ARE in the carryover state already, then a successful flying Murder Choke WILL NOT remove you from the carryover state (an unsuccessful one that makes you land helplessly WILL remove you from the state). Unfortunately the up-B always places you into the carryover state, regardless of what you do during or after it.
[size=+2]DETAILED EXAMPLES:[/size]
Here are a few example situations that may be helpful.
You are recover by grabbing the ledge with your up-B (CARRYOVER STATE ENTERED). You ledgejump and perform an aerial down-B, knocking your opponent a short distance away and landing (STILL IN CARRYOVER). You run after them and decide to do an empty shorthop that you fastfall, planning to grab them immediately on landing; you land (IASA FRAMES DISABLED, CARRYOVER BEING USED UP), but instead of grabbing immediately, Ganondorf stands there like an idiot for a while, and your opponent, who had been planning to shield-grab your aerial, grabs you anyway during your lag and pwns your face off.
HOW COULD THE FACE-REMOVING PWNAGE HAVE BEEN AVOIDED? Most easily, if you had done an empty shorthop right after landing from your aerial Murder Kick, you would have suffered the carryover landing lag right then while still safe.
The match starts and you attack with a barely-aerial forward-B (CARRYOVER START) and hit, slamming your opponent to the ground (SPECIAL CARRYOVER USED UP). They get up and you try it again (CARRYOVER START), but your opponent rolls behind you, so you land while helpless (CARRYOVER USED UP). You try the same thing a third time (CARRYOVER START) but this time your opponent predicts it and hits you upwards. You DI away and airdodge, landing on your feet (CARRYOVER USED UP), but instead of shielding, Ganondorf stands there, lagging, as your opponent again pwns your face off.
HOW COULD THE FACE-REMOVING PWNAGE HAVE BEEN AVOIDED? Getting hit out of an aerial Murder Choke sucks because you don't really have many options, though you could try an u-air or a n-air right before landing if they are close enough; the landing lag from the u-air or n-air aren't all that terrible even without the IASA frames, and since you're already going to suffer landing lag, you might try attacking first.
You grab the ledge with a forward-B (CARRYOVER START). You roll onto the stage and try to d-tilt your opponent, but they shield it and hit you back. You are knocked into the air, not tumbling, and land a short distance away (CARRYOVER USED UP), intending to jab immediately. But instead you lag through the whole landing animation, and yes, sadly, your regal George Washington face is again pwned off. In this case, their non-guaranteed string was turned into a mostly-guaranteed psuedo-combo because of your lack of IASA frames on landing.
HOW COULD THE FACE-REMOVING PWNAGE HAVE BEEN AVOIDED? It might have been a good idea to stay on the ledge until you could hit them far enough away to suffer your full landing lag in peace; if you're good enough at the ledgehopped airdodge, you could try that. But if you did get hit and they're trying to follow it up now, you could again try the u-air/n-air just before landing.
[size=+2]FIN:[/size]
I haven't tested this exhaustively, but I'm decently confident that this is how the annoying carryover landfall state works. I would assume that Captain Falcon and Marth's analogous states can be explained the same way (though their forward-B's are not grabs), as well as any other characters who are afflicted with this glitch.
Keep the carryover landfall state in mind as you recover or work your edge game; hopefully you'll be able to avoid my experience of finishing round 3 of a tourney match with a loss and being fully eliminated because of the carryover.
No carryover landfall state johns,
/RtEB
[size=-1]If anything is unclear, or if you've found something that disagrees with my results and hypothesis, please tell me. I don't have a video capture set-up, so I can't directly test the exact limits of the IASA frames and non-IASA landings, etc.[/size]
